Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position

[RuudTom83]

I don't like to look at the table until at least 10 games have been played. The best time to evaluate is after 19 games.

But as it stands United are a whopping 4 points off the 5th CL spot with 30 games to go. Sometimes you just need to ignore the noise from the media and relax.

City have been beaten by Wolves, Newcastle and Arsenal in the last few weeks...no one is immune to shit form.

If United can get their act together soon then the season can still be a good one.

 

[Toshey]

The truth is we should have won against Spurs and Arsenal. Got extremely unlucky in both games.

Had we won them, the noise around United would have been different.

Hope we'll hit form after international break and capitalise on it with a win against City.

 

[cpresc]

People can perform all sorts of mental gymnastics, try to find glimmer of hope based on last weekend or the multiple turning points, the stark reality staring at us is that ETH is not it.

There are plenty of issues:

(1) The most important thing needed to get us back to the top is the recruitment.

There has be far more hits than misses. Under him (and we can blame the management team all we want) the players signed are far from being good enough to get back us to level needed to compete with City, forget Liverpool and Arsenal, who seem to have go their act together.

It's quite surprising too as when he first came, ETH mentioned in his interviews that how he is taken note from Pep's mention of the physicality you need in your team to succeed in the premier league. But since then he has gone on to recruit Martinez, Antony, Malacia, Mount etc....who are not overly physical players and get rag dolled too easily. Martinez's desire, ball playing skills, defensive nous are things to be admired but even then he can't be the starting CB for a side looking to reach the top. He either will have to form a part of a three man defense or becomes a hybrid FB in the Zinchenko/Trent mold. The less said about the others the better. Antony is a not a United standard player; he is worse than Depay. Mount is a pointless signing. Malacia is a Buttner reincarnation. Weghorst was the worst striker I have seen in a United shirt. Amrabat looks like the typical midfield plodder from the Serie A without too may qualities (he is stupid too...what's with the handling of the ball when he is on the ground?), Eriksen is a good signing but the kind you make to complement the squad, not as a starter.

Onana is an outfield player masquerading as a keeper. People can sight lack of confidence, adjustment to the league or whatever but the guy has got a terrible technique for a keeper. Is clueless on what to do in one on one situations. Is a poor stop stopper. And his much hailed ball playing ability leaves a lot to be desired too.

On top of bad signings, we have made wrong signings for the second summer window running. We earlier used to get the past it former superstars (Bastian fecking Schweinsteiger!) for free or for low fee, but this time we paid 60m rising to 70m for a 30 year old on his last legs to play DM in one of the most physical leagues in the world. We needed a striker as a top priority last season but we paid 3x his actual value to get Antony. We needed two proper CM's this season - a back up to Casemiro and a proper metronome to play alongside him, an Eriksen upgrade - but instead we somehow recruited Mason Mount and Amrabat. A non CM and a poor poor back up for Case.

Not all of this stupidity is on ETH, but from his familiarity with these players, it seems he has played a pretty big role in demanding and getting them.

(2) He doesn't know how to rotate.

He ran the main players to the ground last year; that too in a WC year with players experiencing an extra-ordinary work load. Look at our main players last season - Martinez, Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro - all of them either injured or woefully out of form. Last season, their bck-ups only came to the fore when one of them was injured. Whenever not injured, they played in the league, in the league cup, the FA cup, Europa....even against shit opposition they started most of the games. I don't remember the opponent but Eriksen could have been easily rested in the game he was assaulted by Andy Carroll. He hasn't been the same player since then. Martinez was played in games this season even though he had not fully recovered from the stress injury he sustained last season. Shaw either played FB or CB, but hardly ever rested. Same for Rashford, Casemiro and Fernandez.

It's no surprise that all of them struggling this season.

(3) Last and the most important - his football is too risk averse and simply not good enough.

The football reminds me of the dark days of VG. It's slow, ponderous, lacks ideas and relies too much on individual brilliance. How many chances do we create? How many times in a game do we trouble the opposition keeper?

Our build-up is painfully slow. It's passing between the defenders and the midfield before we run out of ideas. Then we either pass it back or give it away. Or we simply hoof the ball. What was the point of getting this "Ball playing keeper" if we still hoof it more than 50% of the times and are so bad at winning second balls? How come after almost 90 (league, cups and pre-season) games we still don't know how to play out from the back? Why can't we string more than 3 passes together before giving it to the opposition?

"We want to become the best transition team in the world" - Transition teams play fast football and are excellent at winning the ball back. In fact, you can't become a transition team if you cannot win the ball back quickly. I can understand playing low percentage balls in order to find your fast attackers, but then you also have to win the ball quickly if that low % pass doesn't work out. Due to our inability to press in sync and win the ball back, we actually end up making every opposition team "the best transition team in the world". Even relegation candidates like Forest or Wolves can come to our home and cut through us at will.

Folks will say these things take time or injury excuses or whatever but after 90 games you should be able to see some green shoots towards ultimately reaching your goal of playing competent football. So far, the only thing I can see is our return to bad days of VG football when we could neither defend nor score goals.

A last minute win (as ecstatic as it was in the moment) by hoofing it to the new Fellaini is not going to change the fact that ETH hasn't been able to implement any kind of playing style so far. And yes, 3rd place and a league cup.....the most expensively assembled and the most handsomely paid staff in the world can achieve those based on individual brilliance or small periods of good play - we have done it regularly over the last 11 years by winning multiple cups and multiple top 4 finishes under various managers - but it still doesn't take us to the promised land. We can get top 4 in the league when other teams are having an off year or we can win a cup competition, but the fact remains that we are no way near building a team or a style play that gets us back to being a top club, who is constantly in the running for top honors.

It's just a feeling of despair after seeing 11 years of continuous failure - wrong people in-charge, wrong managers and wrong players. I am posting here after a long long time and don't know when will I post again. I just needed to vent my frustration.

The club, Old Trafford, Sir Alex, us fans - we all deserve better. May be the new owners, whenever the club is sold, will be able completely overhaul the system and get competent people in charge to end this horrific nightmare. Hope springs eternal!

I stopped reading after the bolded bit..

 

[SER19]

Only results change things. The start we had last season was awful and we managed to rally for a few months. I think we have to beat sheffield untied and City after the international break, as well as copenhagen twice, for this season to be salvaged. Win those and the look of everything changes- im not concerned about the league cup now

 

[the_cliff]

The thing that worries me the most about this season is the movement of the wingers. Our 2 wingers just stay wide and hardly ever make the cutting runs that Liverpool/Arsenal/City and now even Spurs make. Was at the game on Saturday and the amount of times Amrabat/Bruno/Eriksen had the ball in central positions and Garnacho/Mount/Rashford/Antony just hugging the by line instead of being played through is ridiculous. There were plenty of opportunities in the second half for Rashford and Garnacho to be played through the space between the CB and the RB and instead just stayed wide and were left with 2 men to beat. Brentford weren't even particularly deep and there was decent space there.

 

[gaffs]

I just wonder if questioning the teams desire publicly is helping or hindering?

Ten Hag hits out at Manchester United squad after dramatic win - ESPN

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here," Ten Hag said.

"Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility.

"In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch.

We have seen the best managers, Fergie or Jose at Chelsea for example, create that bubble where they protect their players and create the us v them mentality.
Ten Hag is going the other way and publicly questioning the ability to handle pressure, their work rate, their desire, even on the back of a win. Then you have the singling out of individuals.

Especially with a depleted team, wouldn't it be better to try galvanizing them, rather than publicly criticizing their efforts, even if he may have a point.

If the players feel the tactics and methods from Ten Hag are not working, then the public criticism is only going to create division and disillusionment.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Well, when I heard those comments Onana was the first to come to mind. But I'm sure he knows what hes doing....

 

[Shane88]

I just wonder if questioning the teams desire publicly is helping or hindering?

Ten Hag hits out at Manchester United squad after dramatic win - ESPN

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here," Ten Hag said.

"Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility.

"In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch.

We have seen the best managers, Fergie or Jose at Chelsea for example, create that bubble where they protect their players and create the us v them mentality.
Ten Hag is going the other way and publicly questioning the ability to handle pressure, their work rate, their desire, even on the back of a win. Then you have the singling out of individuals.

Especially with a depleted team, wouldn't it be better to try galvanizing them, rather than publicly criticizing their efforts, even if he may have a point.

If the players feel the tactics and methods from Ten Hag are not working, then the public criticism is only going to create division and disillusionment.

Solskjaer coddled them. They treated Rangnick like the sub teacher. Many of them have had years of it being easy.

I have no issues with Ten Hag calling them out.

 

[bosnian_red]

The thing that worries me the most about this season is the movement of the wingers. Our 2 wingers just stay wide and hardly ever make the cutting runs that Liverpool/Arsenal/City and now even Spurs make. Was at the game on Saturday and the amount of times Amrabat/Bruno/Eriksen had the ball in central positions and Garnacho/Mount/Rashford/Antony just hugging the by line instead of being played through is ridiculous. There were plenty of opportunities in the second half for Rashford and Garnacho to be played through the space between the CB and the RB and instead just stayed wide and were left with 2 men to beat. Brentford weren't even particularly deep and there was decent space there.

I would say the complete opposite tbh. A massive problem in the game and previous games has been we don't have players holding width, but are almost late to run wide. We aren't stretching teams. We aren't provide options wide and aiming to play down the flanks to provide cut backs, but instead are trying to play through between the width of the box, making it easy to defend against. We aren't having our wingers go 1 on 1 against fullbacks and take them on, and we aren't overlapping. Our best moments came when we do get Dalot overlapping or whoever on the left pushing forward.

A key feature to City and Arsenal especially is how they focus their play down the flanks. They overload wide areas, have underlapping or overlapping runs to combine and create openings, get into the box from wide areas to then have an easier angle to pick out somebody in the box. We don't do this.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Well, when I heard those comments Onana was the first to come to mind. But I'm sure he knows what hes doing....

I wish I shared your confidence. Onana is a pretty average keeper who was available on a free last summer. Reya is a better keeper and it seems we didnt even look at him. Half the team are his signings and most are poor. We are already seeing plenty of stories he has lost the dressing room, some mentioning his constant criticism. Cant see this helps

 

[Longlivekeano]

I feel United is currently where Arsenal was 4-5 years ago. Where squad seemed to have no fixed identity and the best players strangely seem to be the younger ones like a 17 year old Saka, smith Rowe whereas the older, more expensive stars (Pepe, aubemeyang) or ageing stars (Giroud) were badly underperforming. It took them several years to ship out all the bad eggs and aged stars; and then to allow the younger ones time to develop, mature. Think we also need to do that with our own team.

 

[Baxquux]

I wish I shared your confidence. Onana is a pretty average keeper who was available on a free last summer. Reya is a better keeper and it seems we didnt even look at him. Half the team are his signings and most are poor. We are already seeing plenty of stories he has lost the dressing room, some mentioning his constant criticism. Cant see this helps

Setting aside the rest, this isn't true. Inter had already agreed a deal with him before ETH had even agreed to become United manager.

Meanwhile, Reya was discussed on here prior to Onana signing, and people pulled up stats in Onana's favour when it came to expected goals conceded vs actual goals conceded. In terms of sweeper-keepers, Onana also had reputation as, if anything, a better passer. He's made a couple of genuine blunders, but given injuries and imo issues with the set-up (including coaching, arguably) , he's often had bad passing options or had to face more pressure through our being turned-over so easily. Finally, De Gea was awful when he first came in, and into a steadier side with top drawer defenders; jury has to be out on Onana for the moment.

 

[Ubik]

I just wonder if questioning the teams desire publicly is helping or hindering?

Ten Hag hits out at Manchester United squad after dramatic win - ESPN

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here," Ten Hag said.

"Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility.

"In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch.

We have seen the best managers, Fergie or Jose at Chelsea for example, create that bubble where they protect their players and create the us v them mentality.
Ten Hag is going the other way and publicly questioning the ability to handle pressure, their work rate, their desire, even on the back of a win. Then you have the singling out of individuals.

Especially with a depleted team, wouldn't it be better to try galvanizing them, rather than publicly criticizing their efforts, even if he may have a point.

If the players feel the tactics and methods from Ten Hag are not working, then the public criticism is only going to create division and disillusionment.

He got asked whether players were struggling to handle the pressure of United. It's true that at times this year we've been outfought and lost concentration, and it's true that half the squad were here during the disgrace of the season that was 21/22.

 

[Telsim]

Finally got around to watching the Tifo video, and it pretty much sums up what we've been seeing. Confused and lazy players, and naive and predictable tactics. We are just... shite. Hopefully, this gets better as the injury list gets shorter, but if we continue to play like this, any top 10 team will splatter us with little issue. As has already been the case.

 

[gaffs]

He got asked whether players were struggling to handle the pressure of United. It's true that at times this year we've been outfought and lost concentration, and it's true that half the squad were here during the disgrace of the season that was 21/22.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but question the is, why always put the onus/blame/pressure on the players?

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here,"

"they have to take responsibility."

"we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. "

Always seems to be Ten Hag pointing the finger at the players, as opposed to taking responsibility himself.

 

[Blood Mage]

I don't like to look at the table until at least 10 games have been played. The best time to evaluate is after 19 games.

But as it stands United are a whopping 4 points off the 5th CL spot with 30 games to go. Sometimes you just need to ignore the noise from the media and relax.

City have been beaten by Wolves, Newcastle and Arsenal in the last few weeks...no one is immune to shit form.

If United can get their act together soon then the season can still be a good one.

How can you ignore how fecking poor we've been though? It's not the results or points tally that worries me it's the way we're playing. Ten Hag has been here for well over a year now, no excuses for us being this disjointed and tactically clueless.

 

[MayfieldsFinest]

Sacking Ten Hag would be crazy and he would most certainly come back to haunt us. I do think however that he needs a proper DOF to work with.

We also need some luck, just a little.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Sacking Ten Hag would be crazy and he would most certainly come back to haunt us. I do think however that he needs a proper DOF to work with.

We also need some luck, just a little.

Taking last season into account he's been okay, but we should be keeping an eye on the market. We'd be fools not to.

 

[the_cliff]

I would say the complete opposite tbh. A massive problem in the game and previous games has been we don't have players holding width, but are almost late to run wide. We aren't stretching teams. We aren't provide options wide and aiming to play down the flanks to provide cut backs, but instead are trying to play through between the width of the box, making it easy to defend against. We aren't having our wingers go 1 on 1 against fullbacks and take them on, and we aren't overlapping. Our best moments came when we do get Dalot overlapping or whoever on the left pushing forward.

A key feature to City and Arsenal especially is how they focus their play down the flanks. They overload wide areas, have underlapping or overlapping runs to combine and create openings, get into the box from wide areas to then have an easier angle to pick out somebody in the box. We don't do this.

I wasn't talking in transition, I was talking about when we are in possession and have the opposition pegged back like the last 20 mins on Saturday. When we are controlling the ball and have it in front of the oppositions low bloc. We just stand in front with barely any movement and all players static we don't have anyone (other than Dalot) who tries to make penetrative runs into the box. The wingers just hold the width, Hojlund in front of the 2 cbs and Bruno/Eriksen/Amrabat in front of their midfield 2 or 3. Another example is the game against Crystal Palace. The movement of the ball between the midfielders is good, let's say we have it on the right wing and move it to the other side, Rashford or Garnacho are just wide not trying to make inside runs so we depend too much on our wide payers beating 2 men and getting a shot or cross in instead of midfielders playing them in, It's too easy to defend against which is why we look like we'll never score.

EDIT: I just realised we're talking about the same problem. By runs inside I mean the wingers making the runs between the CB and the fullback providing a cutback or 1 v 1 opportunity. Our wingers just stay wide and in front of the defence almost as if they are right and left attacking midfielders. I was at the game on Saturday and there was an opportunity where Bruno had the ball on the left and we all screamed at Rashford to make the run in between the full back and CB and instead he just held his width on the left of Bruno and received the ball to feet, too wide and with 2 players to beat....

 

[Ubik]

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but question the is, why always put the onus/blame/pressure on the players?

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here,"

"they have to take responsibility."

"we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. "

Always seems to be Ten Hag pointing the finger at the players, as opposed to taking responsibility himself.

He says he's responsible right here in the pre-match one (4:23 if the auto-start doesn't work)


Problem is people pick and choose one line without any context and fit it into whatever they already thought.

 

[Maticmaker]

I have no issues with Ten Hag calling them out.

Neither have I, what else should a manager do when required to make appearances before the press, tell lies, pretend that those watching/ listening are all stupid and cannot see the performances? Yes, on occasions, in such situations SAF would deflect attention onto himself, when things were bad, but this was after he had won everything there was to be won and his position was unassailable.
ETH is only in his second year and its clear some players are letting him down, some because they are new to the pressures of playing for the club, others have lost form and some are just 'rinsing and repeating' and expecting things to sort themselves. Injuries aside there are clear signs that some players are attempting to live on their reputations.

In top professional football 'playing for the shirt' and 'you are only as good as your last game' are somewhat old fashioned concepts, but never more true than at OT these days.

 

[RuudTom83]

The manager is giving 8-10 interviews a week to different channels, I really doubt the players gather around to listen to every one, and are that emotionally invested in them to be affected by what is said.

The amount of pampering and excuses given for the players not performing gets silly at times.

 

[RuudTom83]

How can you ignore how fecking poor we've been though? It's not the results or points tally that worries me it's the way we're playing. Ten Hag has been here for well over a year now, no excuses for us being this disjointed and tactically clueless.

Hence why I said...

If United can get their act together soon then the season can still be a good one.

I doubt anyone on the Cafe is raving about the current form. But as the team is only 4 points off the CL places all it not lost.

 

[RedC]

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but question the is, why always put the onus/blame/pressure on the players?

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here,"

"they have to take responsibility."

"we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. "

Always seems to be Ten Hag pointing the finger at the players, as opposed to taking responsibility himself.

Do you know what the questions asked were for those responses? This is the thing with randomly grabbing quotes, if he was asked if he thinks the players can't handle the pressure of playing for Utd, then that is a nothing response.

 

[MrMarcello]

I just wonder if questioning the teams desire publicly is helping or hindering?

Ten Hag hits out at Manchester United squad after dramatic win - ESPN

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here," Ten Hag said.

"Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility.

"In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch.

We have seen the best managers, Fergie or Jose at Chelsea for example, create that bubble where they protect their players and create the us v them mentality.
Ten Hag is going the other way and publicly questioning the ability to handle pressure, their work rate, their desire, even on the back of a win. Then you have the singling out of individuals.

Especially with a depleted team, wouldn't it be better to try galvanizing them, rather than publicly criticizing their efforts, even if he may have a point.

If the players feel the tactics and methods from Ten Hag are not working, then the public criticism is only going to create division and disillusionment.

It's an era thing in my view. Ferguson and Mourinho also had far better collection of talents at their disposal in your scenario, players who were willing to run through walls to win. Their players had high football IQ and played as a cohesive unit with little to zero self doubts.

Compare that to Mourinho's stint with United and subsequent managers at the club - a bunch of individuals in the teams and plenty with low football IQ. I don't think you can coach low football IQ types into a cohesive winning unit, while individualists can fit in when the whole squad can paper over the cracks. With the wages some of the current United players earn they can piss about in training and games, then whine to management and social media. They know they're safe - no other club will pay the same wages, the Glazers/Murtough hold out for a few extra million in transfer fees which fails often, and they can easily sit out while collecting their millions. Most are probably in the mind they'll be at the club longer than any manager, rinse and repeat when a managerial change is made.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'm seeing a lot of posters asking to bench Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro etc but I have Mount just behind Rashford who needs to be dropped. Bruno needs to play in a more forward, central position and I'd have Casemiro and Amrabat behind him especially for away matches. If Bruno is playing poorly bring Mount on.

I'm excited to see what Mainoo offers in midfield and hope he challenges for a starting spot.

I mean Casemiro and Amrabat behind Bruno is just the worlds worst dribbling midfield ever. Unless you plan on us sitting deep and going full counter attack.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

ETH can’t bench everybody and I’d wonder how much that would really help to be honest.

There’s so many issues at the club and players , that on its own is a good explanation as to why things aren’t working out, that aren’t down to tactics or coaching or ETH being a major reason for the awful form.

But an interesting one seldom discussed is the amount of games United played last season. I think I read we played more games then pool did the season before when they goto all the cup finals.

And last season Pool started the season with the following Before the wc

P14 W6 D4 L4

Two of their defeats were to Leeds and Forrest.

Now last season United played more games than pool and had a World Cup mid season and yet we don’t get any consideration allowed when pool themselves had a terrible start to last season.

“Klopp deserves benefit” doesn’t actually matter, if a squad is knackered because of games played, then it’s not the managers fault.

And you add all the other sh*te that ETH is managing (that Klopp didn’t last season) and I’d argue people are taking the piss and not really factoring in all the things that are working against ETH and our team this season.

 

[gaffs]

It's an era thing in my view. Ferguson and Mourinho also had far better collection of talents at their disposal in your scenario, players who were willing to run through walls to win. Their players had high football IQ and played as a cohesive unit with little to zero self doubts.

Compare that to Mourinho's stint with United and subsequent managers at the club - a bunch of individuals in the teams and plenty with low football IQ. I don't think you can coach low football IQ types into a cohesive winning unit, while individualists can fit in when the whole squad can paper over the cracks. With the wages some of the current United players earn they can piss about in training and games, then whine to management and social media. They know they're safe - no other club will pay the same wages, the Glazers/Murtough hold out for a few extra million in transfer fees which fails often, and they can easily sit out while collecting their millions. Most are probably in the mind they'll be at the club longer than any manager, rinse and repeat when a managerial change is made.

Spurs last season. You would probably say that same thing - a lot of "low football IQ types" with a manager calling them out. In comes a new manager with a distinct style and a positive attitude and after 8 games, they are top of the league.

There may be some truth to say that some in United's squad have an attitude issue. One has been frozen out already. I believe that most want to win though. Regardless of current form, Rashford or Bruno desperately want to compete for a title at United. You saw what it meant to McTominay - the guy loves the club regardless of him being benched for the past few weeks.

I worry that the Ten Hag methods are not working on the pitch or in training - there are signs of this in our team setup, non-existing pressing scheme and team shape.
I think the players know it and he is compounding the issue by calling out their desire.

 

[Pronewbie]

I mean Casemiro and Amrabat behind Bruno is just the worlds worst dribbling midfield ever. Unless you plan on us sitting deep and going full counter attack.

Ten Hag's already said that we're playing transition football this season and I'd like to see us get back to basics defensively. Especially for away games, like I'd mentioned.

Nothing I've seen of Mount at Chelsea and United suggests that he is a good dribbler or even ball carrier. In fact he's probably on par with Bruno based on this quick google result: https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-manchester-united-chelsea-comparison-2021-22

Amrabat has already shown to be more press resistant than Mount and also more suitable defensively and in the build-up - yet another reason why I find the Mount signing extremely befuddling and that we didn't sign a Gavi/Pedri/De Jong type CM. Amrabat was always supposed to be a squad rotation player. I hope Mainoo comes good.

 

[ti vu]

Spurs last season. You would probably say that same thing - a lot of "low football IQ types" with a manager calling them out. In comes a new manager with a distinct style and a positive attitude and after 8 games, they are top of the league.

There may be some truth to say that some in United's squad have an attitude issue. One has been frozen out already. I believe that most want to win though. Regardless of current form, Rashford or Bruno desperately want to compete for a title at United. You saw what it meant to McTominay - the guy loves the club regardless of him being benched for the past few weeks.

I worry that the Ten Hag methods are not working on the pitch or in training - there are signs of this in our team setup, non-existing pressing scheme and team shape.
I think the players know it and he is compounding the issue by calling out their desire.

Tottenham as example especially when you even mentioned it's only 8 game is as knee jerking as it gets. Tottenham was eliminated from Carabao Cup early. They're not playing in Europe at all this season. They're very much fresher than a host of other teams having to take other competitions serious. Conte's complaint partially about their squad depth as his ambition is to push for other competitions. Last season, after 8 games, they're only 3 points off their current point tally. Sure they had tougher fixture list this season, and it has been impressive. However, the league is never a sprint. It's a marathon, so let's wait until the end of the season. Let's see how "history of Tottenham" change or simply continue. One thing for sure, Tottenham is never known for being resilient under pressure.

ETH did quite decently in his first season, and the pressure here is a different beast to Tottenham.

 

[Shark]

Spurs last season. You would probably say that same thing - a lot of "low football IQ types" with a manager calling them out. In comes a new manager with a distinct style and a positive attitude and after 8 games, they are top of the league.

There may be some truth to say that some in United's squad have an attitude issue. One has been frozen out already. I believe that most want to win though. Regardless of current form, Rashford or Bruno desperately want to compete for a title at United. You saw what it meant to McTominay - the guy loves the club regardless of him being benched for the past few weeks.

I worry that the Ten Hag methods are not working on the pitch or in training - there are signs of this in our team setup, non-existing pressing scheme and team shape.
I think the players know it and he is compounding the issue by calling out their desire.

After 8 games, yeah. ETH has already had a full season with us and achieved 3rd and a trophy, so this Spurs comparison is just becoming stupid.

 

[RuudTom83]

@Chumpsbechumps

Yeah 100% they are genuine reasons to explain United's form this season. Its not just making excuses for the manager.

Also I love the excuses being made for City because they have to play a few games without Rodri...the treble winners having to play without 1 player!!!

Try having the entire first choice defence out injured, and when Martinez has been available he's been playing while recovering from broken bones in his foot.

 

[el3mel]

I just wonder if questioning the teams desire publicly is helping or hindering?

Ten Hag hits out at Manchester United squad after dramatic win - ESPN

"When you can't handle the pressure, don't play here," Ten Hag said.

"Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility.

"In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch.

We have seen the best managers, Fergie or Jose at Chelsea for example, create that bubble where they protect their players and create the us v them mentality.
Ten Hag is going the other way and publicly questioning the ability to handle pressure, their work rate, their desire, even on the back of a win. Then you have the singling out of individuals.

Especially with a depleted team, wouldn't it be better to try galvanizing them, rather than publicly criticizing their efforts, even if he may have a point.

If the players feel the tactics and methods from Ten Hag are not working, then the public criticism is only going to create division and disillusionment.

I don't have an issue with criticizing players in public but the guy keeps on blaming everything and everyone to absolve himself from the blame despite being shit at his job as well. Maybe acknowledge the fact you shoulder responsibility for our crap form.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Yeah it's unfortunate unlike City we haven't got the quality in depth to drop any of those 3. I wish we had because think it would actually put the fire into them again. They don't feel under any pressure for their places is the problem

You don't think we can drop any of those 3?!

I'd put Amrabat in for Case and Garnacho in for Rashford. And let Bruno fight it out with Mount for the number 10 spot, don't shunt either of them out to the right where they're next to useless.

We've lost half our premier league games and all our champions league games with those 3 starting, it could only improve surely.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't have an issue with criticizing players in public but the guy keeps on blaming everything and everyone to absolve himself from the blame despite being shit at his job as well. Maybe acknowledge the fact you shoulder responsibility for our crap form.

I mean he says ‘we’ all the time. Do you need him to spell it out to you or something? His whole style seems to be about him being culpable (hence the run story) and everyone having to buy in.

 

[VP89]

I don't have an issue with criticizing players in public but the guy keeps on blaming everything and everyone to absolve himself from the blame despite being shit at his job as well. Maybe acknowledge the fact you shoulder responsibility for our crap form.

It's so obvious you don't actually watch his press conferences.

 

[AshRK]

It's so obvious you don't actually watch his press conferences.

Half of them don't but just love to come and cricize him or the club. Tomorrow if he says sky is blue , people will say he is just protecting himself.

 

[AshRK]

I mean he says ‘we’ all the time. Do you need him to spell it out to you or something? His whole style seems to be about him being culpable (hence the run story) and everyone having to buy in.

You are wrong, he should just blame himself. Players should not be questioned, they are mentally weak so we have to protect them. Let us keep on protecting the players and just put everything on the manager and keep sacking them.

 

[VP89]

Half of them don't but just love to come and cricize him or the club. Tomorrow if he says sky is blue , people will say he is just protecting himself.

Can you imagine a manager, literally any other manager Zidane or Pep or Ancelotti say "if you can't handle pressure you shouldn't play for United. It's eat or be eaten in the Premier League" - and think anyone would bat an eye lid? No.

But some posters, especially that one, just wait for the manager to breathe and try to feck him over

 

[tomaldinho1]

You are wrong, he should just blame himself. Players should not be questioned, they are mentally weak so we have to protect them. Let us keep on protecting the players and just put everything on the manager and keep sacking them.

It would actually be really funny if he just answered every question about a negative subject with, ‘my fault lads, no excuses’ and that was it. Journos wouldn’t know what to write.