Rossa
Full Member
It's brilliant then how we have become rubbish at counter attacking football, and have transitioned into a team that are atrocious at defending transitions. So there's development there.
At this stage, I have no idea what he is trying to build. We have no identity in our play. Our players aren't good at anything. We're not bad at anything either, but we're simply quite average in most aspects of the game.Disagree with him. One thing Ralf Rangick was right about despite his terrible coaching spell here was that we needed a revolution. Building on what we had and attempting an revolution was never going to work because what we had actually wasn’t very good. If needed the whole team had to be torn up and replaced.
Seems to me as though this is a clear reason why he isn’t succeeding at United. We need a manager who realises that this DNA we seem to want to follow and the players we have who we are playing to suit, are simply not good enough. It’s a shame he hasn’t been the one to get it as I genuinely thought he was of that ilk.
I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my post but I will add that, whilst we clearly don't have the greatest backroom team in the World and there is a degree of uncertainty, none of this matters on the pitch between 15:00 and 17:00, strictly in relation to whether we look like a well-coached, well-organised unit.Mirrors the club and mirrors the current state of the squad
I agree, I just think they’re better for possession systems than Wan Bissaka and FernandesI don't think Dalot suits that style. Mount too - he maybe "tidy" on the ball and he maybe runs around a bit but so far, for what he's been bought, he hides too much. Whenever we try to build up play he somehow always finds an opponent to hide behind. The McT maneuver.
We know he's not adapting his Ajax style so you are saying he is adapting us to play like Utrect? Fkn genius. I know very little from his time there but I can sort of see similarities from what I do know. So he evolved his style at Ajax. We brought him based on his success at Ajax. He bought all his ex players from Ajax. Now he thinks fk it I'll turn them into Utrect! God save us all.Its not an experiment, he has played that way before
You misunderstand, I heavily blame him for the squad building, but I don’t blame him for now playing counterattacking football with the squad he hashe signed 7 of them so I do blame him
He isn't trying to implement a system that sees us dominate the ball though. We all know he's aiming for high press and transition, it's a given not some secret sauce you've revealing here.Which is exactly what he is trying to implement, that does not mean playing like Ajax though is it, you have to understand what he is saying.
People hearing the word transition and not understanding that transition is not always from deep, and is evident from what he says he wants to implement transition through a high press (which is dominating in opponents half)
Execution and implementation being poor does not mean the plan is a bad one.
No one is "gaslighting" two issues are clearly being conflated.
1. ETH has not been able to implement his plan effectively
2. ETH said he won't ever play like Ajax
3. ETH has also said in some instances he has to be more pragmatic (e.g when you have injuries etc)
Just be balanced
Such a mess compared to our 'rivals' who have physically good players in most of these positions.Direct football with:
- Anthony: who is not fast, can't dribble, has one feet, slows the game on every counter.
- Mount: slow as feck, no stand out quality.
- Amrabat: Deep in headlights. Again slow as feck and buckles under pressure. Passing range and vision are erratic.
- Martinez: Again slow and lacks in size to defend on counters.
- Malacia: Medicore, no attacking game, can't defend. Small in size.
- Onana: Not very good at long balls. Weird technique for a keeper.
- Casemiro: Not at an age where he can cover ground as a single pivot.
- Eriksen: Only a backup, never suited to start majority of the games; especially against top opposition.
- Evans: Shouldn't have been signed even as a back-up. Joke signing.
Then McTom (Was a DM in an earlier avatar and is now reborn as an attacking mid. Still shit) & Awb (Good at only one on one's & nothing else. Barely looks like a footballer) are regulars.
Yes. This sums it up well.I actually don’t mind the concept of playing a more direct style of football. I don’t expect us to be a City - lite team and would be more than happy to see us play a more aggressive, pro-active direct style of play similar to Liverpool. But, regardless, you still have to be able to assert your game on the opposition and control games of football. At the moment I am not seeing the product that the manager wants, if we weren’t particularly great at playing his ‘Ajax’ style of play then we certainly aren’t great at playing this more direct style at the moment either. He does need his defence back and then Id like to see what we can do but it doesn’t look great right now.
Ye it’s ok managers saying what they want to do and how they want to play but it’s a lot different putting it into action. I think he thought by signing ex players it will help him settle quicker and help his style of play along as they know it so well. The weird thing is In the first season we seen glimpses of it. Now he’s realised he’s stuck with players like Rashford who can’t play the way he wants and the club are gonna back Rashford over the managers.Between these quotes and that starting line up yesterday his head as gone.
We can’t play like Ajax yet spends 400m buying ex colleagues. Surely it was his remit to play good football else what’s the point?
We're transitioning into a Championship team and my god, we're going to be the best the world has ever seen at it.It's brilliant then how we have become rubbish at counter attacking football, and have transitioned into a team that are atrocious at defending transitions. So there's development there.
This is what happens when the manager has no accountability from anyone. Everyone just blames the board or Murtough. The manager can literally say whatever he wants and people make excuses for him.Bizarre comments tbh. He was literally hired because of the job he done at Ajax and the style of football he had them playing. Not to mention 4 or 5 of the players he’s brought in used to play for Ajax, so why bring them in if you didn’t want to recreate the same style here?
Then he needs to call this out. Drop Rashford who is literally taking the p*ss. He has nothing to lose at this point, as if he continues on current path he's toast and surely realises that.Ye it’s ok managers saying what they want to do and how they want to play but it’s a lot different putting it into action. I think he thought by signing ex players it will help him settle quicker and help his style of play along as they know it so well. The weird thing is In the first season we seen glimpses of it. Now he’s realised he’s stuck with players like Rashford who can’t play the way he wants and the club are gonna back Rashford over the managers.
True. I’d imagine Rashfords a big leader in the dressing room though. ETH will be scared to upset any more big players as that will literally be over if any more leaks come out.Then he needs to call this out. Drop Rashford who is literally taking the p*ss. He has nothing to lose at this point, as if he continues on current path he's toast and surely realises that.
I'm behind him, too. It's almost certain that most managers would struggle during this period. However, I do think the team we've had at our disposal, especially in the final third, should be creating more chances.I’m still behind ten hag. Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro’s form last season did a lot of heavy lifting. All 3 are having a shocker so far. Add to that the ownership situation/FFP fecking up the window, the disciplinary issues of Greenwood, Sancho and Antony, and the worst injury crisis I think I’ve ever seen at the club, you have to wonder if anyone else would do any better.
Because he probably now realized that the way Ajax play is mainly due to the fact that every academy graduate has been drilled for many years to play a certain system, thus making it easier to play a certain way. Combine that with signings that fit the playstyle or can be trained to fit the playstyle and you got success. It's waaaay harder to implement it at a club where basically every player has to trained to fit the playstyle. In the end it could work, but that would require a lot of time. But that will lead to bad results in the mean time. It's so much easier to play a certain way if it's in the clubs DNA, like Barcelona and Ajax.Bizarre comments tbh. He was literally hired because of the job he done at Ajax and the style of football he had them playing. Not to mention 4 or 5 of the players he’s brought in used to play for Ajax, so why bring them in if you didn’t want to recreate the same style here?
I think we're going to be the best at being a Championship team - not the best Championship team, in fairness.We're transitioning into a Championship team and my god, we're going to be the best the world has ever seen at it.
Agree. The comments would stand up if he hadn't signed so many players from his former clubs / league.Bizarre comments tbh. He was literally hired because of the job he done at Ajax and the style of football he had them playing. Not to mention 4 or 5 of the players he’s brought in used to play for Ajax, so why bring them in if you didn’t want to recreate the same style here?
It's because we dont have an established system of play. Other teams can change key players and there is very little difference in how the team plays.I'm behind him, too. It's almost certain that most managers would struggle during this period. However, I do think the team we've had at our disposal, especially in the final third, should be creating more chances.
I think this has been our problem for a number of years now, and something ten Hag, unfortunately, hasn't addressed. It wasn't spoken about that much last season because Rashford was scoring. Fast forward a season, Rashford isn't scoring, and no-one else looks like they're going to step up anytime soon.
I get that our defence is going to be quite leaky. We have a number of defenders out, but fans are entertained by chance creation and goals that we are yet to consistently see under ten Hag.
Im not sure how he's going to address it. By the way, I don't think it's a case of dropping Bruno and Rashford and it all of a sudden being fine because its much deeper than that.
I look at other teams like Brighton, Liverpool, Villa, etc, who are able to change players in the final third, but still have the ability to create chances at will. We don't do that, and ultimately, that falls on ten Hag, who needs to find a way. I mean, we have the worst GD (-5) in the the top 10.
Regardless of whether people think some of our attacking players are overrated, we should be creating a scoring more goals because that's what wins you games.
He’s essentially saying it’s because he has McTomminay and Maguire in his squad. I don’t understand why you can’t coach players to pass and move, it’s basics.Agree. The comments would stand up if he hadn't signed so many players from his former clubs / league.
Covering his arse so when he gets sacked he can point the finger at the club despite spending £400m on his own players that he’s decided now aren’t good enough.Ten Hag claims United are ‘on the way up’ despite chastening defeat by City
Erik ten Hag makes stunning confession that it's IMPOSSIBLE to make Man United play like his successful Ajax team
When the manager starts talking rubbish like this, you feel the end is near.
Pressing high while the structure leaves your team vulnerable isn't something to be lauded though. It just shows our pressing shape is suicidal because we often leave huge gaps behind the forward line anyways. And either way I was speaking more towards our creative and attacking stats not just how we press. For a "direct/transition" team, we don't do it particularly well.Well that is obviously not true given metrics around high turnovers and pressing this season. Results yes
Ironically, for me, that's the biggest problem. How can we be so reliant on a few players for performances. That's a major flaw and one that he's been shamelessly admitting. We are a club he literally had a manager who challenged regardless of difficulties with injuries. We had seasons where Rio and Vidic weren't fit. Where Scholes couldn't play. Where Rooney/ Ronaldo were hobbled. Where our key midfielders Keane and Scholes were injured, and we could always shell out decent performances even with those circumstances. For a manager to openly admit, that 1 or 2 defensive players could have such an impact, not on leaks, but on general performance is mind-blowing. This comes after last season Ronaldo lack of pressing was blamed for our poor performances for half a season. So literally everything has to be perfect for us to play well. That's not a good sign of the manager.Let's be fair to him.
The crux of his great performance last season derived from the fact that he employed AWB, Varane, Martinez and Shaw as a back four and could more or less rely upon his best defence to protect and build out from the back.
The question you have to ask yourself is the following:
Would this season have looked the same if the above four had been fit for most/all games?
Did you watch the actual interview. Bit over the top exaggeration from you there.Ten Hag claims United are ‘on the way up’ despite chastening defeat by City
Erik ten Hag makes stunning confession that it's IMPOSSIBLE to make Man United play like his successful Ajax team
When the manager starts talking rubbish like this, you feel the end is near.
Just bemusing comments. If that's the case then why did he sign the players he did, a number of which from Ajax no less? Feeble attempt at saving face by the looks of it.
I'm with you both on this one. To me it is the words of a guy that is deeply in self preservation mode right now - almost as though he's sending a message to potential future suitors that this isn't his fault or he is capable of better but can't do it here.Covering his arse so when he gets sacked he can point the finger at the club despite spending £400m on his own players that he’s decided now aren’t good enough.
I'm sorry, but this makes very little sense.We will never play the football we played at Ajax here,' he told ViaPlay after the defeat. 'I now have other players, that's not why I came here.'
He is the one that has brought McTominay back in. At the expense of Mount, who he made his number one target.He’s essentially saying it’s because he has McTomminay and Maguire in his squad. I don’t understand why you can’t coach players to pass and move, it’s basics.
I dont think McTominays presence over Mount is a long term move this season. Let's wait and see how that unfolds.He is the one that has brought McTominay back in. At the expense of Mount, who he made his number one target.
If he actually believes the Ajax comment, then i think its probably more to do with Rashford and Bruno.
United is an issue, but we don't know how ETH views this. Maybe he didn't like the way things were done at Ajax so before he got the United job he insisted on full control. Or maybe he had a look at United and figured he doesn't trust the system we have here.He didn't at his previous club, there is a common denominator here and that's United
The Ajax comments were made to Dutch media, i beleive.Did you watch the actual interview. Bit over the top exaggeration from you there.
Why is he playing McTominay in that more advanced midfield role? And why did sub Amrabat and move McTominay into the dm role?I dont think McTominays presence over Mount is a long term move this season. Let's wait and see how that unfolds.