I am pretty sure he tried his Ajax way in the very start, then changed his plans after that horrible start to last season. Disappointing.
ETH on United philosophy: “Built a side to play direct football”… “Impossible to play like Ajax”
- Thread starter FrenchRed
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Think he feels like he's been let down by those above him over the summer
The quotes are of no consequence. The more serious issues with the club are well known and remain unchanged. The ownership is committed to maximum revenue generation above all else and nothing comes a close second. ETH could be upgraded, sure, but why whom? Who would walk into the manager’s technical area and getter performances? No one.
Which results do the board want ? As far as I'm concerned the only results they only ever cared about are finishing top 4 which all managers post Fergie got anyway.
Last edited:
Now obvious why it looks like we don’t have a game plan.
Exactly what I said. Most of the excitement around him joining was to improve our style of play particularly the attack both in possession and positional football. The team had been crying out for this after SAF and some might even include the last two years of SAF in this.
We’ve been conned and if he’s accepting he can’t give us the main thing we were encouraged by then what’s the point of keeping him. Both Mourinho and Ole played transition football better than ETH.
Don't understand why it was closed. It's a valid question to ask. Maybe because it ended up just being a redundant extension of the main ETH thread.
He can not have any complaints about the summer business really. We have a squad of players to be doing a much better job than we are.
They obviously want more than that otherwise they'd have kept Ole.
If you think the decision makers at Man United care about playing like Ajax, fair enough. I think that's a borderline ridiculous assumption. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if some of those "decision makers" had never seen a single Dutch league match.
These comments are going to undermine him in the eyes of many who were giving him the benefit of the doubt, and will be ammunition for anyone who long thought he wasn’t up to the job.
It's weird as feck to me why everyone assumes Ten Hag is some kind of fanatically possession based 4-3-3 manager who has "abandoned his principles". He's a pragmatist. He plays the kind of football with which he thinks he can best win with the squad he has.
He got the Ajax job by punching far above his weight with Utrecht, playing nothing like Ajax, and in turn is trying to build something different again here. Whether he succeeds or not is a different matter, but the goal has never been to turn us into a clone of his Ajax side, any more than he wanted to turn Ajax into a clone of his Utrecht side. I don't understand why anybody would think it would be.
He got the Ajax job by punching far above his weight with Utrecht, playing nothing like Ajax, and in turn is trying to build something different again here. Whether he succeeds or not is a different matter, but the goal has never been to turn us into a clone of his Ajax side, any more than he wanted to turn Ajax into a clone of his Utrecht side. I don't understand why anybody would think it would be.
He’s dug his own grave here I think. One of the reason everyone was buzzing about ETH coming in was bringing the style of football with him.
It’s fecking depressing how every manager ends up this way tbh.
Also, I can’t help but wonder how much influence to play ‘the United way’ is coming from above (in fact he’s pretty much admitted as much). You would have to be a fecking idiot to come to another club and decide to abandon your entire fecking philosophy without outside influence.
It’s fecking depressing how every manager ends up this way tbh.
Also, I can’t help but wonder how much influence to play ‘the United way’ is coming from above (in fact he’s pretty much admitted as much). You would have to be a fecking idiot to come to another club and decide to abandon your entire fecking philosophy without outside influence.
He seems to want an out and instead of going full Mourinho, he is coming up with these absurd, inconsistent statements, that will get him the sack.
There's nothing inherently wrong with direct football. All the discussion around what type of game we use is mainly noise.
What matters is your quality. You can be direct or you can Brighton. Either can work but either can fail if you don’t do it with quality players.
One thing all systems need is more than one bloody CM on the pitch. Or in United's case at least one CM on the pitch.
What matters is your quality. You can be direct or you can Brighton. Either can work but either can fail if you don’t do it with quality players.
One thing all systems need is more than one bloody CM on the pitch. Or in United's case at least one CM on the pitch.
If they wanted more than that they would have sacked Ole immediately after losing the EL final.
Not playing like Ajax specifically but they definitely hired him to improve the style of play or play better and more watchable football than the dross played under Mourinho and Ole because guess it, playing entertaining football means more views and thus more money for them.
Also the next manager should be sacked instantly the moment they mention the Manchester United DNA.
This.
Another Dutch clown!
Okay, you can't play Ajax style football here because you don't have the players and want to go more direct, but the issue is you are failing at that too, and badly. No one is questioning you because of this "Ajay style" not being played, people are asking questions because you are failing miserably at your job after spending the gdp of a small nation to buy players. Where is this direct style of football? Where are the goals? Where is the pressing or the counter pressing (the hipster name for counter attacking football)? Where is the build-up?
A small time manager given a job much bigger than he can handle. The sooner he is let go, the better.
Although, given previous history: he is likely to get a contract renewal and then canned with a huge payout by the end of the season or early next season.
And this time the Glazers leeches have an excuse of waiting for Jimmy the Brit to do football.
Okay, you can't play Ajax style football here because you don't have the players and want to go more direct, but the issue is you are failing at that too, and badly. No one is questioning you because of this "Ajay style" not being played, people are asking questions because you are failing miserably at your job after spending the gdp of a small nation to buy players. Where is this direct style of football? Where are the goals? Where is the pressing or the counter pressing (the hipster name for counter attacking football)? Where is the build-up?
A small time manager given a job much bigger than he can handle. The sooner he is let go, the better.
Although, given previous history: he is likely to get a contract renewal and then canned with a huge payout by the end of the season or early next season.
And this time the Glazers leeches have an excuse of waiting for Jimmy the Brit to do football.
He's trying to do that though, isn't he? It's not working right now but wasn't last season an improvement in style? I dunno, maybe it wasn't, I'll certainly defer to you on that.
People seem to be taking him saying "we're not going to play like Ajax" as "I'm deliberately playing crap football" which I think is a big jump.
Last season for me was pretty overrated. We only played well for few months. We peaked with Barca and Newcastle final games then went down hill after that.
The squad that Ten Hag inherited was hardly set-up for possession heavy football. Of the current squad he inherited:
- Goalkeepers; Heaton.
- Centre-halves; Varane, Maguire, Lindelof.
- Fullbacks; Dalot, AWB, Shaw.
- Midfielders; McTominay, DvdB(
), Mainoo, Fernandes, Hannibal. - Wingers; Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho, Pellistri, Amad.
- Strikers; Martial.
To that he has added:
- Goalkeepers; Onana, Bayindir, Butland, Dubravka.
- Centre-halves; Evans, Martinez.
- Fullbacks; Reguilon, Malacia.
- Midfielders; Amrabat, Sabitzer, Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount.
- Wingers; Antony.
- Strikers; Hojlund, Weghorst.
We were miles off being able to be a ball dominant side when he came in and despite spending north of £400million we're not much closer. Maybe he's just a dud.
If he’s going to manage, he needs to start actually managing and own what he’s producing rather than waving his hands at vague external reasons for why he’s failing. I absolutely refuse to believe anybody has sat there and said “we must play the United way”. Absolute bullshit.
And if anybody votes to give him more of what he wants to implement it, given the absolute bullshit he’s wasted close to half a billion on already, they need their head examining.
And if anybody votes to give him more of what he wants to implement it, given the absolute bullshit he’s wasted close to half a billion on already, they need their head examining.
The only answer is to sack Ten Hag and hire Potter on the understanding that he will be sacked in November 2025. At this rate we might as well line up the next few managers in our two year boom busy cycle.
Thanks to Saints taking care of City. Had we faced them in the semis yet again they would've sent us packing.
Other than that no can argue that the football has been better under ETH. We play dogshite, don't create chances and never look like scoring. Under Ole we were genuinely fun to watch (apart from first half of 19/20 and the months before his sacking). Our attack looked world class and we regularly came from behind to win. We won all 5 matches at City and PSG under him, places few teams manage even a draw. With ETH the best we're hoping for in those kind of games is damage limitation, avoiding a tennis set score is a moral victory.
But did he really say he would play like Ajax? In that case it ís damning of course, but I didn't realize he actually wanted that. Especially after those first 3 games last year.
This club is such a joke.
I, and possibly many others, wanted him here based on the football he played at Ajax, and assumed that's what he is here to do when he was appointed. Instead, he is doing something else entirely? Was that the idea from the start or did it change later?
If that was the idea from the start, then why not get someone who knows how to play this brand of football already? And as for him, did he just decide to change his philosophy on a dime? "I have done this thing so far, and it has worked well for me, but now I will go to this other club to do this other thing that I have never done before"? And the club just goes with it?
If it changed later, what necessitated such a change? Is this "transitional and direct" rubbish a directive from the executive clowns? Is that because certain players are protected and can't be sold or even dropped, and they are the once deciding the style by their presence? I mean, this just doesn't make sense otherwise. If you don't have the players for your philosophy, you go out and buy them, and get rid of the ones that don't fit.
Yeah, my patience with this guy is hanging on by a thread after hearing this drivel. The "best team in transition" crap already set off plenty of alarms, but this is something else. He came here and just ditched his philosophy for whatever reason, and chose to play something else entirely. And what he is trying to play is simply rubbish. Bottom-half style football. Don't give me that garbage about how it's not actually counterattacking football i.e. "Oleball", and it's actually an ultra-special blah-blah football like the one Klopp is playing. We are playing nothing like that and we are utterly awful in possession.
I, and possibly many others, wanted him here based on the football he played at Ajax, and assumed that's what he is here to do when he was appointed. Instead, he is doing something else entirely? Was that the idea from the start or did it change later?
If that was the idea from the start, then why not get someone who knows how to play this brand of football already? And as for him, did he just decide to change his philosophy on a dime? "I have done this thing so far, and it has worked well for me, but now I will go to this other club to do this other thing that I have never done before"? And the club just goes with it?
If it changed later, what necessitated such a change? Is this "transitional and direct" rubbish a directive from the executive clowns? Is that because certain players are protected and can't be sold or even dropped, and they are the once deciding the style by their presence? I mean, this just doesn't make sense otherwise. If you don't have the players for your philosophy, you go out and buy them, and get rid of the ones that don't fit.
Yeah, my patience with this guy is hanging on by a thread after hearing this drivel. The "best team in transition" crap already set off plenty of alarms, but this is something else. He came here and just ditched his philosophy for whatever reason, and chose to play something else entirely. And what he is trying to play is simply rubbish. Bottom-half style football. Don't give me that garbage about how it's not actually counterattacking football i.e. "Oleball", and it's actually an ultra-special blah-blah football like the one Klopp is playing. We are playing nothing like that and we are utterly awful in possession.
Last edited:
This was discussed all summer. Many already said building to go overly direct would end in disaster. Maximizing our garbage, unreliable star instead of working to maximizing for the style that made us hire the coach in the first place. Foolish.
Ill boost my own ego cos why the fk not - I made the post 'Is the United Way killing us'. I think now we know that its 100 percent fact. We are fkd until we stop trying to be the old United and move on to current football.
I was shocked when i read the quote and then realized it's pretty fecking obvious and confirms what he said in the summer. A huge mistake and i think we all know how this ends. Nobody wanted a continuation of the kind of football we saw under Jose and Ole and their 'directness', most fans wanted a drastic change and if that meant getting rid of some big players that didn't fit the system then so be it.
Every fecking manager we've had except LVG has always been banging on about United's past and history instead of implementing their own vision. I wish people in the media would start calling out this United DNA rubbish and seeing its not helpful.
Every fecking manager we've had except LVG has always been banging on about United's past and history instead of implementing their own vision. I wish people in the media would start calling out this United DNA rubbish and seeing its not helpful.
I’m just done with him. The fact we have got no money will keep him here longer. I feel slowly it will start to turn toxic though.
Any video for the source of these quotes? ViaPlay apparently
I don't trust the Daily Mail
Bit of an overreaction even if it is true
I don't trust the Daily Mail
Bit of an overreaction even if it is true
Knew those comments would blow up.
Here. we. go.
Here. we. go.
Yeah same here. Been holding out hope that he intends to make us play in a more modern way but nope. Same shit. Might as well have stuck with Jose.
Yep, that is my issue as well. If he had argued that due to injuries, he's had to adapt the way we play, then I would buy that premise. That being said, arguing his squad is unable to play the way he instructs makes no sense considering he's had ample time, money spent and players invested in to build a squad of his design.
He's even finally signed the goalie he wanted, and still we are unable to play the way he prescribes. There is still no movement from our midfield.
I just can't believe he would have had some of these players on his list of potential signings. Onana and Mount absolutely but Amrabat and Evans? It's the equivalent of getting a branded pen or mug as a consolation prize on an 80s game show.
Rashford, I kind of agree. Bruno can be displaced easily, but you need to have an idea how to make it work with the players at your disposal. I thought getting Mount was the first step (at least I thought our coaches recognized the issue with relying on Bruno, and also the problem it generates). But the way we've been using him, and the team setup, doesn't make me think this is the case anymore.
Bruno will be very fast out of the team under new manager IMO, ETH has shot himself in the foot making him captain.
Anthony
Mount
Onana
Eriksen
Malakia
Lisandro Martinez
Amrabat
Høilund
All these should be able to play "Ajax" fotball. And this is the players he has brought in.
Casemiro is maybe the only one doesnt fit that good.
It could be made an argument that Rashford and Bruno doesnt fit it that good either. Our "stars"..
But i see no reason why he cant play more possession based fotball.
Atleast start working at the change as time goes by.
Mount
Onana
Eriksen
Malakia
Lisandro Martinez
Amrabat
Høilund
All these should be able to play "Ajax" fotball. And this is the players he has brought in.
Casemiro is maybe the only one doesnt fit that good.
It could be made an argument that Rashford and Bruno doesnt fit it that good either. Our "stars"..
But i see no reason why he cant play more possession based fotball.
Atleast start working at the change as time goes by.
It’s the pace we play at, ridiculously slow. It’s frustrating to watch the ball go wing then see Dalot pass it back to Bruno who goes back further to Maguire. It allows the opposition to get into space. It’s killing us. Why are we not utilising the pace of Rashford and Hojlund? Why do we leave if till injury time before the team shows any urgency?
Between these quotes and that starting line up yesterday his head as gone.
We can’t play like Ajax yet spends 400m buying ex colleagues. Surely it was his remit to play good football else what’s the point?
We can’t play like Ajax yet spends 400m buying ex colleagues. Surely it was his remit to play good football else what’s the point?