Ethnic Cleansing in Myanmar

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
What's saddened me a lot about this situation is how many Burmese on social media etc have come out justifying what's happening. 'Make sure they get all the help they can get'? 400,000 of them have been forced to flee for their lives with nothing but their bare possessions in the last month alone. Who knows how many have been killed since you're not allowing journalists in there. You want to help Rohingyas? Don't make me laugh.

All you're doing is trying to white wash what's happening, there's no justification at all to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of people - mostly poor men, women, children, many carrying the elderly. All you have to do is take one look at all the people streaming into the refugee camps to see that.

This is a stain on Myanmar, and their people, and will always be. It's just a shame that the Rohingya have no one to stand up for them, because the people that's meant to look after them (Myanmar) are the same people persecuting them. I'll be happier once all the Rohingya have left Myanmar, because it's a terrible country. Bangladesh isn't a particularly great country either but at least they have the humanity to let the refugees in.

Things like 'Many could be playing refugees to get aid which is not unusual for them as we all know' is just disgusting to say imo. Your posts are rubbish and I'm sorry you're posting these whitewashing lies here. 'Like I said, most of Burmese reporters would not write stuff like that usually as they know more. Most concluded that most of their villages were burnt down by terrorists who ran and hid in those villages to create chaos around and put the blame on the government.' Except you know, it's been proven by the BBC that those images of 'muslims' burning their own villages were actually Hindus told to dress up and do so by Myanmar. Maybe try actually reading impartial media rather than the media from a state committing atrocities? Here you go http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-41219840/who-is-burning-down-rohingya-villages twitter.com/pakhead/status/906802269357608960
Here we go again.

I am white washing things? Saying that everyone should get the help they can get and find ways to solve it. But, no it should not be my real wish. Ok. And what is your wish?

Btw, I love some people on forums trying to argue shit that they have no idea. Even against people who involve with the situations one way or another.

I mean not everyone can be right in this kind of issue. Obviously it is why this shit is huge and happening for decades. But Funny, how those people dismiss other people experiences and knowledge as BS as it does not fit how they want to tell their own narrative from far away while trying to see things with one eye open only.

And I am the one who is whitewashing.
 
Last edited:

marktan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
6,935
Here we go again.

I am white washing things? Saying that everyone should get the help they can get and find ways to solve it. But, no it should not be my real wish. Ok. And what is your wish?

Btw, I love some people on forums trying to argue shit that they have no idea. Even against people who involve with the situations one way or another.

I mean not everyone can be right in this kind of issue. Obviously it is why this shit is huge and happening for decades. But Funny, how those people dismiss other people experiences and knowledge as BS as it does not fit how they want to tell their own narrative from far away while trying to see things with one eye open only.

And I am the one who is whitewashing.
What was the point of this reply? You didn't reply to a single point I made, instead coming out with generic phrases like 'not everyone can be right'. Just because you say people on forums don't have any idea, doesn't make it so. I've been following the situation closely for a long while.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
Professor of Asian and Military history, Department of history, School of Oriental and African studies, University of London.
I suppose that clip is about how 'ronhinga' were there since whenever etc.

It is obviously a version of history.

But, it is widely accepted that there have been muslims living in and around what they call rakhine state since way before. When I say muslims, it is including rakhinese and other ethics too obviously.

They say that under british rule, many east indians were brought by the british and some left behind when they were gone from the region. They say they think it was when things got a bit complicated.

It got more complicated when some of them wanted to form a state there to aling with pakistan back then when Burmese government had none of it.

By 1960s, they called themselves as Rohinga where many said there was no such name in almost any historic text till then.

As we know that many rakhinese and a few others didn't accept them as one of the official ethic groups of the country then the religion things got in. Both ethic groups stay within their own culture which makes things worse in such a small place. Then more and more extreme religions groups coming in to the pic lately and it got worse and worse. Though almost anywhere else in Burma, there is pretty much no harm to or significant discrimination over Muslims or Christians or any other religion.

Burma is one of the countries that does not give you a citizenship over birth. Your parents have to be citizens for you to become one.

A law came out in 1982 made it harder for them and a few as by then socialist government wanted to kick out anyone that were not eligible for citizenship.

Those were stupid laws obviously and what more stupid is that we can't change it atm.

In 2010s, there were attempts and missions to solve this problem at least temporarily by giving them some verified residents, some citizenship etc. It was reported that a lot of them didn't take it because they want nothing other than citizenship or some believed they still want their own state etc.

Su kyi has around 70% in congress but you need like over 75% approval to pass certain law or make any change to some. She will never get more than 75% due to military members getting 25% by default and su kyi has been trying to change it but so far no success and no one knows if it will change soon or ever. The military member will say pretty much no to su kyi out of their own principle and being stupid.

But, imo, being citizen or an official ethic group does not change anything for anyone there as long as the tensions between all groups does not go down. It is a very poor state. It needs to develop, create jobs, better living standards etc so that they can focus on other better things in life than getting angry at each other for taking lands and jobs that almost don't exist.

Also birth rate among rohinga is pretty high according to survey and personal experiences from doctors and NGO members. Giving births when you have nothing to eat is not probably an ideal situation to any. Reports say 2/3 of them who went to Bangladesh were children. Also makes Rakhineses to have panic thinking like they are trying to take over.

And, the current burmese economy can't achieve it atm and the shit will keep happening then people will keep blaming on whoever is in charge. In the end people living there will suffer as always.
 
Last edited:

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
What was the point of this reply? You didn't reply to a single point I made, instead coming out with generic phrases like 'not everyone can be right'. Just because you say people on forums don't have any idea, doesn't make it so. I've been following the situation closely for a long while.
The point of reply is that use a bit of common sense. Nothing is so black and white. That's all.
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
So you want to the vicious cycle to keep on rolling along ? Although i can see where your coming from.
If the cycle involves a bit of payback, I would absolutely love to see that happen. Feck morals when the genocide is one sided. My parents country went through this during their independence and the people had to fight back just to exist.
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
I am not justifying the supposed horrible things anyone did from any sides. I just don't like your tone in some of your posts wishing the worst for the whole country and shit.

I just don't think it is right to brand the whole thing and people with the worst shit possible without knowing inside and out of the region, ethics groups, government and military history and positions.

Because people have done it in the past and it never solves anything.

I suppose I should have been more clear with what I wanted to say without going too much details which sounds like I am ok with using a bit of violence around. I am not ok with it.

I am not exactly a huge supporter of Su kyi. In fact i am not with any politicans anywhere. But, su kyi is the key to solve a lot of problems like that which has been there for decades in the country.

She is being pragmatic about the situation because she has to due to make sure she still has a position in the country politic to do something even for a tiny change to put the country in the right path.

It is a very complicated issue. And putting negative pressure on the government would make things worse, and some of the stuff media have been writing would be seen as very bias for some other ethic groups there and would only fuel the situation worse. Just like what you posted. You can't force it. You have to persuade while trying to make sure their living standard gets better for everyone who lives there including rohingas.

Otherwise, it will keep happen till the end like it has for past 70 years.

Again, I am not ok with any kind of violence with anything. It does not matter if a victim is a rohiga or rakhinese or other ethic groups, they are still human just like us. We need to make sure they get all the help they could get. And I hope everyone gives right responses to solve this horrible conflict.
You were justifying and backing the genocide in your earlier posts, making excuses after excuses. So my hope is to see your people, and your country suffer as much as these people are suffering. I am not taking the moral high ground on this, no crime should go unpunished.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
You were justifying and backing the genocide in your earlier posts, making excuses after excuses. So my hope is to see your people, and your country suffer as much as these people are suffering. I am not taking the moral high ground on this, no crime should go unpunished.
Let me repeat it again. I am not justifying anything like a genocide.

You see it freedom fighting maybe. But, I don't especially dozens of stations and villages next to them got raid and around 100 mostly civilians were killed in one night. (something people here or on the media rarely mentioned or even know.) They are connected to some extremist groups from pakistan and some were even being trained there.

You don't need to wish us sufferings. We have it enough our own. The country has had lots and lots of insurgent problems all over the places at the same time since 1948 when it got independence and countless have lost.

In many ways, people wish those groups would leave them alone and disappeared. Roahinga salavation army or whatever name they used all over the years have been one of them. They don't solve any problem around there for anyone. If anything, they made it worse.

You can back counter terrorism without supporting a genocide.
 
Last edited:

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
Let me repeat it again. I am not justifying anything like a genocide.

You see it freedom fighting maybe. But, I don't especially dozens of stations and villages next to them got raid and around 100 mostly civilians were killed in one night. (something people here or on the media rarely mentioned or even know.) They are connected to some extremist groups from pakistan and some were even being trained there.

You don't need to wish us sufferings. We have it enough our own. The country has had lots and lots of insurgent problems all over the places at the same time since 1948 when it got independence and countless have lost.

In many ways, people wish those groups would leave them alone and disappeared. Roahinga salavation army or whatever name they used all over the years have been one of them. They don't solve any problem around there for anyone. If anything, they made it worse.

You can back counter terrorism without supporting a genocide.
Kicking out over 3 hundred thousand people, burning villages and murdering thousands is counter terrorism to you? Old men, women, children and infants are terrorists to you?

Read this article one such article about these Rohingya people and tell me that it's not true. These people have been living there for centuries.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/18/16312054/rohingya-muslims-myanmar-refugees-violence
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
Kicking out over 3 hundred thousand people, burning villages and murdering thousands is counter terrorism to you? Old men, women, children and infants are terrorists to you?

Read this article one such article about these Rohingya people and tell me that it's not true. These people have been living there for centuries.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/18/16312054/rohingya-muslims-myanmar-refugees-violence
I don't need to read a lot to learn how bad rohinga got in this situation. I know they are in a very bad situation.

But, you are holding onto your belief by some media who actually said they had no access to the areas but seemed to know everything for sure. Of course the fleeting rohinga would not say anything favourable to Burmese troops. Why would they?

That does not mean they lied outright obviously. But, are they right about everything and how much truths in it?

So, is there a point for me to keep telling you that I am all for counter terrorism without preferably losing a single innocent soul.

Again, that does not make me someone who backs a genocide or anything close to it.

Also, history fact or lesson to you, rohinga uprising started just even before Burma got independence. They made local ethics including innocent rohinga to fled the area all the time and countless people were murdered violently before anyone from Burmese government did anything.

And so these terrorist groups are achieving nothing but to make their own and others suffer more.

Do you condemn those group's horrible doings as well?
 
Last edited:

VidaRed

Unimaginative FC
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
29,612
Timeline: Being Rohingya in Myanmar, from 1784 to Now

As Rohingya people continue to flee Rakhine State and allege widespread persecution, a look at their struggle through the years.

Arakan (now Rakhine State) is a state in Myanmar (the former Burma) adjoining Bangladesh. It is a strip of land along the eastern coast of the Bay of Bengal from the Naf river on the border of Chittagong to the cape Negarise. It lies between the Arakan Yuma range and the Bay of Bengal. It is separated from the rest of Myanmar by the Yuma range running north to south. The total area of Arakan is 13,540 square miles and its population almost 2,000,000. And it is here that politics and violence around the Rohingya and their identity has been playing out for centuries.

Eight century

The Rohingya, a people of South Asian origin, dwell in an independent kingdom in Arakan, known as Rakhine State in modern-day Myanmar (the former Burma).

Ninth to 14th century

The Rohingya reportedly came into contact with Islam through Arab traders. Ties forged between Arakan and East Bengal.

1057

King Anawrahta founds first unified Burmese state at Pagan and adopts Theravada Buddhism.

1784

Burman King Bodawpaya conquers Arakan and refugees flee to Bengal.

1790

Captain Hiram Cox sent as emissary to the Burmese king in Mandalay to secure British trading interests. He is told to settle the century-long conflict between Arakan refugees and local Rakhines by rehabilitating refugees in the area that later became East Pakistan and then Bangladesh. He established town of Cox’s Bazar, where groups with ties to Rohingya live today.

1824-26

First Anglo-Burmese war ends with the Treaty of Yandabo, according to which Burma cedes the Arakan coastal strip, between Chittagong and Cape Negrais, to British India.

1852

Second Anglo-Burmese war ends with British annexation of lower Burma, including Rangoon.

1885-86

Britain captures Mandalay after third Anglo-Burmese war; Burma becomes a province of British India.

1911

In the 1911 census, Rohingya are included with the Indian population as an ethnic group of Indian origin.

1921

Census of 1921 categorises Rohingya as Arakanese.

1937

Britain separates Burma from India and makes it a crown colony.

1942

Japan occupies Burma with help from the Japanese-trained Burma Independence Army (BIA). As the British retreat, Burmese nationalists attack Muslim communities whom they accuse of benefiting from British colonial rule. BIA later transforms into the Anti-Fascist People’s Freedom League (AFPFL) and resists Japanese rule.

1945

Britain liberates Burma from Japanese occupation with help of Burmese nationalists led by Aung San (father of Aung San Suu Kyi) and Rohingya fighters, who feel betrayed as the British don’t fulfil their promise of autonomy for Arakan.

1947

Aung San and six members of his interim government assassinated by political opponents led by U Saw, a nationalist rival. U Nu, foreign minister in Ba Maw’s government, which ruled Burma during the Japanese occupation, asked to head the AFPFL and the government.

1948

Burma becomes independent with U Nu as prime minister. In its first year, the new Republic of the Union of Burma is on the brink of collapse. In the east, ethnic Karen military units mutiny and turn their guns on the central government. Communist rebels with urban roots rise in the lowlands, around Rangoon. They become a rural insurgency later after a split between red and white flag movements (red flag becomes underground and long-term struggle), followed by an eventual shift to Shan State.

The Burmese military manages to hold key terrain, but the insurgencies have held out for generations beyond the lowlands, and even in some lowland areas (like the delta for a while with KNU), with profound implications for the subsequent development of the state.

Tensions exist with the Rohingya, many of whom wanted Arakan to join Muslim-majority Pakistan. The government retaliates by removing Rohingya civil servants. As a result of Rangoon’s preoccupation with insurgent groups in lower and central Burma, the Mujahid revolt grew rapidly. At one stage, most of Arakan was in the hands of this and other rebel groups.

1950

Some Rohingya resist the government, led by armed groups called Mujahids. The insurgencies gradually collapse.

1958-60

A caretaker government comes to power, led by army Chief of Staff General Ne Win, following a split in the ruling AFPFL party.

1960

U Nu’s party faction wins a decisive victory in the elections, but his promotion of Buddhism as the state religion and tolerance of separatism angers the military.

1962

In March 1962, arguing that Burma’s squabbling politicians are unable to hold the country together, the military, or Tatmadaw, seizes power in a coup, initiating more than half a century of military rule. U Nu’s faction is ousted in the military coup led by General Ne Win, who abolishes federal system and inaugurates “the Burmese Way to Socialism” – nationalising the economy, forming a single-party state and banning independent newspapers. The junta takes a hard line against the Rohingya.

1963
Drawing on the Mujahid tradition (and some of its former members), the Rohingya Independence Force (RIF) is created to protest against Ne Win’s military coup and the banning of Muslim organisations like the Rohingya Students’ Union and the Rohingya Youth League.

1974

The new constitution comes into effect, transferring power from the armed forces to a People’s Assembly headed by Ne Win and other former military leaders.

A writer for the Far Eastern Economic Review writes that the “Burmese Way to Socialism” and its dominant characteristics – ethnic chauvinism and economic autarky – were a reaction to the British colonial period, when migrants and ethnic minority peoples had been empowered at the expense of the lowland Burman majority.

The Rohingya Patriotic Front (RPF), a later version of the RIF, is created. It seeks the creation of an independent Muslim state near Bangladesh. It also champions the cause of the disadvantaged Muslims in Arakan, but has little real impact on events and later splits into several factions.

Body of former United Nations secretary-general U Thant is returned to Burma for burial. In response to the Burmese military’s refusal to give him a state funeral, student activists from the Rangoon Arts and Sciences University (RASU) take away his body from the official procession. The government storms the university grounds and seizes the body. Citywide riots follow this crackdown, and the government declares martial law.

1975

Opposition National Democratic Front is formed by regionally-based minority groups, who mount guerrilla insurgencies.

About 15,000 Rohingya flee into Bangladesh to escape persecution.

1977

The junta begins Operation Nagamin or Dragon King, which they say is aimed at screening the population for foreigners. More than 200,000 Rohingya flee to Bangladesh, amid allegations of army abuses. The army denies any wrongdoing.

1978

A massive military operation forces another 200,000 Rohingya to flee into Bangladesh. This operation includes the forced relocation of Muslim villagers and is accompanied by widespread looting, rape, arson and the desecration of mosques.

Bangladesh strikes a UN-brokered deal with Burma for the repatriation of refugees, under which most Rohingya return. Many are later resettled in Arakan State, but similar operations are staged in 1989, 1991-92 and again in 2002.

1981

Ne Win relinquishes the presidency to San Yu, a retired general, but continues as chairman of the ruling Socialist Programme Party.

1982

Myanmar nationality law recognises three categories of citizens: citizen, associate citizen and naturalised citizen. Citizens, as defined by the 1947 constitution, are persons who belong to an “indigenous race”, or lived in British Burma prior to 1942. Non-citizens are given a Foreign Registration Card. Citizens whose parents hold FRCs are not allowed to run for public office. The law does not recognise the Rohingya as one of the 135 legally-recognised ethnic groups of Myanmar, thus denying most of their Myanmar citizenship.

A faction of the RPF founds the Rohingya Solidarity Organisation (RSO).

1986

RSO splinters, and Arakan Rohingya Islamic Front (ARIF) is formed.

1988

Thousands of people are killed in anti-government riots after currency devaluation wipes out many people’s savings. The powerful State Law and Order Restoration Council (SLORC) is formed by General Saw Maung.

1989

SLORC declares martial law, arrests thousands of people, including advocates of democracy and human rights and renames Burma ‘Myanmar’, with the capital, Rangoon, becoming Yangon. National League for Democracy (NLD) leader Aung San Suu Kyi, daughter of Aung San, is put under house arrest.

1990

NLD wins landslide victory in general election, but the result is ignored by the military.

1991

Suu Kyi awarded Nobel Peace Prize for her commitment to peaceful change.

More than 250,000 Rohingya refugees flee what they said was forced labour, rape and religious persecution at the hands of the Myanmar army in Rakhine. On this occasion the plight of the Rohingya sparks rare public comment from the Association of South East Asian Nations’ (ASEAN) three Islamic member states, some Middle Eastern countries and non-governmental organisations like the Mecca- based Rabita-al-Alam-I-Islami (Muslim World League).

1992

General Than Shwe replaces General Saw Maung as SLORC chairman, prime minister and defence minister. Several political prisoners are freed in bid to improve Myanmar’s international image.

Rangoon is forced to cut another deal with the UNHCR and agree to take the refugees back. Between 1992-2004, about 230,000 Rohingya are voluntarily repatriated to Burma under the auspices of the United Nations, but serious problems remain.

1995

Suu Kyi is released from house arrest after six years.

RSO and ARIF merge again to become the Rohingya National Alliance.

1996

Suu Kyi attends first NLD congress since her release; SLORC arrests more than 200 delegates on their way to party congress.

1992 – 1997

Around 230,000 Rohingya returned to Arakan, now known as Rakhine, under another repatriation agreement.

1997

Burma admitted to the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN); SLORC renamed State Peace and Development Council (SPDC).

Rohingya National Alliance becomes the Arakan Rohingya National Organisation (ARNO).

1998 – 300

NLD members released from prison; ruling council refuses to comply with NLD deadline for convening of parliament; student demonstrations broken up.

1999

Suu Kyi rejects ruling council conditions to visit her British husband, Michael Aris, who dies of cancer in the UK.

September 2000

Ruling council lifts restrictions on movements of Suu Kyi and senior NLD members. Suu Kyi begins secret talks with ruling council.

The RSO name is claimed by three factions that emerged from the breakup of ARNO.

2001

Ruling council releases some 200 pro-democracy activists. Government says releases reflect progress in talks with opposition NLD leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who remains under house arrest.

February 2001

Burmese army, Shan rebels clash on Thai border.

June 2001

Then Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra visits, says relations are back on track.

May 2002

Suu Kyi released after nearly 20 months of house arrest.

August 2003

Khin Nyunt becomes prime minister. He proposes holding a convention in 2004 on drafting a new constitution as part of the “road map” to democracy.

November 2003

Five senior NLD leaders released from house arrest after visit of UN human rights envoy.

The junta’s ‘Roadmap to Discipline-Flourishing Democracy’ and President Thein Sein’s tweaks represented not a capitulation but an orderly withdrawal to the 2008 Constitution. This guarantees the Tatmadaw a quarter of the seats in parliament, and thus a de facto veto on any amendments, which require a 75% vote. It also bars Suu Kyi from the office of president, due to her marriage to a foreigner.

January 2004

Government and Karen National Union – the most significant ethnic group fighting the government – agree to end hostilities.

May 2004

Constitutional convention begins, despite boycott by NLD whose leader Suu Kyi remains under house arrest. The convention adjourns in July.

October 2004

General Khin Nyunt is replaced as prime minister amid reports of a power struggle. He is placed under house arrest.

November 2004

Leading dissidents are freed as part of a release of thousands of prisoners, including Min Ko Naing, who led the 1988 pro-democracy student demonstrations. Later becomes one of the anti-Rohingya politicians.

January 2007

China and Russia veto a draft US resolution at the UN Security Council urging Myanmar to stop persecuting minority and opposition groups.

April 2007

Myanmar and North Korea restore diplomatic ties 24 years after Rangoon broke them off, accusing North Korean agents of staging a deadly bomb attack against the visiting South Korean president.

May 2007

Suu Kyi’s house arrest is extended for another year.

August 2007

Wave of public dissent is sparked by fuel price hikes. Dozens of activists are arrested.

Buddhist monks come out on the street, in a move prematurely dubbed the “Saffron Revolution.”

September 2007

The military government declares 14 years of constitutional talks complete and closes the National Convention.

October 2007

Normality returns to Rangoon amid heavy military presence. Monks are absent, after thousands are reportedly rounded up.

January 2008

A series of bomb blasts hits the country. State media blames “insurgent destructionists”, including ethnic Karen rebels.

April 2008

Government publishes proposed new constitution, which allocates a quarter of seats in parliament to the military and bans opposition leader Suu Kyi from holding office.

May 2008

Cyclone Nargis kills approximately 300,000, referendum on the 2008 constitution is held the same week, “passed” at 98% amid international condemnation of the process being a fraud.

November 2008

Dozens of political activists given sentences of up to 65 years in series of secretive trials.

December 2008

Government signs deal with consortium of four foreign firms to pipe natural gas into neighbouring China, despite protests from human rights groups.

January 2009

Thailand expels hundreds of members of the Muslim Rohingya minority who appeared off its coast. Myanmar denies the minority’s existence. Several hundred Rohingya are subsequently rescued from boats off the coast of Indonesia.

April 2009

NLD, the main opposition group, offers to take part in planned elections if the government frees all political prisoners, changes the constitution and admits international observers.

August 2009

Suu Kyi is convicted of breaching conditions of her house arrest following a visit by an uninvited US national in May. The initial sentence of three years’ imprisonment is commuted to 18 months’ house arrest.

September 2009

US secretary of state Hillary Clinton announces plans for engagement with military rulers.

October 2009

Suu Kyi begins talks with Myanmar’s military leaders and is allowed to meet Western diplomats.

February 2010

The authorities free NLD vice-chairman Tin Oo. Suu Kyi’s deputy had spent more than a decade in prison or under house arrest.

March 2010

Government announces that the long-awaited election laws have been passed, with provisions for an electoral commission handpicked by the junta.

October 2010

Government changes country’s flag, national anthem and official name

November 2010

Military-backed party Union Solidarity and Development Party (USDP) claims victory in first election in 20 years. Opposition groups allege widespread fraud and the election is condemned as a sham. A week after the election, Suu Kyi – who had been prevented from taking part – is released from house arrest.

March 2011

Thein Sein is sworn in as president of a new, nominally civilian government.

September 2011

Bowing to protest, the regime cancels a controversial Chinese hydropower project in Kachin State in the north.

October 2011

Some political prisoners are freed as part of a general amnesty. New labour laws allowing unions are passed.

November 2011

Suu Kyi says she will stand for election to parliament, as her party rejoins the political process

January 2012

Government signs ceasefire with rebels of Karen ethnic group. Partly-free elections held. Government also cancels a major coal-fired power plant in Dawei after large-scale opposition on the ground, the second major victory for civil society in the Thein Sein period.

April 2012

NLD candidates sweep the board in parliamentary by-elections, with Suu Kyi elected. The EU suspends all non-military sanctions against Burma for a year.

June 2012

Sectarian violence in June is sparked by the rape and murder on May 28, 2012 of a 28-year-old Arakanese woman by three Muslim men in Ramri Township. On June 3, a large group of Arakanese villagers in Toungop town, southeast of Ramri, stopp a bus and beat and kill ten Muslims on board.

Deadly violence erupts between ethnic Arakanese Buddhists and Rohingya Muslims in Arakan State, with sectarian clashes in four townships. President Thein Sein declares a state of emergency after the death of 88 people and displacement of 90,000.

Rohingya are refused citizenship by successive Burmese governments, including the new NLD administration, who assert they are all illegal “sneak ins” from Bangladesh. This sentiment is inflamed by radical nationalists in the Buddhist sangha, who argue that a rising Muslim population threatens to swamp the country.

July 2012

President Thein Sein tells the UNHCR that the government will take responsibility for its own ethnic nationalities, but it is “not at all possible to recognise the illegal border-crossing Rohingya who are not our ethnicity.” He says the Rohingya pose a threat to national security and that they should be resettled in any third country that is “willing to take them.”

July 2012

The UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay expresses concern over reports of human rights violations committed by security forces in Arakan/Rakhine State against Muslims, particularly the Rohingya, and calls for a prompt, independent investigation.

August 2012

UN special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar Tomás Ojea Quintana calls for an independent investigation into allegations of human rights abuses and excessive use of force by security and police in response to the June violence

August 2012

President Thein Sein sets up a commission to investigate the violence between Rakhine Buddhists and Rohingya Muslims in the west, in which dozens have died. Myanmar abolishes pre-publication media censorship.

September 2012

Moe Thee Zun, the leader of student protests in 1988, returns from exile after Burma removed 2,082 people from its blacklist.
 

VidaRed

Unimaginative FC
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
29,612
October 2012

The All-Arakanese Monks’ Solidarity Conference is held in Sittwe. The monks, who hold very high moral authority among the Arakanese Buddhist population, issue a virulently anti-Rohingya statement that urges townships to band together to “help solve” the “problem.”

Sectarian violence reignites across nine townships in Arakan/Rakhine State, displacing another 35,000 people, mostly Muslims. Human Rights Watch reports that the October attacks against Rohingya and Kaman Muslim communities were organised, incited and committed by local Arakanese political party operatives, the Buddhist monkhood and ordinary Arakanese, at times directly supported by state security forces. Rohingya men, women and children are killed, some buried in mass graves, and their villages and neighbourhoods are razed.

“First the soldiers told us, ‘Do not do anything, we will protect you, we will save you,’ so we trusted them,” a 25-year-old survivor told Human Rights Watch. “But later they broke that promise. The Arakanese beat and killed us very easily. The security did not protect us from them.”

ASEAN secretary-general Surin Pitsuwan says that the government of Myanmar has rejected an offer by ASEAN to open tripartite talks between ASEAN, the UN and the government aimed at quelling the violence in Arakan/Rakhine State.

The violence since June displaced at least 125,000 Rohingya and other Muslims, and a smaller number of Arakanese, to internally displaced persons (IDP) camps.

November 2012

Navi Pillay calls upon the government of Burma/Myanmar to review the 1982 Citizenship Law, which rendered Rohingya Muslims stateless, “to ensure that Rohingya have equal access to citizenship.”

The UN General Assembly adopts a resolution on the human rights situation in Burma/Myanmar, expressing concern about ongoing violations and calling upon the government “to address the continuing armed conflict in Kachin State and the outbreak of deadly violence in Rakhine State, and the discrimination and human rights violations affecting ethnic minorities, especially the Rohingya.”

The ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Myanmar Caucus releases a statement welcoming the November 26 General Assembly resolution and saying that the government’s refusal to recognise the Rohingya could exacerbate inter-communal tensions and the spread of violence.

Rohingya men accused of raping and killing a Buddhist woman. Buddhist nationalists respond by burning Rohingya homes, killing more than 280 people and displacing tens of thousands. Human Rights Watch characterised the anti-Rohingya violence as “crimes against humanity” carried out as part of a “campaign of ethnic cleansing.”

US President Barack Obama visits to offer “the hand of friendship” in return for more reforms. He urges reconciliation with the Rohingya minority.

Rioting between Rohingya and Rakhine Buddhists killed more than 100 people, mostly Rohingya. Tens of thousands of people were driven into Bangladesh. Nearly 150,000 were forced into camps in Rakhine.

January-February 2013

The army surrounds Laiza, the biggest town controlled by Kachin rebels. The government and rebels agree to disengage and start a political dialogue after China-sponsored talks.

March 2013

Inter-communal violence between Buddhists and Muslims engulfs the town of Meiktila and sweeps through several other regions, killing at least 40 and displacing another 12,000. President Thein Sein declares a state of emergency in Meiktila.

Satellite images obtained by Human Rights Watch from just five of the 13 townships that experienced violence since June 2012 show 27 unique zones of destruction. Images of affected areas in Sittwe, depicting destruction that occurred in June 2012, show 2,558 destroyed structures. Those from four of the nince townships that experienced violence in October show 2,304 destroyed structures. This partial picture of the violence means that at least 4,862 structures were destroyed in Arakan State since June, altogether covering 348 acres of mostly residential property.

The UN Human Rights Council adopts a resolution urging the government to ensure accountability for those responsible for violence in Arakan/Rakhine State, facilitate effective humanitarian assistance and end discrimination against Rohingya.

UN special papporteur on human rights in Myanmar expresses concern over the spread of violence between Muslim and Buddhist communities and calls upon the government to take immediate action to stop it from spreading. He says the government has not done enough to address the spread of discrimination and prejudice against Muslim communities.

April 2013

The EU lifts all sanctions against Burma/Myanmar with the exception of the arms embargo and the embargo on equipment which might be used for internal repression.

Human Rights Watch releases a report after an investigation into the role of the central government and local authorities during the June and October 2012 violence in Arakan/Rakhine State, finding that “the criminal acts committed against the Rohingya and Kaman Muslim communities in Arakan State beginning in June 2012 amount to crimes against humanity carried out as part of a campaign of ethnic cleansing.

The Rakhine State Conflicts Investigation Commission releases its report on the June and October 2012 sectarian violence, calling upon the government to increase humanitarian support to displacement camps and ensure that the human rights of all groups are protected.

May 2013

President Thein Sein visits Washington. President Obama praises Myanmar’s political and economic progress, but criticises violence against Rohingya Muslims. Six Muslims are jailed over the Meiktila clashes in March. No Buddhists are convicted.

Obama extends current US sanctions against Burma/Myanmar for one year, while lifting the 1996 visa ban.

Government authorities in Maungdaw district, Arakan/Rakhine State impose a two-child limit on Rohingya families.

Anti-Muslim violence breaks out in Lashio, Shan state. Buddhist rioters destroy a mosque, orphanage and Muslim-owned businesses, displacing at least 1,400 Muslims.

UN special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Myanmar calls upon Myanmar’s central government to respond to the revival of the local order limiting Rohingya families to two children, saying the order “is a clear-cut human rights violation targeting a particular ethnic and religious group.”

June 2013

The EU adopts a resolution condemning the grave violations of human rights and the violence perpetrated against Rohingya Muslims and urging the government to ensure the protection of Rohingya and to authorise the establishment of a UN human rights office within the country to allow for adequate monitoring of the human rights situation.

The UN Human Rights Council expresses deep concern at the gross violations of human rights in Burma/Myanmar, in particular against Rohingya and other Muslims in Arakan/Rakhine State, urging the government to take immediate measure to end all acts of violence and to grant full citizenship rights to the Rohingya.

Buddhist monks meet at a Buddhist leaders’ conference in Yangon and propose an interfaith marriage law to impose restrictions on Buddhist women seeking to marry a Muslim man, including making it necessary to obtain permission from authorities and for the Muslim man to convert to Buddhism.

UN resident and humanitarian coordinator for Myanmar Ashok Nigam reports that 140,000 people remain displaced since the June and October 2012 violence in Arakan/Rakhine State which caused the death of 167 people and destroyed over 10,000 buildings.

Navi Pillay calls upon the government of Burma/Myanmar to tackle the continuing discrimination against ethnic and religious minorities.

Organisation for Islamic Coorperation secretary-general Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu urges the government of Burma/Myanmar to assume its responsibility to eradicate all incitement and discrimination against Muslims, including the law limiting Rohingya families to two children.

President Thein Sein announces the disbandment of the border security force, NaSaKa, which was long-accused of committing grave human rights violations against the Rohingya, including extrajudicial killings, arbitrary arrest and detention, and torture.

January 2014

New waves of state-sponsored violence perpetrated against the Rohingya in Maungdaw and Sittwe (Rakhine’s State capital).

Government withdraws staff and medicine from the only state-run hospital for the Rohingya Thae Chaung refugee camp near Sittwe.

February 2014

President Thein Sein announced his support for a Bill to restrict interfaith marriage between Muslim men and Buddhist women.

Government expels the medical aid NGO Médecins Sans Frontières, effectively removing all available emergency and health care services in northern Rakhine State.

Thailand announces it has deported around 1,300 Rohingya refugees since November 2013 back to Burma/Myanmar.

UN special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar concludes his final visit to the country, raising concerns about the “campaigns to incite hatred against the Rohingya community,” the ongoing segregation of Muslim communities and impunity for perpetrators of anti-Muslims abuses and killings. Protesters complain about his sympathy to “Bengalis”, refusing to acknowledge Rohingya identity.

MSF releases statement about the fate of tens of thousands of patients currently under its care after the government of Burma/Myanmar orders MSF to cease all activities in the country.

March 2014

Rakhine nationalists attack foreign aid groups providing assistance to Rohingya communities.

Government Investigation Commission releases its final report on the events in Du Chee Yar Tan village, finding “no evidence” of deaths and dismissing all allegations that anti-Rohingya violence occurred.

UN special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar releases his final report, saying that there has been no “clear action at the State and Union level to address the widespread discrimination and human rights violations occurring” in Arakan/Rakhine State and that the pattern of “widespread and systematic human rights violations” committed against Rohingya, in particular since the June 2012 violence, may amount to crimes against humanity.

Buddhist groups begin two days of attacks on the offices and homes of international aid groups and UN agencies working in Sittwe, forcing over 120 international staff to temporarily flee the region.

The UN Human Rights Council unanimously adopts a resolution on “the human rights situation in Myanmar,” extending the mandate of the special rapporteur for one year, reiterating serious concern about the situation of the Rohingya and other minorities, and requests and independent investigation into all reported incidents of violence and abuses.

The ASEAN Parliamentarians for Human Rights (APHR) calls uponMyanmar’s legislators to vote down a proposed law that would place restrictions on interfaith marriage, calling the draft law “discriminatory” and “in direct conflict with international treaties on fundamental rights to liberty and religious beliefs.”

Myanmar begins conducting its first census since 1983 after announcing it will not recognise “Rohingya” as an ethnic group.

April 2014

Muslims prohibited from registering as ‘Rohingya’ in the country’s April 2014 census, the first to be held in three decades.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reports that humanitarian operations in Arakan/Rakhine State have been “severely affected” by the disruption of assistance following the Sittwe attacks.

UNFPA (now UN Population Fund) says the country’s census is nearly complete, with an estimated 90% of the population counted. Those excluded were the Rohingya in Arakan/Rakhine State and people in conflict areas controlled by the Kachin Independence Organization in Kachin state.

At least 22 people are killed in fighting between government troops and ethnic Kachin rebels in the north

May 2014

US extends some sanctions for another year, saying that despite the recent reforms, rights abuses and army influence on politics and the economy persist.

Queen Mary College of London research group writes to UK Prime Minister David Cameron: “State practice surrounding escalating violence and discrimination against the Rohingya reflects that observed in Rwanda, Germany and Bosnia in the periods preceding mass killing.”

June 2014

UNHCR says it is receiving increasing reports of abuse and exploitation of Rohingya and other Muslims who flee Myanmar by boat to escape persecution and violence in Arakan State, estimating that over 86,000 people have fled on boats since June 2012, including 55,000 during 2013 and 15,000 between January and April 2014.

UN deputy humanitarian affairs coordinator Kyung-wha Kang says that the current capacity of the humanitarian community in Arakan is “still less than 60 percent of previous levels,” since the March attacks on aid workers.

Three UN special rapporteurs on freedom of religion, minority issues, and the human rights situation in Myanmar call upon the government of Burma/Myanmar to discard a draft bill on “Religious Conversion,” warning that the bill may lead to discrimination against religious and ethnic minorities and “signals the risk of Myanmar going off-track on its path to being a responsible member of the international community that respects and protects human rights.”

APHR reportS that many Rohingya have died of preventable causes since the government banned MSF.

July 2014

In Mandalay, Muslim-owned shops, homes and a mosque were attacked, leaving two dead.

August 2014

UNHCR reports that some 87,000 people, mostly Rohingya, fled from Arakan/Rakhine State by sea from the Bay of Bengal since the June 2012 outbreak of violence, during which at least 200 people died.

October 2014

UN special rapporteur on Myanmar addresses the UN General Assembly, warning against signs of backtracking on Burma/Myanmar’s reform process, including the “profoundly disturbing” situation in Arakan/Rakhine State, where “restrictions on freedom of movement severely affect basic rights such as access to health services, livelihoods, water, food and sanitation,” and “the long history of discrimination against the community that identifies themselves as Rohingya further compounds human rights violations.”

Parliamentary elections set for October-November 2015. Government announces release of 3,000 prisoners. Myanmar watchers say they include ex-military intelligence officers imprisoned along with former Prime Minister Khin Nyunt, who was freed in 2012.

November 2014

US President Obama tells press during East Asia Summit in Nay Pyi Taw that the US “would like to see a new plan that will allow the Rohingya to become citizens through a normal process without having to do that type of self-identification.”

UN General Assembly’s Third Committee adopts a resolution expressing serious concern about the situation of the Rohingya and calling upon the government of Burma/Myanmar to allow freedom of movement, grant equal access to full citizenship, and allow self-identification for the Rohingya.

January 2015

Rakhine National Party spokesperson declares in interview, “When the international community give them [Rohingya] a lot of food and a lot of donations, they will grow fat and become stronger, and they will become more violent.”

February 2015

Flare up in fighting with Kokang separatists in Shan State near the border with China leaves nearly 50 soldiers dead. Government puts Kokang region under temporary martial law.

Government withdraws temporary voting rights from Muslim Rohingya ahead of proposed constitutional referendum, following street protests by Buddhists.

March 2015

UN special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar releases a statement following her visit, reporting on the “severe curtailment of the rights” of Muslim IDPs in detention, with “limited access to essential services.” She reiterates that the government should allow “equal access to full citizenship for the Rohingya minority.”

Myanmar invalidates the identification cards (“white cards”) held by many Rohingya, forcing them to apply for citizenship as “Bengalis,” suggesting their illegal migration from Bangladesh.

A draft ceasefire agreement is signed between the government and 16 rebel groups.

May 2015

Queen Mary University of London-based research group reports that 100,000 Muslims, formerly living in mixed communities, forced into squalid camps in an overcrowded and isolated detention complex on the outskirts of Sittwe. A further 4,250 Rohingya live a precarious existence in downtown Sittwe’s militarised ghetto, Aung Mingalar.

Hundreds of Muslim Rohingyas migrants leave by sea in flimsy boats, along with migrants from Bangladesh. UN criticizes failure of south-east Asian states to rescue them.

The UN high commissioner for refugees, International Organization for Migration and the UN special representative of the secretary general for international migration and development release a statement urging the leaders of Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand to protect migrants and refugees stranded on vessels in the Bay of Bengal and the Andaman Sea, to facilitate safe disembarkation and to give priority to saving lives, protecting rights and respecting human dignity.

Five UN special rapporteurs release a statement expressing alarm at the enactment of the Population Control Healthcare Bill, the first of four so-called “Protection of Race and Religion” bills, saying the bills “particularly discriminate against ethnic and religious minorities and have the potential to fuel existing tensions in the country.”

Archbishop Desmond Tutu warns of a “slow genocide being committed against the Rohingya people.”

Oslo Conference to End Myanmar’s Persecution of Rohingya held.

July 2015

UN Human Rights Council adopts a resolution urging the government of Burma/Myanmar to grant the Rohingya citizenship and address the spread of discrimination and prejudice against Muslims.

October 2015

UN special rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar releases a report to the UN General Assembly, finding “no major improvement in the human rights concerns previously highlighted, in particular the long-standing and institutionalized discrimination against the Rohingya community.”

November 2015

Burma/Myanmar holds its first general elections since 1990. The opposition NLD – led by Aung San Suu Kyi – wins enough seats in parliamentary elections to form a government.

February 2016

The UNHCR reports that some 2,000 people, mostly Rohingya Muslims, died trying to cross the Bay of Bengal since 2012.

March 2016

Htin Kyaw sworn in as president, ushering in a “new era” as Suu Kyi’s democracy movement takes power after 50 years of military domination.

October 2016

Police claim three border-guard posts were attacked by hundreds of Islamic militants, killing nine policemen. Police initially claimed the attackers had links to a group called the Rohingya Solidarity Organization, a militant group believed to have been defunct for decades. The area is declared a counterterrorism “operation zone.” Later, the government claimed the assailants were members of a jihadist group, Aqa Mul Mujahidin, led by a man who was trained by the Taliban in Pakistan. A few days later, while on a trip to India, Suu Kyi told the Hindustan Times, “That is just information from just one source, we can’t take it for granted that it’s absolutely correct.”

Troops deployed to the areas surrounding Maungdaw, Buthidaung and Rathedaung towns in northern Arakan state. Within days of the lockdown, more than 800 Arakanese Buddhists arrived in the state capital Sittwe. More than 1,200 Muslims fled their villages and sought shelter in Buthidaung town. State media reports that Buddhists were being evacuated by helicopter citing safety concerns. New York Times reports that a dozen people may have been extrajudicially killed since the initial attacks.

Fiona MacGregor, a Scottish investigative journalist for the Myanmar Times, reports that rights groups had documented dozens of sexual-assault cases committed by Burmese security forces against Rohingya women in the operation zone. MacGregor is then fired for “damaging the good name of the paper.” Her editor, Douglas Long, is fired two weeks later for “undermining the mission of the paper” shortly after he spoke about the incident with a representative of the Committee to Protect Journalists.

November 2015

Arakan state police chief Colonel Sein Lwin says that local police would begin arming and training a civilian security force of non-Muslim residents. International Commission of Jurists has referred to it as “a recipe for disaster.” Reuters reports that the plan is already under way in the state capital Sittwe.

Burmese army opens fire with helicopters near villages in Maungdaw. The two days of ensuing violence displaced an estimated 15,000 people. Some observers have compared it to the “four cuts” strategy used throughout the decades to isolate the country’s myriad armed ethnic insurgent groups.

Burma’s state media introduced the True News Information Team of Defense Services, which singled out local and regional media outlets for publishing “fabrications” about casualties and damaged property. At least one local Muslim journalist has since been subjected to extreme online harassment, including death threats.

December 2015

US President Obama lifts sanctions against Myanmar, saying that the country had made strides in improving human rights. The move comes amid a crackdown on Rohingya and is criticised by some as premature.

August 2017

Rohingya insurgents attack 30 police stations, triggering a massive military response. Thousands of Rohingya flee from Rakhine state.

September 2017

Bangladesh initially deploys Border Guard Bangladesh (BGB) with guns to turn refugees back. Hundreds die as they try to cross the Naf River, which runs along the border of Bangladesh and Myanmar.

As images of dead children and sunken boats in Naf circulate, Bangladesh is set alight with protests demanding the refugees be allowed in. The government reverses stance and starts allowing Rohingya in.

As the crisis unravels at high speed, international community struggles to respond. The United Nations convenes emergency sessions, but China makes clear it will veto any resolution.

Suu Kyi dismisses reports of atrocities: “That kind of fake information … was simply the tip of a huge iceberg of misinformation calculated to create a lot of problems between different communities and with the aim of promoting the interest of the terrorists.

UN report indicates that 125,000 Rohingya have fled the country to Bangladesh on foot. A second UN reports that nearly 30,000 of the refugee Rohingya are trapped in the mountains of Rakhine State, not having any access to food or water.

UN states up to 300,000 Rohingya could flee violence in northwestern Myanmar to Bangladesh, warning of a funding shortfall for emergency food supplies for the refugees. Internal private estimates say final number will be 500,000.

Rohingya who made it to Bangladesh are reporting rapes, massacres and mass burning of men, women and children. Satellite images suggest the Rohingya villages have been burned to the ground.

Police stop left political party Gana Sanghati Andolan’s attempt to seize the UN’s office in Dhaka.

In the Chittagong Hill Tracts, Bangladesh’s indigenous Jumma community, themselves waging a three-decade long struggle for autonomy, fear reprisal attacks due to their Buddhist faith. The parallels with the 2012 Ramu attacks in Bangladesh worry Jumma activists.

UN rights chief accuses Myanmar of “textbook” ethnic cleansing of Rohingya Muslims.

https://thewire.in/179759/rohingya-myanmar-timeline/
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
9,148
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Ok it is fair enough. The sentence I wrote that you quoted could be seen that way but I didn't mean it.

It was to response as I said how people from some certain countries use ' rohinga' to become refugee in those sorrounding countries. Then lots of them came in and never ended. It happened to Burma.

So when people were like omg why not the countries around didn't say anything about the myanmar situation, well, i thought it was pretty clear as they have their own problems dealing with them.

Some of them even wanted to make a state out of some countries, like in Rahkinese state or southern parts of thailand etc

Those people who got kicked out or stay in other countries as 'rohinga refugees' might not even from Burma or set a foot there at all.

How do you solve it? I myself don't like that my country name was used as like that we all become to be seen like some scambags of the earth.

That I take issue with. Regardless of how poor they are or how you worship human rights and practise it as a religion, in the end, every country and society has to have some rules and need to be enforced at some points. And more often that not it will upset some.
I struggle to see how you did mean it then. What exactly did you mean?

The fact that you think Myanmar is (rightly or wrongly) being portrayed in a specific way in the media (and by the UN and surrounding nations etc) does not mean you can use terminology like that. It is utterly dehumanising.

The problem is that you are posting a lot without actually saying too much. You seem to be suggesting that the Rohingya are an invented people, they harbour many terrorists, they are disliked by all surrounding countries, they have not actually been there for generations and are pretending to be from this ethnic group to ?gather great benefits from Burma?, are pretending to be from this ethnic group to gather great benefits as a refugee from the surrounding countries, they're burning down their own villages (and I assume slaughtering themselves). Chuck in a smattering of 'you don't understand because you're not from here' too.

I get that you're trying to provide some balance. I get that you're not happy with how Burma is being portrayed in the media. I get that things are almost never black and white, regardless of what people think. I get that you may well be arguing with your family and friends from a different viewpoint. But some of the stuff that you've said has been pretty horrible tbh.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
I struggle to see how you did mean it then. What exactly did you mean?

The fact that you think Myanmar is (rightly or wrongly) being portrayed in a specific way in the media (and by the UN and surrounding nations etc) does not mean you can use terminology like that. It is utterly dehumanising.

The problem is that you are posting a lot without actually saying too much. You seem to be suggesting that the Rohingya are an invented people, they harbour many terrorists, they are disliked by all surrounding countries, they have not actually been there for generations and are pretending to be from this ethnic group to ?gather great benefits from Burma?, are pretending to be from this ethnic group to gather great benefits as a refugee from the surrounding countries, they're burning down their own villages (and I assume slaughtering themselves). Chuck in a smattering of 'you don't understand because you're not from here' too.

I get that you're trying to provide some balance. I get that you're not happy with how Burma is being portrayed in the media. I get that things are almost never black and white, regardless of what people think. I get that you may well be arguing with your family and friends from a different viewpoint. But some of the stuff that you've said has been pretty horrible tbh.
It is true that what happened was horrible. People who involved could have and should have done a lot better. I apologize for some of my harsh words and making myself look like I am ok with what they are suffering right now. I do have a lot of sympathy for all the innocent people there. And, I am angry this happened again and make everyone there going thru this again.

It is also true that I am struggling to choose the right choice of words at times to say that this situation is much more complicated than people from outside think and assigning blames haven't worked. And there are many who are trying to take advantage of this situations.

I am also struggling myself that I know that I don't agree with what some of the military have done but felt the need to point out the sufferings of the other side which heightened these tensions to break out huge messes at times. I have a lot of hatred for those who started this whole thing again and again knowing whenever they do it, big chaos will come and they are waiting for it.

I also know that this situation is not going to get any better. And I fear for all the people living there because it will happen again and again. The region is extreme poor and so far the so called international responses have been almost useless and haven't sorted anything.

The country government should have solve it but there may be some possible solutions and they will be long terms. But, being a very poor country with some of the most complicated system of a 'democratic' government, it can't do anything without proper encouraging helps from outside.

Sanctioning or blocking or whatever kind of things like that will never work and never worked for almost 30 years before. Only general people in the country suffered and the general living standards and everything else just dropped to the bottom and issues like these bore out of it in general.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mass-grave-28-hindus-found-myanmar-army-144720035.html

Whether people want to call it credible or not.

These kind of things did and do happen in the areas a lot and all the locals there know it. Something at times people don't care to make a headline including from the government.

Most media just mentioned how the terrorist groups attacked government troops which is totally wrong as they made it look like they are only going for government.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
http://www.atimes.com/article/truth-behind-myanmars-rohingya-insurgency

Articles like this would explain better and a bit more in details of what I have been trying to explain with the agenda of some of those terrorist groups and how the security troops had to deal with.


Key part,

"If the group’s goal was to “protect the Rohingyas”, as ARSA has claimed, its attacks backfired horribly. But the militants must have calculated the wider benefits that could be derived from the blowback. The international publicity surrounding the Rohingya’s plight has been unprecedented, promising new and potentially lucrative support from the Arab and Muslim worlds and more angry young men to recruit.

But the victims of this cynical game are the hundreds of thousands of Rohingya and others who have been forced from their destroyed homes and now languish in squalid camps in Bangladesh or the inhospitable no man’s land along the two countries’ increasingly hellish border."


Certainly, claims made by some locals and military sources that many of those villages were burnt down already or on fire when the security forces arrived might not have been too far away from the truth.
 
Last edited:

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
http://www.atimes.com/article/truth-behind-myanmars-rohingya-insurgency

Articles like this would explain better and a bit more in details of what I have been trying to explain with the agenda of some of those terrorist groups and how the security troops had to deal with.


Key part,

"If the group’s goal was to “protect the Rohingyas”, as ARSA has claimed, its attacks backfired horribly. But the militants must have calculated the wider benefits that could be derived from the blowback. The international publicity surrounding the Rohingya’s plight has been unprecedented, promising new and potentially lucrative support from the Arab and Muslim worlds and more angry young men to recruit.

But the victims of this cynical game are the hundreds of thousands of Rohingya and others who have been forced from their destroyed homes and now languish in squalid camps in Bangladesh or the inhospitable no man’s land along the two countries’ increasingly hellish border."

torture
Certainly, claims made by some locals and military sources that many of those villages were burnt down already or on fire when the security forces arrived might not have been too far away from the truth.
Was not going to respond to any more of your posts, but had to after reading this. Your fecking army is sending in the militias ahead of them to murder, torture and drive these people out. This way they can claim that it was not them. If they were honest, why would not not let the press into those areas to see and report for themselves?
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
Was not going to respond to any more of your posts, but had to after reading this. Your fecking army is sending in the militias ahead of them to murder, torture and drive these people out. This way they can claim that it was not them. If they were honest, why would not not let the press into those areas to see and report for themselves?
No one other than heavy armed forces go into those area as it is 97% rohinga living there. Even they got ambushed by hundreds of people coming out of bushes when they entered villages and some of them died. Militias who can simply go in there, torture people and torch the village do NOT exist there.

They don't let press go freely in the area for security reasons. People may laugh but it is true. Everything was and still is chaotic and a mess over there. They don't want to risk a member of press get killed by some nutter from either side and will get more bad press.

But there is another reason. They have a hard time controlling the area atm. Some thugs loot and burn stuff down in the villages AFTER roghinga left. It is a bad press too.

Again, there are many rohinga villages in those and other areas who were untouched and protected. Some from those villages told reporters from outside that they wanted to leave for Bangladesh too (even though no one was exactly torching or torturing them there). But, their village leaders told the government that they are not leaving so they stay. Most of the leaders would get their throat slit and head beheaded for doing it in some other more extreme area villages for 'being government men'.

If you let them go, there will be reports saying 452435345435 of refugess are fleeting and this is how the country get bad press more than they should.

If you don't, there will still be reports later that they are being in some kind of internal prison camps. The government do have a serious problem with their PR practice.
 
Last edited:

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
More about the region conflict..

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/rohingyas-burma/540513/

More bodies found up to 45...

http://abcnews.go.com/International...nsurgents-killed-28-hindu-women-boys-50069537

There are more details about some bodies pics or some interviews with people from those hindu villages on some FB and burmese newspapers. I will spare the details.

Some people accused the government of faking it. I do hope it is not because it will be a very fecked up thing to do. But by looking at pics, listening to them etc, it does feel real. So...
 
Last edited:

fishfingers15

Contributes to username and tagline changes
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
27,115
Location
YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
More about the region conflict..

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/rohingyas-burma/540513/

More bodies found up to 45...

http://abcnews.go.com/International...nsurgents-killed-28-hindu-women-boys-50069537

There are more details about some bodies pics or some interviews with people from those hindu villages on some FB and burmese newspapers. I will spare the details.

Some people accused the government of faking it. I do hope it is not because it will be a very fecked up thing to do. But by looking at pics, listening to them etc, it does feel real. So...
So? I'm genuinely curious because I'm interested in what comes after those dots
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
So? I'm genuinely curious because I'm interested in what comes after those dots
Should have been so... it does feel real. Was gonna use it as a pause as I didn't want to make it sound like I am 100% sure of it as I told people not to believe everything they see.

Just didn't want to be a hypocrite of it.
 

fishfingers15

Contributes to username and tagline changes
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
27,115
Location
YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
Should have been so... it does feel real. Was gonna use it as a pause as I didn't want to make it sound like I am 100% sure of it as I told people not to believe everything they see.

Just didn't want to be a hypocrite of it.
No offence to you, but that line of reasoning is like the ones used by the radical Hindus in India about a temple that existed before 400 odd years to bring down a heritage site.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
No offence to you, but that line of reasoning is like the ones used by the radical Hindus in India about a temple that existed before 400 odd years to bring down a heritage site.
I am sorry. I didn't get it.

What line of reasoning?
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,530
Hard subject to grasp, it would seem. Contradictory information about what seems to be a genuinely complex matter for many reasons.

From my anything-but-expert viewpoint the government's refusal to properly acknowledge this minority as nationals seems harsh and not easy to understand. On the other hand, dealing with individual ethnic groups who have lived in a certain region since way before today's political borders were agreed upon – is tricky. Not least in poor parts of the world.

None of that justifies military action against civilians, though. The latter can't possibly be justified even if there are terrorists involved either: Muslim terrorists instigating trouble and using civilians for their own cynical ends does not a) justify the atrocities that have been reported and b) seem like a sufficient explanation for what is going on over there.
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
Hard subject to grasp, it would seem. Contradictory information about what seems to be a genuinely complex matter for many reasons.

From my anything-but-expert viewpoint the government's refusal to properly acknowledge this minority as nationals seems harsh and not easy to understand. On the other hand, dealing with individual ethnic groups who have lived in a certain region since way before today's political borders were agreed upon – is tricky. Not least in poor parts of the world.

None of that justifies military action against civilians, though. The latter can't possibly be justified even if there are terrorists involved either: Muslim terrorists instigating trouble and using civilians for their own cynical ends does not a) justify the atrocities that have been reported and b) seem like a sufficient explanation for what is going on over there.
These are not like the ISIS feckers in the Middle East. Some of these people are trying to fight back because of decades of abuse and mistreatment of their people. Sometimes you have no option but to fight back when you are faced with so much oppression for decades. It's easy to call them terrorist from afar, but when you live the conditions like this for decades, sometimes you have no other options.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,530
These are not like the ISIS feckers in the Middle East. Some of these people are trying to fight back because of decades of abuse and mistreatment of their people. Sometimes you have no option but to fight back when you are faced with so much oppression for decades. It's easy to call them terrorist from afar, but when you live the conditions like this for decades, sometimes you have no other options.
I think you misunderstood, mate - and looking at the sentence I can see why, it was overly long and poorly worded.

However, what it actually says is that I do not think terrorists recruiting civilians is a sufficient explanation - or justification.

As for the terrorists themselves, I'm only referring to what the article above suggests, i.e. that a small group of terrorists with a less transparent agenda (as opposed to freedom fighters) are active in the region and play a part in all of this.

But again - regardless of whether this is the case or not, it does NOT explain or justify the reported atrocities.

Hope that clarifies what I meant.
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
I think you misunderstood, mate - and looking at the sentence I can see why, it was overly long and poorly worded.

However, what it actually says is that I do not think terrorists recruiting civilians is a sufficient explanation - or justification.

As for the terrorists themselves, I'm only referring to what the article above suggests, i.e. that a small group of terrorists with a less transparent agenda (as opposed to freedom fighters) are active in the region and play a part in all of this.

But again - regardless of whether this is the case or not, it does NOT explain or justify the reported atrocities.

Hope that clarifies what I meant.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. It's too easy for people to label someone a terrorist when those people might be fighting for their very survival.
 

RedTiger

Half mast
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
23,037
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
AP: Rohingya methodically raped by Myanmar’s armed forces

The Myanmar armed forces did not respond to multiple requests from the AP for comment, but an internal military investigation last month concluded that none of the assaults ever took place. And when journalists asked about rape allegations during a government-organized trip to Rakhine in September, Rakhine’s minister for border affairs, Phone Tint, replied: “These women were claiming they were raped, but look at their appearances — do you think they are that attractive to be raped?


https://apnews.com/5e4a1351468f4755a6f861e39ec782c9
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
That guy is pretty stupid. In fact the PR of the whole military leadership has been very aweful throughout this whole thing and didn't help them a bit.
So your answer to the mass killings and rapes are for the whole military leadership to have good PR?

I do believe in karma and have absolutely no hesitancy in saying this, but hopefully we will see the same suffering by the perpetrators and their apologist.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,796
So your answer to the mass killings and rapes are for the whole military leadership to have good PR?

I do believe in karma and have absolutely no hesitancy in saying this, but hopefully we will see the same suffering by the perpetrators and their apologist.
I am saying the leadership of military is making things worse by spouting shit.

I am amused you talked about karma. If you are in shit now, it is because you did something shit before. or something.

If so, maybe some people should stop and think before attacking security outposts or killing people who have different beliefs.

Of course it can be said to both sides at times.
 
Last edited:

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,992
I am saying the leadership of military is making things worse by spouting shit.

I am amused you talked about karma. If you are in shit now, it is because you did something shit before. or something.

If so, maybe some people should stop and think before attacking security outposts or killing people who have different beliefs.

Of course it can be said to both sides at times.
Remember this post when your time comes.