My guess is a clear lack of ambition and expectation from within. And primarily from managers who for some reason don't believe that their work is to actually coach every player and maximize every single one of them, when a manager has low standards for himself how can player have high standard? Also, and I'm guilty of it, everyone becomes a hero after a couple of good games, look at Garnacho or how things are turning for Diallo.
They had a RB (Krafth) playing at CB. They were also missing 3 of their regular back four/five from the starting XI. Pope, Botman and Schär all start when fully fit. You could also argue that Livramento has overtaken Trippier at this point. He's become a liability defensively.
We should have kept David Moyes then. We fans know nothing and maybe if he was given several seasons he could have turned out good. Sound logic.
He can play RB or CB. It's not like they took Bruno Gimares or Joelinton to play at CB. Also, they were able to field 4 defenders on the pitch. I'm not at odds with your sentiment that a win was fortunate, and it's a bit weird you crowbarring Ten Hag into the conversation. There are a couple big chances unrelated to our structure or tactical set ups, for example the wan bissaka brainfarts of unforced errors. I'm not sure why that's related to Ten Hag.
Sure thing, buddy.
You know that's not what I said, and you've resorted to exaggerating despite me agreeing the win was fortunate. Good work, keep it up.
And it took Arteta 4 seasons to have a better season than ETH's first one. It's not that relevant but neither are the points you bring up.
Thank feck someone else has called this out too.
You're trying to absolve ten Hag though. That he's blameless for our chaotic style of play.
Yeah he may not even need to win now,no wonder he keeps sound bullish about his future.
That to me is everything. I said it before, I believe that ETH is perfectly able to have good and very good results with this club but he exposed something about himself that is in my opinion not forgettable or excusable, there is no way for me to ever trust him because now I know that he is able to sabotage himself and the club on purpose.
Im not absolving anything - our structure yesterday wasn't as open and we had some silly unforced errors leading to big chances. I think yesterday's game and the arsenal game were correct set ups by the manager but I'm very wiling to grant he's had a LOT of feck ups this season, palace home and away, Bournemouth, West ham away, Chelsea at home are just a few.
I know what you mean and it's very frustrating to me as well. We could've had another top 4 finish this season, probably in 4th behind Liverpool, and possibly gone at least to the quarters of the CL. However, I'm willing to excuse him for the CL performance as we had several good performances ruined by Onana howlers or refereeing decisions, especially the two away games in Istanbul and Copenhagen. That should've been 6 extra points.
Very similar to a couple of months ago, where we were riding our luck at times. People said it couldnt last and the luck would turn, and it eventually did and teams put their chances away against us.
Sorry
Second time.
I'm eating toasties, and you've made me splutter. You're a mad man!
Who says he has learned his lesson? For all we know the next two matches are going to include Antony on the right wing again.
There is zero excuse, especially when it comes to our CL performances, they were terrible. We had negative expected goals in 4 of our 6 games, we won one game with a negative xG difference, lost one game with a positive xG difference and drew one game with an xG of 1.6 and 1.5 xGA.
Nah, you thought you were on to a winner with the 15th at Christmas post. It's incredibly relevant. It provides context. You didn't provide any.
Arsenal, yes. Last night, not a chance.
Which is not a good idea because Arsenal's progress was linear, from one season to the other. They also didn't start from the same point.
There was nothing wrong with our set up yesterday. We didn't deserve to win but that wasnt down to something incorrect tactically. We made unforced errors and gave big chances - Onana made a couple of poor passes that surrendered an easy attack and Wan Bissaka was essentially a clown on the ball. I'm unsure how thats system or tactically related. There are tons of games where you can hang the blame on the manager, yesterday is a weird one to apply though.
And on top still won nothing big. Shouldn't you use someone actually winning stuff as a benchmark?
Arsenal was Arteta's first club managing, and he started quite young as manager at 37 y.o. You can excuse that he's learning the job, and his capability was unknown in high risk - high reward category. It's probably similar to us giving McKenna the job.
And maybe the fans wanting ETH out know nothing. Most of our former legends have all said stick with ETH because we’ve gotten rid of manager after manager and normally our legends are the ones saying get rid of managers. But Neville, Rooney, even Keane said they’d give ETH another season. What can we lose by doing that? He’s got 1 year of his contract left which means we’d save money by sacking him if that’s what’s needed to happen next year, or if he somehow works miracles next season then he deserves a new contract. INEOS and Ratcliffe are about saving money rather than wasting it hence the reason they’ve made all the staff pay to go to the final this year.
Settle down now, are you demonstrating some sort of expectation?
1. We've sacked fewer managers than the majority of our peer clubs.
Well we have transitioned from a decent team to an atrocious one in a short period of time.
Exactly an individual in their managerial infancy as a benchmark for an experienced manager who has won titles in other leagues? Erik by his own admission came to restore United to former glory so that definitively is winning the UCL or the premier league. This can be the only judgement to determine his success as a manager so he has to be measured to that directive consistently approaching 36 months.
This is all nonsense.
Ah, the brain-trust have had their say. Neville, Rooney and Keane are all failed managers. That's why they're pundits on Sky now.
Most of our legends would say stick with our manager, even if he relegates us three times in two years. Neville in particular would rather shoot himself than say United should sack their manager. While at the same time sack himself 5 Salford managers.
For like the millionth time: He isn't trying to play a possession based 4-3-3 system
While I agree with everything you said, I wasn't even thinking about their individual careers. I meant that Arsenal had not finished in the top 4 during the past +3 seasons(15-16). Ten Hag took over a team that had a poor season in 21-22 but finished in the top 4, 3 of the previous 4 seasons. We are not talking about clubs that were in a similar context, United's goal was to reach elite football while Arteta's goal was to go back to regular top 4 finishes.
Why would you sack someone for doing exactly what you'd hired them to do?
Yes, it should be "easy". But is it? I would say no to Southgate and Potter, not because I believe they are shit managers but because they are, at least in my mind, not upgrades to ten Hag. Tuchel perhaps, but it's not clear to many that he would be an upgrade or that he's even available. I would say no to Jose, who has a stellar resume but he left United in shambles and I would not have him back. Nor would I have Ole back. I don't think McKenna or Carrick are ready. I do like the cut of the jib of the Palace manager, Oliver Glasner, but I don't know enough about him to know whether he's ready to step up from Selhurst Park to Old Trafford and be the sensation that he has been for Palace.
