Ex-minister Bob Ainsworth: Make drugs Legally Available

[Hectic]

Bob Ainsworth and David Raynes of the National Drug Prevention Alliance discuss the link between drugs and crime
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An ex-minister who had responsibility for drugs policy has called for all drugs to be legally available.

Bob Ainsworth, a Home Office minister under Tony Blair, said successive governments' approaches had failed, leaving criminal gangs in control.

The Coventry North East MP wants to see a system of strict legal regulation, with different drugs either prescribed by doctors or sold under licence.

Ministers have insisted they remain opposed to legalisation.

Crime Prevention Minister James Brokenshire said it was "not the answer" to drugs which ruin lives.

"Decriminalisation is a simplistic solution that fails to recognise the complexity of the problem and ignores the serious harm drug taking poses to the individual.

"Legalisation fails to address the reasons people misuse drugs in the first place or the misery, cost and lost opportunities that dependence causes individuals, their families and the wider community."
Poor 'hardest hit'

Mr Ainsworth is the most senior politician so far to publicly call for all drugs, including heroin and cocaine, to be in any way legalised.

He said he realised when Home Office minister in charge of drugs policy that the so-called war on drugs could not be won.
Heroin and syringe All three main parties at Westminster remain opposed to the legalisation of drugs

The Labour backbencher said: "Leaving the drugs market in the hands of criminals causes huge and unnecessary harms to individuals, communities and entire countries, with the poor the hardest hit."

Mr Ainsworth said billions of pounds was being spent "without preventing the wide availability of drugs".

"It is time to replace our failed war on drugs with a strict system of legal regulation, to make the world a safer, healthier place, especially for our children," he said.

Mr Ainsworth insisted he was "not a libertarian" and that people should not be encouraged to use substances.

But he said: "We must take the trade away from organised criminals and hand it to the control of doctors and pharmacists."

However, when pressed, he was uncertain as to how any policy might work.

Asked where people might buy cocaine on a Saturday night, he replied: "Maybe at a chemist".
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“Start Quote

We've got so used to 40 years of prohibition”

End Quote Tom Lloyd Former chief constable of Cambridgeshire Police

BBC Home Editor Mark Easton said under such a system heroin and cocaine might only be available on prescription from registered doctors, while cannabis might be sold in a similar way to tobacco.

"Those who supplied or sold drugs without the requisite licence would still be operating illegally, in the same way as those who sell tobacco, alcohol or prescription drugs without a licence or proper authority would be currently," he said.
'Irresponsible'

However, all three main parties at Westminster remain opposed to legalisation, with a Labour spokesman saying Mr Ainsworth's were "not the views of Ed Miliband, the Labour Party or the public". One party source described Mr Ainsworth's comments as "irresponsible".

When asked why he did not make the call while in government, Mr Ainsworth said: "I did what I could within the confines of collective responsibility."

He said David Cameron had called for examination of alternatives to prohibition when a member of the Home Affairs Select Committee but dropped the suggestion on becoming Conservative leader.

Fear of a media backlash prevented politicians from arguing for a change in policy and a "grown-up debate" was needed, said Mr Ainsworth.

"As you can see from the reaction this morning, if I was now a shadow minister, Ed Miliband would be asking me to resign. If one of David Cameron's ministers - despite the fact [the prime minister] probably agrees with me - agreed publicly with me, he would have to resign."

Last week, Home Secretary Theresa May said the government's drugs strategy would remain focused on rehabilitation and reducing supply.
'Change needed'

However, former chief constable of Cambridgeshire Police, Tom Lloyd, said something had to change.
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“Start Quote

Just the fact that Bob Ainsworth is talking in this way will send strong signals to some children - a green light - to start experimenting ”

End Quote Debra Bell Anti-drugs campaigner

"We've got so used to 40 years of prohibition which, in my experience of over 30 years of policing, has led to massive cost, a failure to achieve the primary aims, which is the reduction of drug use, and a range of unintended harmful consequences," he said.

The former chief adviser to the government on drugs, Prof David Nutt, told the BBC that most MPs actually agree with Mr Ainsworth, but feel they cannot say so publicly because of "the pressure of politics".

Prof Nutt said that in other countries such as Holland, where cannabis is legal, there have been several benefits.

"It's reduced cannabis use and the harms of cannabis, and it has separated the heroin market from the cannabis market.

"In this country if you want to use cannabis you will inevitably get in contact with a dealer who will always be trying to push on you the harder drug."

However, anti-drugs campaigner Debra Bell, whose eldest son William began smoking cannabis at 14, believes that he would have progressed to taking class A substances had they been legally available.

"Just the fact that Bob Ainsworth is talking in this way will send strong signals to some children - a green light - to start experimenting and I really don't think that's the way forward in a civilised society," she argued.

BBC News - Ex-minister Bob Ainsworth: Make drugs legally available

Thoughts on the drugs debate? It's gathering more momentum these days, but I still can't see it happening, although I would love to see green legalized in my life time. Something doesn't sit right with the thought of crack heads waiting for their fix in a chemist though.

 

[Raoul]

The idea generally scares the hell out of people. Won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

[Hectic]

Do you think it should happen though?

 

[Raoul]

I've been against it in the past. It briefs well but would be complicated to implement. Recreational drug use seems to be getting less popular these days compared to say the 60s or 80s.

 

[Frosty]

I agree, but only if they are made available for sale in Superdrug.

 

[Hectic]

And as for marijuana by itself? Not on the same level as any of the other drugs mentioned, could tax it to the heavens and won't change all that much really.

I can see some logic in that, but not really in making heroin readily available.

 

[Silva]

As far a heroin goes I'd rather see a medical approach, whereby heroin (or a substance to fulfil the fix) is prescribed to people as part of their rehab.

Marijuana should be legalised - they could tax £150 an ounce and people would still buy it.

 

[Dave89]

‘Make all drugs legal’ says former minister who could have made all drugs legal

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Yes, legalize nearly everything. This not only helps users get their fix but helps society in general as it opens reasearch, which currently is constrained by these substances being heavily controlled.

Resources wasted on tackling drug trafficking and drug related crime could be used to help people and families and the tax revenue would be a bonus, too.

The impact on health care systems would be minimal as most people don't want to go out and do heroin or other hard drugs. It also makes it easier to educate people on safe use as currently the message is "don't do it" yet thousands do.

Finally, it would remove a major source of income from organized crime. I really think it would be a blow from which it would never recover.

 

[Eriku]

Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

I agree with Dwayne... Make it legal and you won't find toxic blends (at least no-where the amounts you see today), stigma would be relieved allowing people to seek help without that hanging over them, minors wouldn't have as easy a source as they do now, etc...

Looking at the history behind the criminalisation of drugs and you find the basis for our current laws stem from ignorant, despicable propaganda which 99,9% of today's politicians would be embarassed to be associated with.

And to this day we see easily that the stated goals aren't really being pursued... David Nutt publishes his results for the drugs advisory board and gets fired because extacy and whatnot comes out far more favourably than the alcohol... Now we're hearing that scientists may not get to have any input with regards to the forming of policy on drugs...

If that goes through I might cut things short and overdose, we're all fecked if a western country convinces itself that this is sound politics... I can stand the fecking fearful anti-drugs stance, but if scientists are tossed out of this.......

 

[TheReligion]

Hmm not so sure about this.

Sounds good at first glance but would still being problems with it. How many young people would decide to start using due to the fact it would become legal? Probably alot.

Drugs like Heroin are horrible and bring poverty with them.

 

[Silva]

Being illegal didn't exactly stop me - if anything, it made it even more exciting.

 

[TheReligion]

Being illegal didn't exactly stop me - if anything, it made it even more exciting.

This is true, but alot more people would be attracted to drugs if they knew there was no legal issue attached to it.

An interesting debate.

 

[Alex]

As far a heroin goes I'd rather see a medical approach, whereby heroin (or a substance to fulfil the fix) is prescribed to people as part of their rehab.

Marijuana should be legalised - they could tax £150 an ounce and people would still buy it.

Have you heard of methadone or suboxone.

I can tell u people would just avoid places that sell it with a government if it was that steep.

 

[Ubik]

This is true, but alot more people would be attracted to drugs if they knew there was no legal issue attached to it.

An interesting debate.

Thing is, do you not do heroin because it's illegal? I'd guess the answer to that is no - you don't do it because it's a fecking horrific substance that does untold damage to your mind, body and bank balance.

Weed is another matter, and I don't think is at the forefront of what Ainsworth is talking about. That said, does it do as much damage to your health as alcohol and tabacco? I haven't a clue, but it seems odd to allow those two but criminalise the other. Bill Hicks has some compelling arguments too

Also, he seems to be saying this because he thinks there are so many people on drugs, so many that can easily be swayed into taking it with no fear of the law, and that it's so easy to bring it into the country and sell it, that legalisation would do little to increase its taking. People clearly have access to heroin, cocaine and whatnot, it seems logical to argue that it's better they acquire it from a legitimate source, rather than in a shadowy back alley from a dodgy twat that could have done anything to it, and will charge a mint (leading to addicts getting involved in crime to fund it, etc).

Then again, there's been debate over "legal highs" recently too (a few have now been made illegal I believe), how some people were taking advantage of those at parties and such, and ODing, and dying, on them in the process. So that contradicts my earlier point about not wanting to take something harmful. Education as a response to that I suppose? But it's a fine line.

 

[Silva]

This is true, but alot more people would be attracted to drugs if they knew there was no legal issue attached to it.

An interesting debate.

Not really, every man and his dog knows that the only way you'll ever get in trouble is if you're caught with heroin/cocaine type dugs dealing. All that's ever done in cases of people smoking weed or only having a little is that it's confiscated and they get a slap on the wrist. That's hardly a legal issue - you get the same if you take your drink outside when you're clubbing.

Have you heard of methadone or suboxone.

Yes, but not really enough to know anything substantial around them - I just know their used as part of the rehab.

I can tell u people would just avoid places that sell it with a government if it was that steep.

If prices stay around the same price as dealers sell them now, people will be more than happy to buy it legally. Mass production is quite cheap so even if it's taxed to death companies will still be able to make a profit.

 

[TheReligion]

Not really, every man and his dog knows that the only way you'll ever get in trouble is if you're caught with heroin/cocaine type dugs dealing. All that's ever done in cases of people smoking weed or only having a little is that it's confiscated and they get a slap on the wrist. That's hardly a legal issue - you get the same if you take your drink outside when you're clubbing.


Yes, but not really enough to know anything substantial around them - I just know their used as part of the rehab.


If prices stay around the same price as dealers sell them now, people will be more than happy to buy it legally. Mass production is quite cheap so even if it's taxed to death companies will still be able to make a profit.

I don't know where you have heard that from but Cannabis is the only drug you get a chance with so to speak.

You can receive a Street Warning, which is not a criminal conviction, first of all, but from then on, if you are caught again you get locked up and dealt with accordingly.

There are no chances with any other drug, you simply get arrested straight up.

 

[Silva]

I don't know where you have heard that from but Cannabis is the only drug you get a chance with so to speak.

You can receive a Street Warning, which is not a criminal conviction, first of all, but from then on, if you are caught again you get locked up and dealt with accordingly.

There are no chances with any other drug, you simply get arrested straight up.

That's what I meant I forgot the word 'and' in front of 'dealing'.

What are the actual chances of being caught by the same policeman twice? Not to mention, the copper has to remember you in the first place, if you don't give them any trouble you're unlikely to be recognised next time.

And let's face - most people do only ever use cannabis, so at the very least, separating the cannabis trade from the rest of it would be a huge step in the war against the drugs. The only way to separate it is to legalise it.

 

[TheReligion]

That's what I meant I forgot the word 'and' in front of 'dealing'.

What are the actual chances of being caught by the same policeman twice? Not to mention, the copper has to remember you in the first place, if you don't give them any trouble you're unlikely to be recognised next time.

And let's face - most people do only ever use cannabis, so at the very least, separating the cannabis trade from the rest of it would be a huge step in the war against the drugs. The only way to separate it is to legalise it.

The Street Caution goes on your Police record which is available on the Police National Computer.

It isn't a matter of recognising you. When simple checks are carried out via radio, as is with anyone stopped, it will instantly become apparent if you are elligable of one or if you have had your chance and need to be arrested.

No escape really.

 

[KanieKaned]

The Street Caution goes on your Police record which is available on the Police National Computer.

It isn't a matter of recognising you. When simple checks are carried out via radio, as is with anyone stopped, it will instantly become apparent if you are elligable of one or if you have had your chance and need to be arrested.

No escape really.

I dont think this is the case its not a criminal record it is a warning as far as im aware it passed amongst the borough for that station but not nationally. So you dont receive a police record for the caution, if your caught by the same borough again then it leads to an 80 quid o the spot fine i think it is, and any further will result in arrest and being dealt with accordingly

 

[Commadus]

Why do people turn to drugs?

 

[Hectic]

I don't know where you have heard that from but Cannabis is the only drug you get a chance with so to speak.

You can receive a Street Warning, which is not a criminal conviction, first of all, but from then on, if you are caught again you get locked up and dealt with accordingly.

There are no chances with any other drug, you simply get arrested straight up.

Are you talking about Cannibis there? Because that's not how police operate at all in my area.

 

[Eriku]

Why do people turn to drugs?

For a lot of reasons... A lot of people on here will tell you they did or do it because it's fun, sometimes even giving you insight and/or a fresh take on the world.

It's not always about weakness or escapism... And there are people who can use heroin recreationally without it fecking their life up.

Btw, animals like a buzz too... And I don't really care for the arbitrary line drawn between alcohol and "drugs". It's merely a legal distinction, and here in Norway if it's more than 120 proof alcohol or smth it is technically a narcotic substance.

 

[Hectic]

People who act like smoking weed is the end of the world, then go to the pub every other night, or just drink in general, gets right on my nerves.

That's it Eriku, it's just a legal distinction.

 

[TheReligion]

I dont think this is the case its not a criminal record it is a warning as far as im aware it passed amongst the borough for that station but not nationally. So you dont receive a police record for the caution, if your caught by the same borough again then it leads to an 80 quid o the spot fine i think it is, and any further will result in arrest and being dealt with accordingly

I am fairly sure that is the case, as a street warning is still recorded by the national crime bureau and attached to the individual who has received it.

 

[Commadus]

I have never smoked weed or tried any drugs - never saw the appeal.

De-criminalising drugs that are hallucinogenics? Wouldn't that be counter productive?

Does the threat of a criminal offence reduce actual consumption?

 

[peterstorey]

I thought it wasn't on PNC but on the force IS systems (the collator as was).

 

[peterstorey]

I have never smoked weed or tried any drugs - never saw the appeal.

De-criminalising drugs that are hallucinogenics? Wouldn't that be counter productive?

Does the threat of a criminal offence reduce actual consumption?

Why do you drink alcohol?

 

[TheReligion]

Are you talking about Cannibis there? Because that's not how police operate at all in my area.

Yeah, Cannabis.

They will do the same thing, although perhaps in a slightly different format

 

[TheReligion]

I thought it wasn't on PNC but on the force IS systems (the collator as was).

Yeah, it will be on the local system, you're right.

 

[Eriku]

I have never smoked weed or tried any drugs - never saw the appeal.

De-criminalising drugs that are hallucinogenics? Wouldn't that be counter productive?

Does the threat of a criminal offence reduce actual consumption?

Drugs is an arbitrary category... GHB is more like alcohol than heroin or pot...

And why would it be counter productive to decriminalise hallucinogens? Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the double-helix shape of DNA, was allegedly aided by LSD in his discovery. MDMA is being used by John Hopkins in experiments, and has been shown to help alcoholics and whatnot, for example, to come to realisations that help them get out of their vicious circle. They've also done experiments with psilocybin (the major active constituent of magic mushies) which have alleviated the sufferings of people with cluster headaches.

We all trip, essentially, when we dream, by the way... when you die your brain floods with the biochemical equivalent to DMT, which explains the curious near-death phenomena. So you might get to experience it before you pop your clogs

Oh, and Carl Sagan was a pothead... I'd search for his essay (using the pseudonym Mr. X) where he extols all sorts of virtues of cannabis.

The simplistic dismissal of drugs as havoc-wreaking shit, and all the while people drink and smoke without any qualms... and those things kill far more than all recreational drugs combined...

Also, previously I linked to the decriminalisation in Portugal... Portugal has seen a decrease since the decriminalisation... Amsterdam picked up a couple per cent more smokers, before it went back to the same old stat... The laws don't really help, in fact they feck things up, and there's plenty to back that.

One last addendum, the war on drugs is a sham... a feckload of the money that's supposed to combat drugs wind up in the guerillas and cartels directly involved in it in Colombia, and farmers aren't given the resources to grow other crops, even though they are begging for them.

OH... and when Pusher street in Christiania (the "free town" as it's called, which allowed soft-drugs to be sold in stands) in Copenhagen was closed, the gangs started taking initiative to get the upper hand in the market. All of a sudden certain areas in Copenhagen has a bumload of gun fights and whatnot, as the gangs competed over turf. Criminalising something that's as ubiquitous as drug use directly leads to this. Is that better than taxing it, running proper information campaigns instead of the fear-mongering which, when a teenager tries marijuana, causes him or her to wonder what other substances one can use without going mental... Since when have lies like these been productive?

 

[Hectic]

Yeah, Cannabis.

They will do the same thing, although perhaps in a slightly different format

It's not like that at all here. You certainly won't get 'locked up' if it's found again, unless you mean just arrested and released the next day.

Anyway, they expire after 6 months, meaning your record is clean (which I can attest to) having been cautioned, and then 7 months later nothing came up when they called in. Hasn't that changed to 12 months now though with it being a 'Class B'?

Or are you talking about dealing - which would make more sense? I'm only refering to cases where a person is caught with a minor amount for personal use.

 

[Sir A1ex]

Why do people turn to drugs?

It's a good question... the drugs should be put in front of them, to save them having to waste time turning.

 

[TheReligion]

It's not like that at all here. You certainly won't get 'locked up' if it's found again, unless you mean just arrested and released the next day.

Anyway, they expire after 6 months, meaning your record is clean (which I can attest to) having been cautioned, and then 7 months later nothing came up when they called in. Hasn't that changed to 12 months now though with it being a 'Class B'?

Or are you talking about dealing - which would make more sense? I'm only refering to cases where a person is caught with a minor amount for personal use.

Locked up is the term used for arrested.

As far as I know there is no time scale on it. Think ACPO state you can have two Cannabis Warnings, then a Penalty Notice (£80) and then court from there onwards.

If you are caught with Cannabis, no matter how little the amount, and their are aggravating factors, such as smoking it near children or in the presence of them, you will just be arrested without question.

Dealing is straight arrest. Can get upto 14 years for that.

 

[wr8_utd]

Newsthump is a fun site

 

[ruudwho?]

Isn't the key point with this, that the decriminilisation will not mean that you can simply buy Marijuana or Heroin over the counter in a pharmacy, but that these substances will be prescribed by registered GPs, and there will be strict controls over them.

As a pharmacy student, i know that there is already a lot of control over substances such as methadone (which is basically heroin) and it works fine. Drugs are prescribed by registered prescribers - either drug clinics, GPs etc. The prescrivbing habits are monitored and so you can't really cheat the system.

I wouldn't be too fussed either socially, or as a pharmacist if drugs were legalised, as far as I'm concerned if theyre treated with the controls that current CDs are treated with, it'll be fine i reckons.