As is Mata.
Given everything we've seen this season, Rooney was unlikely to perform better than Mata had up to that point. Which is exactly how it played out. So why bring him on?
Fellaini and Rooney on. Mata off.
- Thread starter Scholesy
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Given everything we've seen this season, Rooney was unlikely to perform better than Mata had up to that point. Which is exactly how it played out. So why bring him on?
Thing is how many goals does Fellaini actually score from headers? Said it last season but I don't think he's been a consistent threat from us in terms of actually getting on the end of things and I'd wager he gives away more fouls (in fairness I do think he gets harshly treated at times by refs) that he actually heads attempts at goal. Even with 10 men we were having no problem working the ball in to good areas, we didn't need his height, for me Carrick would have been a better option. Mata coming off was a poor decision for me, particularly when Rooney isn't exactly confident in front of goal right now.
Rooney is a goal scorer? Had one great chance to score and fecked it up. Gave the bal away cheaply. What a stupid sub both were. Zlatan should have gone along with Lingard.
I only saw the second half, but I was excited by the fluency of our football. It felt like watching the United of old. Then Fellaini and Rooney came on, the kings of backwards and sideways passing, and it all went down the toilet. I couldn't believe Mourinho took Mata off.
Should have taken off Lingard and Ibra instead of Lingard and Mata.
Was saying this the other day. I find it really odd that Mata gets subbed every game.
Yeah, exactly. I don't think we needed to change anything - of course you can't predict what will happen, but I'm fairly certain we'd have created more chances with Mata on the pitch. They obviously didn't have the energy to actually threaten us aside from the occasional counter, which Fellaini will do absolutely nothing to protect us against. I could see the logic in putting Carrick on to get a more solid midfield, but Fellaini had no role in that game for me (no chance he could bully their central defenders) and Mata was already doing well in the position Rooney took.
Carrick would not be the right choice to bring on. You either start him or don't play him at all, he's not gonna make an ounce of difference when you're chasing a game with ten minutes to go.
Rooney and Fellaini being terrible is as safe a prediction as it gets in football though. Still, Ibrahimovic and the statue should have won us that game with the chances they got.
Yes, of course he is.
He didn't have his finishing boots on today. Rooney has proven he can score goals, so maybe he could succeed where Mata couldn't. It was a reasonable change to make. More than reasonable... sensible.
He is easy to sub. I mean he'll never sulk, never moan and never display publicly his frustration like some big names can do. You don't substitute your best player when you need to score goals, that is just madness.
need for fresh legs.... Then Zlatan should have been the first man off
Thank God there are others who understand football
That's my only issue with Mourinho today. Bringing in Rooney, Fellaini and Memphis when chasing to score a goal is a shocking decision. Brain-fart from Mourinho. Hope he didn't mean it and it was just a misunderstanding from his messenger. He probably wrote something like "Don't let Rooney and Fellaini anywhere near the pitch" and the guy just misread it.
I thought these were strange subs considering but it didn't have too much of a negative impact and Rooney should have actually scored.
He did have his creating boots on today though. Those goals don't come out of thin air. Taking off our best player for someone in Rooney's form was in no way sensible, as Rooney's subsequent performance showed.
Like vampires, the two of them.
If we don't go down to 10 men, Mata doesn't come off. It's as simple as that. He was our best creative force on the pitch.
By leaving him on we risked Burnley countering against the run of play/ winning a random set piece and losing the game.
Correct call.
By leaving him on we risked Burnley countering against the run of play/ winning a random set piece and losing the game.
Correct call.
I think there was an element of preservation. We were down to ten men and the long ball assault was inevitable.
Correct call my arse. We just don't bring in Rooney. Take Lingard off, put the lump on and that's it. Mata should've stayed on the pitch.
It's not like Mata was squandering clear chances like Ibra, most his chances were on the half turn, tight angles etc that he fashioned for himself. Rooney's problems in front of goal has been a long standing issue so can't really understand taking of someone who just scored a derby winner and was our best player on the day for someone who is searching for form and has been struggling in front of goal with his last display doing nothing to suggest he's getting his shooting boots back.
I can understand the logic of the Fellaini sub although I think his attacking offering is overstated but Rooney for Mata for me was an odd choice. Rooney for Ibra maybe although Ibra was doing some good stuff outside of his finishing.
Top username.
if fellaini didnt come on, then pogba would be the lone midfielder. and for a few minutes there was a lot of pressure
Absolutely killed the game. Fellaini still made sense, but the other bloke. Yuck.
im a big fan of Mourinho but his subs are disgraceful and that didnt change today. When you play with 10 men against a lesser opponent you want as many players on the pitch that are great on the ball or at least that can offer you mobility so you can cover more ground. What we did today? Sub in 3 player that are poor on the ball and neither of them can run......insane.
You just know mata would have stuck that chance rooney had low and curled into the bottom corner
Fellaini was very useful for the way we wer eplaying in the dying minutes I thought.
Completely lost momentum for a 10 minute spell when the sub was made though.
If anything, Depay was a worse sub and did absolutely nothing.
Clattenberg is mostly to blame for this result, although the finishing can't be excused either.
Completely lost momentum for a 10 minute spell when the sub was made though.
If anything, Depay was a worse sub and did absolutely nothing.
Clattenberg is mostly to blame for this result, although the finishing can't be excused either.
Maybe that's exactly what Mourinho wanted?
How many times has Fellaini scored from headers in the past 3 seasons? Considering United have often tried to hoof it up to find Fellaini's head, those statistics must surely point to it being a pointless option. Carrick would have helped United out more.
Mata was United's best player. You don't take off your best player. Take off Rashford if you want to take off an attacker.
Mata was United's best player. You don't take off your best player. Take off Rashford if you want to take off an attacker.
Quite possible.Maybe that's exactly what Mourinho wanted?
The Fellaini sub made sense in that we needed someone in the middle. But Mata should never have come off. It should have been Fellaini for Lingard with Mata moving right.
Him not scoring is not the point. He can create a sense of panic and this can lead to goals. Like Liverpool away last season where he sucked in 4 players and rooney scored off the rebound unmarked. Its like Klopp putting on Caulker when he was chasing games. I doubt Caulker has scored particularly highly during his career.
I don't know, I always think its fair to give the manager or coaches a chance to explain why they did things. It's not as though any of us are football managers who spend day in day out analysing their players, seeing what they are perhaps useful for etc etc.
One thing that struck me from reading the match thread, is how well Mata seemed to take the Captaincy.....seemed as though it pushed him up a notch with the responsibility?
One thing that struck me from reading the match thread, is how well Mata seemed to take the Captaincy.....seemed as though it pushed him up a notch with the responsibility?
The substitution reeked of fear and panic from the manager.
Schneiderlin on for Lingard and move Mata to the RW was all we needed to do, there was zero need to bring Rooney on, there never is.
I dont mind getting Rooney on and even Fellaini as them turning to be ineffective is more of a hindsight thing. But Getting either of them on for Mata was bonkers. I mean Zlatan was getting most of those chances due to Mata and he seemed to be the only one capable of scoring. If you want to get those 2 on (although not ideal) get them on for maybe someone like Lingard and Zlatan. fellaini and Pog as CM. Rash and Mata on flanks with Mata drifting in like he does and effectively playing as a CAM, and Rooney as Striker or Rooney and Mata behind Rashford
Did you see that play where Rooney had the ball and was surrounded by Burnley players. Fellaini stood two yards from him like a training cone and then Rooney had to literally point him to move to make himself available for a pass. That is exactly what Fellaini's problem is. Very little positional sense either offensively or defensively. He is a ball watcher most of the times.
You would rather risk losing the game with 10 men including a tiring Rashford and a Mata that had no physical presence in either box? Serious question. What other alternatives were there?
You could see Burnley increased in confidence after Herrera came off, and with the likes of Rojo on the pitch, you're always likely to concede fouls. A set piece could've proved fatal.
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Fellaini's a goal scorer?