We've been grossly mismanaged for years, and crazily we still have players from the fecking Fergie era: DDG/Jones. The squad is honestly a collection of random individuals that have generally been acquired by negative managers in Ole/Jose/LvG.
There isn't a selection of midfielders in the squad that can beat City. The post match thread and this one are just arguments about how ETH should have set the team up to lose in a less embarassing fashion. We saw some decent play through City's press (which they didn't let up on, btw) in the second half and got 3 goals so at least there's something to build on. IMO that's better than sitting back the whole match hanging on to a 2-0 loss by our fingernails while creating absolutely nothing.
Would you be up for taking out a Barcelona style loan, selling off our future income to back ETH next summer?
Is this Sancho who played for that high pressing Dortmund team?
Is this Sancho who hasn't shown a single instance of competent pressing during his entire PL career?
What is that then? We have spent over £200m this summer, so how much more do we need to back him (in terms of £££) and where is that money coming from?
Well, I imagine we'll sell players he doesn't want after evaluating them over a full season, and we'll bring some in. Our net spend will probably be in the 100m region, or thereabouts.
Getting rid of dysfunctional players is more important than buying new ones.
I don’t even think it’s money he needs to be backed with. He needs the time to coach these players. We’ve got a quality team now. A decent manager… he just needs time to coach them… once he’s been with the same group of players for a season or 2 then we’ll see the massive difference. Guardiola has been with his team for years and it showed with the way they play together. It’s all about team cohesion and you don’t get that after a few months with a new team and new manager. They need time to become comfortable with each other and the ideas the manager wants.
I agree. That would have been wonderful but our players weren't able to do it. All I and quite a few others are saying is, why didn't we change formation to make it a little easier for us to do so? As you quoted, if he wanted front foot defending and brave decisions, why didn't he set us up more compact, to have a more solid base to do that from? I am sure you agree with me saying that those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. And for all his reasoning behind self belief, I think, you could make a pretty strong case for this to be very very optimistic, players aren't just starting to belief they can do stuff against such an opponent out of nothing.
I don't think, we did at all. Granted, we try to do it and it looks a little better than under Ole or RR but there is nothing at all suggesting that we are really getting better at it. (this isn't even a dig at ETH, because for pressing, you need to up so many things in a team, fitness levels, intensity, organisation, this is a difficult thing to implement. But indicating we are doing it to a good degree seems wrong to me)
My view as well.
Fully agree.
Fully agree.
Fair enough, I agree with the last sentence. I haven't seen the level of absurdness in terms of expectations though, that you are describing. On the contrary, I have seen people questioning the fan hood of others just because of criticism. I agree with you, unreasonable expectation are a bad thing. But there are more bad things going on.
I'd say some of you are going slightly over the top. We received a 6 goal beating yesterday. People are talking about potential things that might have been able to prevent that to a certain degree. Feels like every reaction on this side of the road is knee jerk to you. But you know it isn't. Of course there were a few posts with strange opinions, but lets not act as if they were the majority and that the "patient and reasonable fans" are needed to bring in some balance. Seems like the overwhelming majority is behind ETH. He has every right to make mistakes. Just as we have to talk about it with all our inexistent knowledge about it.
I bet he told them not to press against city as there just to good at passing and will manage to beat it which will leave space behind but that didn’t really matter because they had tons of space. We need the front 3 to press the defenders and keepers. When that happens mistakes happen and it can lead to you scoring a goal… Ederson had far to much time on the ball yesterday, that shouldn’t be allowed, we pressed Liverpool really well and they was making mistakes all over at the back.
Right you are!
Your chain of thought is horrendously muddled.
The players can press, maybe it's the set up which doesn't allow them too?
Certainly against Liverpool and Arsenal the intensity and press was there as soon as they entered the United half, yesterday for whatever reason it wasn't.
I wasn't too sure what the thinking was yesterday, really couldn't work out the game plan at all.
It's a mix of both tbh. Klopp ultimately needed a lot of his own players before Liverpool really started to challenge. The ones from other ereas that he kept, were the ones that he could coach and who could adapt to his methods.
What are you talking about?
Right you are!
Your chain of thought is horrendously muddled.
The players can press, maybe it's the set up which doesn't allow them too?
Certainly against Liverpool and Arsenal the intensity and press was there as soon as they entered the United half, yesterday for whatever reason it wasn't.
Yep, I predicted 5th-7th, which is what will be the case or worse.
I meant I'm seeing progression in that regard, not that we're doing it greatly. As you said yourself you need to get better at other things first. Baby steps and all that but some posters are claiming nothing is getting better and they're not seeing anything at all. That's just kneejerk reactions.
I think it was such a struggle to see a coherent game plan because we just played so poorly. It was a really strange first half from both team. Almost a testimonial in terms of passion and energy, but then we'd gone a month without a league game. Not a complete surprise. Many of these players still evidently carry scars from previous beatings.
wow, I suggest you calm down and take a deep breath!You hit the nail on the head with the passing.
I can't see any way he'll be backed as heavily next summer. The only reason he was backed so heavily is likely so the Glazers could take some heat off themselves.
Why would a united team on the back of a terrible season, that doesnt have a history of high pressing, under a manager who has been in the job for 4/5 months, played less than 10 competitive matches press like city or arsenal who both have managers who have been there for years and have had time to build squads and a mentality for high pressing/possession football?
I will definitely love to see this formation. I think it will bring the best out of Eriksen and Fred. I think Fred ability to pass between the lines especially in transition is underrated. both Fred and Casimero are good in ball recovering and that will allow Erick to be more of a creator. he takes care of the ball much better than Bruno.
Other than Mctominay who are the alternatives in attack ?
It's been 10 months now with Rangnick AND Ten Hag and pressing is still utterly shambolic and incoherent.
Rashford LW, Ronaldo #9, Fred and Casemiro CM and Eriksen #10.
I'll say it again, provide one match in the past year, where we've had two coaches intent on pressing, where we've shown highly competent pressing and that INCLUDES high pressing rather than just defending deep and stepping out. That's all I'm asking. One match in 2022. Just one.
You seem triggered!
I'm glad Ten Hag said that as it does need improvement.
I suggest you watch the Liverpool and Arsenal games back and see for yourself.
A press doesn't have to be high up the pitch, it a coordinated action anywhere on the pitch. Which is what United achieved during the Liverpool game, Bruno with 17 presses during the game, McT with 15 (yet apparently they cant press?),
Here's a snapshot of The Coaches Voice analysis after the Liverpool game: The hosts pressed Liverpool very well, mostly from a mid-block but with intermittent spells of higher pressing
As for the Arsenal game, our press wasn't great, but was there. That was mainly down to how good Arsenal were on the ball.
However, Ten Hag changed his mindset in that game and played mainly on the counter so a coordinated press wasn't as vital to proceedings,
So the players can do it, and have done it. Yesterday was bizarre in both application and desire.
Yeah we would've won 3-0 with that team.
You asked me for my side and I've given it. There's no need for snide remarks.
He has a point. You and every other fan and human being knows that to high press city there is fuk all room for error. I’d say if you analysed their losses and draws since Peps second season the vast majority were to teams who had significantly lower possession , lower chance creation, limited possession in high areas of the pitch. That tells you simply that it is not in any way normal to press city high and to enforce your game plan on them and still get a result. Tell me anyone but Klopp who has managed it consistently.
