If they really want out, we let them go, see Kroos. Thing is, most folks just like it here, and stay on their own behalf. It's not like we're having a tradition of shotgun-signings over here.
Erling Haaland | Dortmund player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
And how do you plan to sign those players? When Sancho, Haaland, Brandt, Reyna, etc. want to make the next step, they're already too good for you. Ambition-wise, yuou're even a step back from Dortmund since the CL is pretty much guaranteed there and the chances to win titles are also greater. Your only argument is money and as long as other clubs who are more successful than you can pay similar wages, that is worth close to nothing. The last players you signed in that talent mould are probably Martial and Pogba and those two came when your reputation was still much better than it currently is. And their development ever since is pretty much a warning sign for every talented player out there.
Of course you'll be able to sign a great player like Bruno fernandes occasionally by playing ridiculous amounts of money but I doubt that is a sustainable way of building a team.
I'm glad to hear that you guys finally moved on from that silly thought of signing HavertzKicks in right as we'll want to replace Lewa. Can't wait to welcome him at our club come summer '22
Wonder who you'll lay your eyes on when Haaland also chooses another club over you.Just kidding, I'm sure Salihamidzicz will convince both players to eventually join you. Can only imagine how inspiring a transfer conversation with him must be!
Yeah because other clubs are building teams by signing players using popcorn and peanuts.
Dude you have a huge chip on the shoulder, pipe down.
Every player or most player sign for a club for money, otherwise they would stay at their home clubs and play out their entire career, it's just that each club have different ability to pay wages, Dortmund have their ceiling, ManUtd have their ceiling. If CL alone is enough then players would be playing in Greece, Portuguese leagues too as teams are pretty much guaranteed CL spots.
United could have never signed Haaland for one very important reason......
The first time that United accept a player on the provision of a release clause is the time that both agents and players start to view United differently. Regardless of our current state, we are still prestigious as a club in name; if we inject release clauses into our contracts, it'll be expected in the future by agents who want opportunities to move their client on, and by players who will progressively see United in a stepping stone light.
The first time that United accept a player on the provision of a release clause is the time that both agents and players start to view United differently. Regardless of our current state, we are still prestigious as a club in name; if we inject release clauses into our contracts, it'll be expected in the future by agents who want opportunities to move their client on, and by players who will progressively see United in a stepping stone light.
They don't. But neither do they pay fortunes for those popcorns and peanuts laying on the ground after the current elite ate the most delicious ones themselves.
Nobody joins a German side for European football for feck sake. Youre a joke in that regard these days
Yeah sure, just spout some random shit as ever.
If that would be the case, they wouldn't have asked for a release clause to begin with. Image means close to nothing when dealing with someone like Raiola or Mendes. They know your position and they know theirs so they know perfectly well what they can demand in a negotiation with you.
Acting like you still belong to that small number of clubs every player wants to sign for won't help you. You aren't currently and the fastest qay to get back to where you once was is accepting that and act accordingly. If you grant a release clause now and get back to the top in 3-4 years, playing for titles and everything, nobody will care what happened 3-4 years ago. Does the position Liverpool were in before Klopp signed for them has any effect on their transfer activities nowadays? Of course not. But they also had to lose Sterling and Coutinho in the meantime. That's life. Football is short-lived, nobody cares about your history except for your fans and maybe a very, very tiny number of players. It's perspetive and money that matter and in the one category you're severely trailing behind.
Time will well who's spouting shit. If signings like Harry Maguire for close to 90m € or Bruno Fernandes for up to 80m € will get you back to the top, I'll gladly swallow my words.
If we pay 80 million for Bruno then surely you will.
Touché
It started with Bosman, and since then there is an ongoing fight of power between clubs and the individual players. That´s the bigger pictures, and it´s not about United, or this club or that club. Agents are hired by players (not the other way around) to speak their interest, and release clauses represent some sort of security for a player, so that he can easily leave a club if he wants to - because of money perhaps, or because he does not get to play, he does not trive in the city, his family want to leave, he does not get along with the other players, the manager does not believe in him, he gets an offer from a bigger club, he´s missing his parents, he doesn´t like the weather, or for whatever reason. Just like everyone would like to have the freedom of quitting her/his job if she/he feels like. From a player´s perspective, this is very understandable.
The clubs however, see it very differently, and United are one of those clubs taking the stand they want to fight this player power. If you sign a contract for 3 years, well, then you expect the player to be available for those 3 years. And if you want to leave earlier, the club want the right to put a prize on your head based on your current value in the marked. If you invest in gold, you would like the freedom of cashing in on your investment based on the actual value - not based on any clause saying you have to sell if someone offer you a certain amount of money.
You suggest that the fight against player power is already lost, and you might be right, but as a supporter of a football club - not football players - I find it reasonable that a club want to guard their investment. Yes, everyone should have the freedom to seek work wherever they want, but if you are offered a job at McDonalds, McDonalds don´t need to pay Burgerking any money, do they.
You don't have to talk or inspire a lot if there's guaranteed silverware on the menuI'm glad to hear that you guys finally moved on from that silly thought of signing Havertz
Just kidding, I'm sure Salihamidzicz will convince both players to eventually join you. Can only imagine how inspiring a transfer conversation with him must be!
Btw, I'm not so sure about Havertz joining us anymore. Neither are (or anybody else, for that matter) we going to shell out 130m for him, nor do we have a pressing need here.
Both Müller & Goretzka compete for the same spot as him, and both are doing pretty fine lately.
LW & RB are the spots where we *have* to find premium solutions. Don't that would leave us with sufficient funds for Havertz.
Arsenal signed Dortmunds best player Aubameyang with no champions league so there answers your question. Money is the single greatest factor in anything business related. Lets not pretend it isnt. Whether our reputation has declined or not we will still have no trouble signing those you have listed as long as we can pay. Thats the difference between United and a Dortmund/leverkusen, our long history of success has merged more into the commercial side and kept us going till we can shift back to winning things. The only players who wont come here are limited to 5 and they are all Worldclass(they have the money so trophies is more important). Anyone else is fair game.
Also Haaland didnt come here because he was willing to wait a full year before he did or moved to another top club. Raoila is an expert planner and knows Dortmund is not his final destination. Dortmund are also aware of this and are okay because they know they are a top tier feeder club. A historical German club has been reduced to nothing but a stepping stone for other clubs that it was on par with a few years ago.
See, I don't really care about the ethics behind all that, I only see the market for what it is. And the market is how it is because players are worth all the stuff you mentioned. They wouldn't be able to demand those things if clubs weren't better off accepting it in order to sign a promising player. That's the mechanism, that's how markets work. The things you can demand for your service are directly dependant on what you offer. Players just insist on their share of the profit, which is just rational behaviour.
Also, from a financial perspective, where's the problem? Dortmund will most likely still make profit from Haaland. And even if it was +/- 0, they would've got 2-3 years of a top striker for free. This argument only makes sense if there were opportunity costs, which in this scenario effectively means they (or you) could've signed another striker that would've generated greater profit while producing similar performances. IMO that's not the case, neither for you nor for Dortmund, which makes this argument appear very weak to me. Essentially, this is a loan move with recognizable financial reward in the end. Say the option were on the table that United could loan Mbappe for three years, pay his wages and then be rewarded with 50 million for it - what speaks against it?
That were my thoughts from the very beginning. Coman's injury record is a shame but you definitely need to find someone more reliable for that position.You don't have to talk or inspire a lot if there's guaranteed silverware on the menu
Btw, I'm not so sure about Havertz joining us anymore. Neither are (or anybody else, for that matter) we going to shell out 130m for him, nor do we have a pressing need here.
Both Müller & Goretzka compete for the same spot as him, and both are doing pretty fine lately.
LW & RB are the spots where we *have* to find premium solutions. Don't that would leave us with sufficient funds for Havertz.
I'm a little bit disappointed that Kimmich will move to the center completely. Germany has an abundance of great midfielders but only sub par full backs. Kimmich was world class in both positions. Now we have no premium solution for RB but Kimmich, Gündogan, Kroos, Havertz, Brandt and Goretzka compete for a few midfield spots. Would also be easier for you to find a new CM than a new RB, I suppose.
But you don't compete with Dortmund and us if you want to sign those players from us. You compete with Barcelona, Madrid, PSG, Bayern, City, Liverpool and Juventus. Those are 7 clubs with significantly better perspective and comparable financial prowess.
Thing is, young talents will prefer Dortmund over you. Elite players will prefer the current elite clubs. You're left with those players who deem themselves too good for Dortmund and co. but aren't good enough to arouse the interest of the top players, like Aubameyang, Bruno Fernandes, etc.
I mean, we just need to take a look at the result. I wouldn't say that Dortmund squad, player by player, is weaker than yours. I think it's actually better with only Pogba and de Gea being clear starters at Dortmund while the top talents of Dortmund's team would walk into United starting eleven.
And yes, it's all about money. But a decision like Haaland's is better from a monetary perspective. Young players and their agents have understood that an additional 3-4 million more during the first 4-5 years of their careers is worth less when that'll cost you the very big contracts because your development has been disappointing.
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What a pile of nonsense.
Elite players rarely move clubs and ManUtd was never the destination for elite players, we signed players who had potential and made them into elite one. Rest all is just pile of nonsense based on nothing. Players who are not considered as elite today doesn't mean they won't be in the future. How many fans rated Salah, Mane, VVD, Robertson as elite players? They weren't good enough for Barca when they moved but they are more than good enough for Barca now.
This simple black and white version is just tedious.
Elite players rarely move clubs and ManUtd was never the destination for elite players, we signed players who had potential and made them into elite one. Rest all is just pile of nonsense based on nothing. Players who are not considered as elite today doesn't mean they won't be in the future. How many fans rated Salah, Mane, VVD, Robertson as elite players? They weren't good enough for Barca when they moved but they are more than good enough for Barca now.
This simple black and white version is just tedious.
I didn't expect the "we've always done it this way" fraction to comprehend that post
And yes, Salah and co. were never rated that way but what's your point? Of course you're able to sign that category of players, I never argued the opposite. We were talking about Haaland and similar talents.
I don't expect resident "Ronaldo vs messi" thread posters to make any sense in any post. So there you go, proving my point with every postI didn't expect the "we've always done it this way" fraction to comprehend that post
And yes, Salah and co. were never rated that way but what's your point? Of course you're able to sign that category of players, I never argued the opposite. We were talking about Haaland and similar talents.
My point is, your post is nonsense which sees everything in black or white scenario.
You don't even need to sign elite players or best youngsters to grow as a team. It's not difficult to see why I gave Mane and Salah as examples.
How many elite players even move clubs? It's negligible amount.
So you really have no point because Salah and Mane are Worldclass right now. Who knows what you mean by "Category of players?"I didn't expect the "we've always done it this way" fraction to comprehend that post
And yes, Salah and co. were never rated that way but what's your point? Of course you're able to sign that category of players, I never argued the opposite. We were talking about Haaland and similar talents.
At least the discussions in that thread have more quality than any exchange I had with you. Even Cal is more insightful regarding Ronaldo than you are regarding United. I guess you're just unable to take an at least somewhat neutral point of view when the topic is your favourite club.
Anyway, I think it's better we just ignore each other. You don't seem to be able to think outside the box and I can't stand that in discussions.
I have no point because Salah and Mane are world class now?
That reasoning is so absurd I don't even know what you mean by that. There's literally zero connection to what I wrote.Also this argument in itself is completely ridiculous because yours and Liverpool's transfer strategies when they were in a similar situation to you currently couldn't be further apart.
fecking hell, caf hitting new lows today.
Looking at your registering date I highly doubt that.
Must be outside the box reply
Well, we were able to sign Aubameyang just because his relationship with the Dortmund broke down, he was 29 and at his very peak, and also he didn't have other clubs came in for him if i remember right. Also we offered more money to him than Dortmund. That is all. There is nothing to rave about. He did not join us for ambition or football reason. Just a excellent player looked for his last big fat contract at the end of his career. In Haaland case it is completely different.
I think the main problem preventing players like Haaland signing for Manchester United would be to end in a situation like Pogba where they get stuck at a club that's regressing and they can't develop. So I don't understand the negative fixation about that clause, as it would help the player (and club) to move on if things don't work out after a couple of seasons and if things go good then you can always renegotiate his contract if his valuation has increased to extend his contract.
Dortmund sit 4th in the Bundesliga, but I guess leverkusen are not good enough to make up a 2 point gap.
Manutd will have the ambition to compete or win for the league, the project will be enticing for such players. Sancho and Haland know Dortmund is a stepping stone.
Ambition wise, how is United ambition a step back? Do Dortmund spend on players / wages to win the league of Champions league?
Or maybe they might want to try their trade in a more competitive league where other teams have a chance of winning the league than one team dominating year on year.
That's not how the PL works. There are different winners all the time, and we're in that bracket of potential winners. Just because Liverpool and City are currently on top people have forgotten about Chelsea, Leicester, Spurs coming 2nd, even Man Utd coming 2nd very recently. It's a league where no one can predict with certainty what will happen 2 years from now.
If we make a few adjustments, winning the league 2 or 3 years down the line isn't farfetched at all, as opposed to the Bundesliga where it's more set in stone that Bayern will win it most times.
To illustrate my point, wouldn't you say those players would be too good for the Liverpool of 3 or 4 years ago? And yet here we are.
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Money can solve a lot of problem that is for sure. Keep investing Man Utd will back to the top one day.
Bruno was a reported £45M base and £70K wages. Hardly ridiculous amount of money and easily sustainable for us. If this is how we’ll be moving in the future then it’s good.
United is a gargantuan club. Suggesting we should be ok with signing players with the prospect of letting them go after one or two years here is ridiculous despite of our current malaise. We are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and being ok with being a feeder club is certainly something we shouldn’t adopt.
This doesn’t even make sense in the context of what you were just told by the previous poster.
How much has Fernandes cost United? Five things to know…
- Man Utd confirmed they had reached an agreement with Sporting CP for Fernandes on Wednesday.
- The deal will cost the Red Devils an initial £46.5m.
- A further £21m will be payable to Sporting CP in add-ons.
- These include player participation bonuses, individual player prize bonuses and another £4.2m dependant on Untied’s performance in the Champions League.
67.5M is about right for a club like Man Utd. That is about the going rate for Man Utd nowadays for established player.
Sporting released official numbers, 10 million based on games and CL qualification, 15 million based on PL win, CL win, Ballon d'or winners.
Good chance they won't see much of those 15 million.
Hopefully they see every penny of it
Yeah that's what every ManUtd fan will wish for.
So can we get Haaland on loan?
Starts today. If continues at the current rate he’ll score 8 if he plays the full 90 
His stats will take a bombing today I guess. Sad to see his career go downhill so fast.Starts today. If continues at the current rate he’ll score 8 if he plays the full 90
Another one.
Not scored in the opening 20mins. Over rated.
edit: He scores as I post.
edit: He scores as I post.