Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

THE ZOL

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Abolutely. An apology is not good enough though. It should be an apology as well as a commitment to train to the best of his ability.

And to throw away all video games.
He should write “I will listen when Mr. Manager tells me to run” 500 times on the board otherwise no more play time until the end of the sixth grade.

If the chalk breaks, that’s another 100.
 

stefan92

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He literally needs to say sorry and he gets it all back.
He probably needs to mean it to have a foundation for working together again.

As I understand the core issue seems to be that Sancho and EtH rate his performances much better and I think an apology has to be along the lines of "Sorry, you were right and I will listen in the future". And I don't think Sancho is willing to accept this
 

Berbasbullet

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He probably needs to mean it to have a foundation for working together again.

As I understand the core issue seems to be that Sancho and EtH rate his performances much better and I think an apology has to be along the lines of "Sorry, you were right and I will listen in the future". And I don't think Sancho is willing to accept this
His own fault then.
 

Lee565

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I do put some blame in ten hag in the fact that he should have done everything to get rid or even loan out during the summer, sancho half arsing it in training was surely not a one off and had off the field issues just last season whilst showing little upon his return
 

Chesterlestreet

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Why is an apology weird?
It just comes across as something you'd say to a kid: "Apologize, young man, or you won't get your allowance this week."

In this case: "Apologize, young man, or you're out of the squad."

If something like that is the case, then yes - it's absolutely weird. You don't interact with adults in that way in a professional environment. You don't give ultimatums of that sort.

Of course, all of this is based on what's been reported in the media. For all I know, ETH hasn't made him apologize. But that's the story.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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There was a tweet the other day saying SJR will demand Ten Hag to bury the hatchet with Sancho, but I doubt there was any truth to it.

The only olive branch that kipper should get is one stuck up his arse
 

fallengt

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United fans are so desperate theyd rather side with bang average player to bash manager.
Ronaldo's episode was more entertain than this

"But Dirtmum Sancho!" who gives a shit. He had 2 or 3 decent games at United.
 

Still ill

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It just comes across as something you'd say to a kid: "Apologize, young man, or you won't get your allowance this week."

In this case: "Apologize, young man, or you're out of the squad."

If something like that is the case, then yes - it's absolutely weird. You don't interact with adults in that way in a professional environment. You don't give ultimatums of that sort.

Of course, all of this is based on what's been reported in the media. For all I know, ETH hasn't made him apologize. But that's the story.
So you'd suggest what response from Sancho precisely?
 

Chesterlestreet

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So you'd suggest what response from Sancho precisely?
Not sure what you mean.

If I were ETH and Sancho wasn't performing to my standards, I'd obviously talk to him and explain to him precisely what those standards are.

If he didn't respond well, I'd consider it a major problem and bring in upper management.

If he outright disrespected me - same thing again, bring in upper management, let them know that I can't work with someone who outright disrespects me.

I just don't see how "apologize to me" (and then what? We're cool? Carry on?) could possibly play a significant part in how you deal with someone professionally.
 

Kellyiom

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Not sure what you mean.

If I were ETH and Sancho wasn't performing to my standards, I'd obviously talk to him and explain to him precisely what those standards are.

If he didn't respond well, I'd consider it a major problem and bring in upper management.

If he outright disrespected me - same thing again, bring in upper management, let them know that I can't work with someone who outright disrespects me.

I just don't see how "apologize to me" (and then what? We're cool? Carry on?) could possibly play a significant part in how you deal with someone professionally.
I think Sancho might have to back down in some form in order to play football anywhere. A lot of managers/coaches would be looking at this little incident and seriously asking whether it's worth the bother of having him. You'd be thinking twice about everything in case it causes offence and how the other team members were reacting. Anything that affects the discipline and upsets the hierarchy - Manager>Captain>Player is going to hurt the team usually.
 

Still ill

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Not sure what you mean.

If I were ETH and Sancho wasn't performing to my standards, I'd obviously talk to him and explain to him precisely what those standards are.

If he didn't respond well, I'd consider it a major problem and bring in upper management.

If he outright disrespected me - same thing again, bring in upper management, let them know that I can't work with someone who outright disrespects me.

I just don't see how "apologize to me" (and then what? We're cool? Carry on?) could possibly play a significant part in how you deal with someone professionally.
Ah now. Stories work better as news items in black and white, without nuance. How do you picture it having gone down? Him yelling 'say sorry!' at a cowering Sancho? He's dealt well with a plethora of complex issues since he's come, Ronaldo, Maguire etc. My take is that he simply requires an admission on Sancho's side that his online reaction was the wrong way to go, a conciliatory approach, not an abject shoe kissing display.
 

jeff gurr

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I do put some blame in ten hag in the fact that he should have done everything to get rid or even loan out during the summer, sancho half arsing it in training was surely not a one off and had off the field issues just last season whilst showing little upon his return
ETH is probably in the right but he is damaging the value of a club asset. Surely there could have been a better way of handling this !!!
It reeks of Amateur Hour !!
 

Anustart89

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ETH is probably in the right but he is damaging the value of a club asset. Surely there could have been a better way of handling this !!!
It reeks of Amateur Hour !!
If he had indulged him then all other players would've started taking the piss which would've damaged the entire club, and I'll let you figure out which option is more economically damaging.
 

Oranges038

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ETH is probably in the right but he is damaging the value of a club asset. Surely there could have been a better way of handling this !!!
It reeks of Amateur Hour !!
Yeah, getting rid of him in the summer would have been the wise move.

But I think that would have had negative implications for FFP. So, instead of selling him for a loss, it was financially in terms of FFP a better move to keep him and let him rot.
 

jeff gurr

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Yeah, getting rid of him in the summer would have been the wise move.

But I think that would have had negative implications for FFP. So, instead of selling him for a loss, it was financially in terms of FFP a better move to keep him and let him rot.
I think taking a loss on him last Summer & letting him become someone else's problem might have been the way to go.
 

tomaldinho1

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I do put some blame in ten hag in the fact that he should have done everything to get rid or even loan out during the summer, sancho half arsing it in training was surely not a one off and had off the field issues just last season whilst showing little upon his return
I feel like there were some stories we were open to selling him to be fair but no one had any interest given his salary expectations.
 

Plant0x84

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There was a tweet the other day saying SJR will demand Ten Hag to bury the hatchet with Sancho, but I doubt there was any truth to it.
I call bullshit. That is very at odds with multiple reports that say SJR wants to sell Sancho - even from the start of the process.
 

Grande

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It just comes across as something you'd say to a kid: "Apologize, young man, or you won't get your allowance this week."

In this case: "Apologize, young man, or you're out of the squad."

If something like that is the case, then yes - it's absolutely weird. You don't interact with adults in that way in a professional environment. You don't give ultimatums of that sort.

Of course, all of this is based on what's been reported in the media. For all I know, ETH hasn't made him apologize. But that's the story.
I think probably that’s not quite the metaphor. When someone goes public with accusing their boss of lying, I think very seldom there is a way back to a trusted position under the same boss unless one in some way says it was wrong thing do, or I’m sorry I did that, or I apologize for that, or something of the sort. And preferably mean it, not just say it, because who would put trust in an employee who think it’s fine to tell world media you are lying?

And I guess, even then, there is a long way back. I’m quite sure no end of atonement or trying to right the wrongs would stop an Alex Ferguson from just flat out removing you from the club whatever you said, if you’d done that first.
 

Grande

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I think taking a loss on him last Summer & letting him become someone else's problem might have been the way to go.
With evidence in hand, you probably are right. Still, how do we know or not wether Ten Hag said to sell Sancho to his superiors, but got a no because there was no takers at a loss the Glazers could accept? Ten Hag’s constant use of Sancho as a placeholder for Martial/New Striker (Højlund) in preseason, while playing Garnacho, Forson and Elanga in Sancho’s realistic positions - it certainly indidcated to me Ten Hag didn’t see Sancho as worth neither his fee nor salary, and probably would have preferred to let him go on a free even to free up his wages, what do I know?

The hoping against hope was that it was part of a shrewd new plan with Sancho blossoming as a false nine, but I think in hind sight that was extremely unrealistic and clear that Ten Hag after one preseason and season didn’t see Sancho as worth keeping. But he doesn’t call the shots about stuff like that.
 

AshRK

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ETH is probably in the right but he is damaging the value of a club asset. Surely there could have been a better way of handling this !!!
It reeks of Amateur Hour !!ĵ
No eth is actually smart. Sancho playing more would have decreased his value even more. That's how shit he has been for us.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I call bullshit. That is very at odds with multiple reports that say SJR wants to sell Sancho - even from the start of the process.
Yeah I expect a lot of shit stirring about us over the coming months to make every new personnel at the club a caricature as that sells. Hopefully it isn’t true and we get some footballing competence onboard. Right now there needs to be a clear message to footballers at United to get in line and sort their attitude and effort levels otherwise they’ll be booted out. Sancho has already proven himself an utter joke in this regard. I’d sell him in January purely on principal. And I’m someone who was desperate for us to sign him - he was one player after a long while that I was dying for us to sign.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Not sure what you mean.

If I were ETH and Sancho wasn't performing to my standards, I'd obviously talk to him and explain to him precisely what those standards are.

If he didn't respond well, I'd consider it a major problem and bring in upper management.

If he outright disrespected me - same thing again, bring in upper management, let them know that I can't work with someone who outright disrespects me.

I just don't see how "apologize to me" (and then what? We're cool? Carry on?) could possibly play a significant part in how you deal with someone professionally.
I'm sure the apology will have to be public. He publicly called his manager a liar, how can he be integrated back into the squad without undermining the manager's authority if we don't have a retraction of that statement + apology?

And you are assuming he hasn't gone to 'upper management'. From the way the situation is going on, the tacit understanding is that upper management doesnt feel his request is unreasonable (if it's true, as reported).
 

Marcus

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I call bullshit. That is very at odds with multiple reports that say SJR wants to sell Sancho - even from the start of the process.
I agree. A great winning attitude is the most important thing to SJR and his right hand man. It is impossible that they want to keep Sancho when that is literally his worst attribute.
 
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Adebisi's Hat

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who do you feckin think ?
It just comes across as something you'd say to a kid: "Apologize, young man, or you won't get your allowance this week."

In this case: "Apologize, young man, or you're out of the squad."
I am so hearing your quotes in a Brian Clough voice, cant get it out of my head now. Mark Crossly seems to have made a youtube name for himself doing Clough voices, very funny.


I do put some blame in ten hag in the fact that he should have done everything to get rid or even loan out during the summer, sancho half arsing it in training was surely not a one off and had off the field issues just last season whilst showing little upon his return
good point actually about last summer. There is no doubt ETH and the club went out of their way to protect Sancho last season.While we all had great sympathy for what we perceived as 'mental heath' issues, this was possibly just Sancho acting the maggot at that time and getting packed off to train away from the squad. Yes maybe given all that, they should have in that case seen what was possibly coming down the tracks and got rid.
 

Chesterlestreet

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I’m quite sure no end of atonement or trying to right the wrongs would stop an Alex Ferguson from just flat out removing you from the club whatever you said, if you’d done that first.
That's kind of the point, though.

Fergie would've kicked his arse out immediately if he even suspected the player didn't respect him.

But Fergie ain't in charge anymore. Who is? ETH? Murtough? The guy who likes to buy beers for fans, and who has now apparently resigned? The guy with the worst ponytail in history? His brother?

Asking for "apologies", I mean, come on - it's ridiculous.

This ain't a feckin' kindergarten.
 

caid

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That's kind of the point, though.

Fergie would've kicked his arse out immediately if he even suspected the player didn't respect him.

But Fergie ain't in charge anymore. Who is? ETH? Murtough? The guy who likes to buy beers for fans, and who has now apparently resigned? The guy with the worst ponytail in history? His brother?

Asking for "apologies", I mean, come on - it's ridiculous.

This ain't a feckin' kindergarten.
But he wouldn't have. He couldn't have. Transfer windows and contracts exist. Its just not a normal work environment and leaving that aside SAF was in a drastically different environment to most football managers. We were trying to sell him in the summer so its not like getting rid of him wasn't thought of.
I dont get why you see apologising as childish. Its weird and comes off as kind of childish to me funnily enough. Like the only reason you'd apologise is because you were forced to by a mean parent.
 

Chesterlestreet

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But he wouldn't have. He couldn't have. Transfer windows and contracts exist. Its just not a normal work environment and leaving that aside SAF was in a drastically different environment to most football managers. We were trying to sell him in the summer so its not like getting rid of him wasn't thought of.
I dont get why you see apologising as childish. Its weird and comes off as kind of childish to me funnily enough. Like the only reason you'd apologise is because you were forced to by a mean parent.
Yeah, fine.

The environment is different. ETH can't just feck him off. I know that. Someone else brought in Fergie, so I commented on that - probably shouldn't have, just ignore that.

Again (for the 99th time, it seems): The premise here (what I have been commenting on from the beginning) is that ETH has demanded an apology from Sancho as a condition: unless you apologize, you won't be a part of the first team.

This, to me, is absolutely ridiculous from a club perspective. If the club (Murtough, the supposed DOF?) consider Sancho an asset, why the feck would they let him rot in the reserves because the "manager" demands an "apology"? Does ETH run this club? Should he?

And this is based on the premise (above). I have said numerous times that I don't know whether this premise is true. I am commenting on what may very well be a hypothetical scenario. Which I have made clear now roughly 99 times.

As for the "childish" part - yes, I do believe that this applies somewhat based on the premise. These are people making millions of pounds, conflicts between "manager" and player shouldn't be hopelessly stalled because the former demands an "apology".

(To continue the analogy, a responsible adult should intervene. We don't seem to have any, though.)
 

InfiniteBoredom

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What?

Are you suggesting that ETH has demanded a public apology from Sancho (in what form, a press conference?) before he lets him train with the adults again?

(And if so, do you think this makes sense?)
You are making this way more complicated than it has to be.

He posted on Instagram saying the manager lied, a self same post retracting that statement saying he was wrong would suffice, that’s public.

And it makes perfect sense, you might not like it, but adults have demanded public apology and retraction for things they considered slighted their honor/reputation for ages, sometimes with deadly consequences.
 

gregwar

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F**k him. Absolute waste of space, time and wage.

A shambles of a signing. Up there with the worst we've ever signed on.
 

Pickle85

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You are making this way more complicated than it has to be.

He posted on Instagram saying the manager lied, a self same post retracting that statement saying he was wrong would suffice, that’s public.

And it makes perfect sense, you might not like it, but adults have demanded public apology and retraction for things they considered slighted their honor/reputation for ages, sometimes with deadly consequences.
Agreed. To cave at this point would be to signal to players that the manager holds little power and they can do what they want. ETH was instructed when he joined, allegedly, to help to break this culture of player power at united. Sancho is not a player worth buckling for like this. Can't wait to see the back of the little scrote.
 

r0663664

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Sancho probably feels Antony sucks just as bad and continues to start for ETH so he spoke out. I think Sancho isn't bothered if he plays or not, he will continue to pick up his wages until a new club comes in with a bid. Even if no clubs come for him, he will pretty that someone will sign him once he leaves on a free transfer. I think ETH will accept him back if he apologises but Sancho is too proud to admit that he is wrong. I think the drama stops here, he will be sold once a club submits a decent bid. Nothing to see here, Sancho is probably somewhere having fun partying until the international break is over.
 

Zehner

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Pleased to hear that he doesn't fancy a move to Saudi Arabia
 

Anustart89

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I was watching the Overlap episode with Craig Bellamy and among the things he said he was talking about how he'd publicly called Souness a liar and that "he knew he was done then", and talking very openly about how fecking dumb that was.

The fact that some people are still saying that EtH should just drop this (and drop his authority) over someone who, frankly speaking, has been an absolute nothing player for us is absolutely mind-boggling. He should count himself lucky that there still seems to be a way back in for him and that he's such a pricey asset that the club can't chuck him out the club, Fresh Prince in Bel-Air style.
 

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It just comes across as something you'd say to a kid: "Apologize, young man, or you won't get your allowance this week."

In this case: "Apologize, young man, or you're out of the squad."

If something like that is the case, then yes - it's absolutely weird. You don't interact with adults in that way in a professional environment. You don't give ultimatums of that sort.

Of course, all of this is based on what's been reported in the media. For all I know, ETH hasn't made him apologize. But that's the story.
It happens all the time in professional environments. When people get dragged through HR hearings after behaving badly at work, a commitment to apologise to other employees their behaviour affected would be a standard part of them working their way back into the fold.