Stobzilla
Adores babies
Can the thread be renamed to "Sancho Vs. Sancho" ?
He has to go in January. What a weak mentality from him. The fact he's thinks he's a scapegoat is laughable, he's been given numerous chances. Is he really going home from games thinking 'Yeah I've done well there'. He's been nothing sort of shocking apart from a few games and rather than prove himself and turn it round he's just thrown in the towel.
And who's advising him - to basically go on strike and put out that statement? Are they not sitting him down saying 'You cost the club £70m, they've put a lot of faith in you, allowed you time off etc but you haven't really performed, you need to do better'.
So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
Maybe he wasn't deluded enough to believe he was going to get any game time over Rashford and Garnacho.
Sancho CANNOT remain a man utd player no matter the manager. No player should have a way back into the team after trying to undermine the manager. It sets a dangerous precedent.I said it the day this began - this ends with one of them leaving. However, January is still months away, and it remains to be seen who it will be.
Unless it's both.
Even if true, it doesn't really matter. Sancho hasn't performed at a level where he can't be dropped. Managers having favourites, rightly or wrongly is just part of the game he and fans have to accept. If I sanctioned a £90m move for a RW, I'd probably back him more than the previous guy.Sancho is in idiot and wrong in this whole shtick. But what he said about Antony being ETH golden child is true as well. Antony has been largely shite which is similar to Sancho but you'll bet your house on it if Antony available he'll get picked ahead of everyone. Shite overpaid player and alleged woman beater too but hey ho he'll help the defensive shape.
Antony played 120 minutes more than him in the league last year, despite Sancho not being available for 3 months.Sancho is in idiot and wrong in this whole shtick. But what he said about Antony being ETH golden child is true as well. Antony has been largely shite which is similar to Sancho but you'll bet your house on it if Antony available he'll get picked ahead of everyone. Shite overpaid player and alleged woman beater too but hey ho he'll help the defensive shape.
So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
ETH’s statement that made Sancho publicly come out against him was such a nothingburger. ETH has plenty of issues but this isn’t one of them.Will probably get much stick for it but anyway: I think most of the takes in this thread are very definitive although it not really known what happens. Most back up Ten Hag in this situation completely and I can't agree with that.
Some suggest Ten Hag's comment on Sancho's absence is a non issue but even if you ignore that the player suggests that's only the tip of the iceberg, every leadership expert I've ever met will confirm that this is a horrible way of handling the situation. Feedback is best provided under four eyes and if you absolutely have to criticize somebody in front of an audience (let alone one that spans millions of viewers worldwide) you have to do it with care. And that's not even considering that even such a seemingly minor comment will probably cause hundreds of Social Media degenerates to throw insults and threats in Sancho's direction - a 23 year old who was the target of racial discrimination not too long ago and was sidelined by "physical and mental issues" in Ten Hag's own words. Sancho's own conduct aside, I struggle to understand how anybody can think that Ten Hag managed this correctly. There's a reason you rarely if ever hear a coach or another executive say stuff like this about players. And bad training attitude or lack of motivation isn't uncommon even at top clubs, just that stuff like this isn't dealt with in public normally. Even if that means making up an illness or some other reason for the absence of a sanctioned player.
And then there's also Sancho's accusation of being treated unfairly. Of course Sancho has a history of being difficult (albeit nothing even remotely comparable to this has happened so far) so you can't take his claims at face value but that doesn't mean he can't be a scapegoat either. We know very little about his "sabbatical" or the nature of the "mental issues" but this goes both ways - I wonder how anybody can rule out completely that Ten Hag has his favorites. As if this is unheard of from coaches. As if he's not generally in a conflict of interest when he demands certain players for huge money and then benches them. Now, I'm not saying that he definitely does. I'm only saying that based on the currently available information, there's no way of telling it.
That doesn't mean I think Sancho conducted himself correctly by the way. It was definitely stupid and immature behaviour. But Ten Hag is the one in a leadership position. At the very least, this public feedback was very clumsy and unprofessional and he should know better than this. And the insistence on an apology is also a bit vane if you ask me.
So what is his issue with Antony then? Sancho has proven to be not good enough regardless of whether he plays on the left or right. If anything, he's been a fortunate beneficiary of Mason Greenwood's downfall because there was no contest between the two of them.But he did, especially ahead of Garnacho when Rashford was moved to CF, Sancho was just rubbish and rightly dropped
What about casting a player out because of something he posted on twitter, then. Good management?
Said player was already cast out ahead of a big match against Arsenal for his behavior in training prior...What about casting a player out because of something he posted on twitter, then. Good management?
But EtH did not criticise Sancho, he just said that the training performances were the reason to decide. He even explicitly made clear that this is not about disciplinary action for something (unlike the time he left Rashford out due to being late, which was also publicly stated and didn't cause further trouble).Will probably get much stick for it but anyway: I think most of the takes in this thread are very definitive although it not really known what happens. Most back up Ten Hag in this situation completely and I can't agree with that.
Some suggest Ten Hag's comment on Sancho's absence is a non issue but even if you ignore that the player suggests that's only the tip of the iceberg, every leadership expert I've ever met will confirm that this is a horrible way of handling the situation. Feedback is best provided under four eyes and if you absolutely have to criticize somebody in front of an audience (let alone one that spans millions of viewers worldwide) you have to do it with care. And that's not even considering that even such a seemingly minor comment will probably cause hundreds of Social Media degenerates to throw insults and threats in Sancho's direction - a 23 year old who was the target of racial discrimination not too long ago and was sidelined by "physical and mental issues" in Ten Hag's own words. Sancho's own conduct aside, I struggle to understand how anybody can think that Ten Hag managed this correctly. There's a reason you rarely if ever hear a coach or another executive say stuff like this about players. And bad training attitude or lack of motivation isn't uncommon even at top clubs, just that stuff like this isn't dealt with in public normally. Even if that means making up an illness or some other reason for the absence of a sanctioned player.
And then there's also Sancho's accusation of being treated unfairly. Of course Sancho has a history of being difficult (albeit nothing even remotely comparable to this has happened so far) so you can't take his claims at face value but that doesn't mean he can't be a scapegoat either. We know very little about his "sabbatical" or the nature of the "mental issues" but this goes both ways - I wonder how anybody can rule out completely that Ten Hag has his favorites. As if this is unheard of from coaches. As if he's not generally in a conflict of interest when he demands certain players for huge money and then benches them. Now, I'm not saying that he definitely does. I'm only saying that based on the currently available information, there's no way of telling it.
That doesn't mean I think Sancho conducted himself correctly by the way. It was definitely stupid and immature behaviour. But Ten Hag is the one in a leadership position. At the very least, this public feedback was very clumsy and unprofessional and he should know better than this. And the insistence on an apology is also a bit vane if you ask me.
I know you love Sancho but surely you can accept he's at fault here?Will probably get much stick for it but anyway: I think most of the takes in this thread are very definitive although it not really known what happens. Most back up Ten Hag in this situation completely and I can't agree with that.
Some suggest Ten Hag's comment on Sancho's absence is a non issue but even if you ignore that the player suggests that's only the tip of the iceberg, every leadership expert I've ever met will confirm that this is a horrible way of handling the situation. Feedback is best provided under four eyes and if you absolutely have to criticize somebody in front of an audience (let alone one that spans millions of viewers worldwide) you have to do it with care. And that's not even considering that even such a seemingly minor comment will probably cause hundreds of Social Media degenerates to throw insults and threats in Sancho's direction - a 23 year old who was the target of racial discrimination not too long ago and was sidelined by "physical and mental issues" in Ten Hag's own words. Sancho's own conduct aside, I struggle to understand how anybody can think that Ten Hag managed this correctly. There's a reason you rarely if ever hear a coach or another executive say stuff like this about players. And bad training attitude or lack of motivation isn't uncommon even at top clubs, just that stuff like this isn't dealt with in public normally. Even if that means making up an illness or some other reason for the absence of a sanctioned player.
And then there's also Sancho's accusation of being treated unfairly. Of course Sancho has a history of being difficult (albeit nothing even remotely comparable to this has happened so far) so you can't take his claims at face value but that doesn't mean he can't be a scapegoat either. We know very little about his "sabbatical" or the nature of the "mental issues" but this goes both ways - I wonder how anybody can rule out completely that Ten Hag has his favorites. As if this is unheard of from coaches. As if he's not generally in a conflict of interest when he demands certain players for huge money and then benches them. Now, I'm not saying that he definitely does. I'm only saying that based on the currently available information, there's no way of telling it.
That doesn't mean I think Sancho conducted himself correctly by the way. It was definitely stupid and immature behaviour. But Ten Hag is the one in a leadership position. At the very least, this public feedback was very clumsy and unprofessional and he should know better than this. And the insistence on an apology is also a bit vane if you ask me.
But EtH did not criticise Sancho, he just said that the training performances were the reason to decide. He even explicitly made clear that this is not about disciplinary action for something (unlike the time he left Rashford out due to being late, which was also publicly stated and didn't cause further trouble).
So please answer that: what could EtH have said about his squad selection that would have been better and not hurt Sancho's feelings AND would not hurt the feelings of the player selected instead?
Agree with this. I don't see black and white here and both could/should have done better. But like you said, Ten Hag is the leader here and he fumbled the incident. It should never have gotten so out of hand that Arnold and Murtough had to get involved.That doesn't mean I think Sancho conducted himself correctly by the way. It was definitely stupid and immature behaviour. But Ten Hag is the one in a leadership position. At the very least, this public feedback was very clumsy and unprofessional and he should know better than this. And the insistence on an apology is also a bit vane if you ask me.
I know you love Sancho but surely you can accept he's at fault here?
Ten Hag said he wasn't picked based on training performances, literally nothing else. He's been woeful for us, dreadful, and Antony for his flaws is the better option. I had massive expectations for Sancho, there's a such a good player hiding in there somewhere, but there's nothing wrong with what ETH said. That's without factoring in ETH seems to have been very protective of him previously and allowed him liberties most players don't get, albeit we don't know the full details.
But EtH did not criticise Sancho, he just said that the training performances were the reason to decide. He even explicitly made clear that this is not about disciplinary action for something (unlike the time he left Rashford out due to being late, which was also publicly stated and didn't cause further trouble).
So please answer that: what could EtH have said about his squad selection that would have been better and not hurt Sancho's feelings AND would not hurt the feelings of the player selected instead?
So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
I get the idea behind this, but inventing an injury means saying that the replacement isn't in the squad because he earned it, but just to fill in. That's why I don't accept your response as not hurting his feelings.Assuming it was really not disciplinary and Ten Hag thought that a 19 year old with one first team appearance could be of greater help than Sancho, he could have said that said player's training performances were really good and he wanted to reward him for his efforts. Direct the attention away from him, not criticize him directly. But I guess the modus operandi in such situations is rather to talk to the player in private, tell him you're disappointed with his performances and then invent a cold or a pulled muscle or something like this to avoid the media circus.
Sancho has played six full seasons of senior level football, while he isn't old, he is not an unexperienced youngster who has to get accustomed to professional football.I mean, put yourself in Ten Hag's shoes. You're the coach of one of the most followed teams on the planet, one of your young players
I think Sancho's response is immature and helps nobody. That doesn't mean that Ten Hag said nothing wrong, though. Whether or not he's guilty of favoritism, I can't say, nor do I know if Sancho's training performances were bad. But even assuming Ten Hag rightfully picks other players over Sancho and that Sancho lacks self reflection and is making a fuss out of nothing (basically assuming the best from Ten Hag and the worst from Sancho), I think Ten Hag showed bad leadership in this situation and should do better.
Anyway, you could also sum it up the other way round and say that even if Sancho is fully right and Ten Hag treats him poorly, his reaction is childish. But Ten Hag is not only the older one, he is also the one trusted with managing a team and the characters in there and thus should be held to higher standards.
This is simply not true....Do you think that is how somebody like Ancelotti or Klopp would have answered? Or Guardiola who never says a bad word about one of his players publicly?
Er, what?! Pep has called out his players loads of times. He directly called out KdB and Walker publicly last year. Walker even gave an interview about how it hurt but that it also motivated him to kick on and better his game. Loads of managers publicly challenge their players when necessary, especially the very best.I honestly don't get how anybody can think that Ten Hag couldn't have handled this better. Do you think that is how somebody like Ancelotti or Klopp would have answered? Or Guardiola who never says a bad word about one of his players publicly?
Glad I wasn't the only one that was confused by that comment.This is simply not true.
I get the idea behind this, but inventing an injury means saying that the replacement isn't in the squad because he earned it, but just to fill in. That's why I don't accept your response as not hurting his feelings.
Sancho has played six full seasons of senior level football, while he isn't old, he is not an unexperienced youngster who has to get accustomed to professional football.
Garnacho or Pellistri are young players, Sancho isn't.
Curious to know what should he have done differently. Just tell sancho "fine come back to the team".
I still don't understand Why should sancho get a special preference for his petulant behavior ? Also, ETH didn't even abuse or berate or bash or troll or whatever other adjectives him.
He was much harsher in regards to Kalvin Phillips than anything Ten Hag ever said about SanchoEr, what?! Pep has called out his players loads of times. He directly called out KdB and Walker publicly last year. Walker even gave an interview about how it hurt but that it also motivated him to kick on and better his game. Loads of managers publicly challenge their players when necessary, especially the very best.
So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
Er, what?! Pep has called out his players loads of times. He directly called out KdB and Walker publicly last year. Walker even gave an interview about how it hurt but that it also motivated him to kick on and better his game. Loads of managers publicly challenge their players when necessary, especially the very best.
I think Sancho's response is immature and helps nobody. That doesn't mean that Ten Hag said nothing wrong, though. Whether or not he's guilty of favoritism, I can't say, nor do I know if Sancho's training performances were bad. But even assuming Ten Hag rightfully picks other players over Sancho and that Sancho lacks self reflection and is making a fuss out of nothing (basically assuming the best from Ten Hag and the worst from Sancho), I think Ten Hag showed bad leadership in this situation and should do better.
Anyway, you could also sum it up the other way round and say that even if Sancho is fully right and Ten Hag treats him poorly, his reaction is childish. But Ten Hag is not only the older one, he is also the one trusted with managing a team and the characters in there and thus should be held to higher standards.
Pep has the gravitas to do it. His team respect him and follow his every word, if they don't, the know the consequence.
Ten Hag isn't at that level. He currently cant get a tune out of his team.