No prices for figuring out who this is aimed at. Not exactly surprising either that fireman Trump suggested the only option which wouldn't work.
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Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris | 15th April 2019
- Thread starter Lyricist
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I really feel for that person right now.
I bet he's been given the hump today.
Wow, sad to see something like that be damaged. Visited it a few years back, and it was beautiful to walk around. Glad that no one has been killed at least.
Going to be a long time before it is restored to it's former glory, not to mention very expensive.
Going to be a long time before it is restored to it's former glory, not to mention very expensive.
This actually hit home to me as an outspoken atheist, having been such since an early teenager. My club soccer team was in Paris immediately before playing the Norway Cup in summer 1991. We visited Notre Dame one evening & all my teammates & coaches queued up to light a candle & affix it into a candle holder in an alcove. These were the long candles. I said to myself, feck it, I’m here, why not light a candle? I was supremely in awe of the building. I went through the process, affixed my candle, then walked to the steps where my team was standing. A parent who was videotaping the trip had held back to tape everyone lighting their candles. Apparently mine immediately toppled over, wiped out dozens of candles next to mine, then it got bad. Due to the slope of the pieces of furniture holding the candlestick holders, the immediate morass of my toppled candle caused dozens of other lit candles to topple to the rugs on the ground, starting a couple to begin to smolder. Hot wax went everywhere, onto wood, other people, rugs, walls, etc. Workers at Notre Dame rushed to the rest of the candles, trying to snuff them out one by one with a candle extinguisher, but the conflagration I had caused meant they had to use buckets of water. It was at this point my mate’s parent who was still videotaping the whole ordeal was quickly & roughly ushered outside of the alcove. From my lighting the candle & placing it into the holder to the videotaping ceasing, it was just under four minutes elapsed time. We were quickly ushered back into our bus & driven quickly back to the hotel. It was only then, after watching local Parisian news, that my coaches told me what had happened. I had absolutely no idea, other than it was really weird that we basically jogged, no, ran, back to our bus from Notre Dame. I then saw the videotape. I felt sick.
I felt physically sick today, especially when it was revealed what all has apparently been lost to this fire. Even taking out of the equation the religious aspect, the history this building has touched & been a part of is jaw dropping. I hope they can restore it to its previous luminescence.
I felt physically sick today, especially when it was revealed what all has apparently been lost to this fire. Even taking out of the equation the religious aspect, the history this building has touched & been a part of is jaw dropping. I hope they can restore it to its previous luminescence.
Did Nathan and Sully escape?
The money to restore won't be a problem. That religion is rich as feck.
They could even get their salesmen to lay off the kids for a few years and save the money by not having to pay compensation.
They could even get their salesmen to lay off the kids for a few years and save the money by not having to pay compensation.
Picture from inside. The cross, altar, organ and pulpit survived the fire.
that must be before. Interior looks untouched.You can see the rubble and smoke at the far side.
The stone vaults seem to have protected the inside somewhat. The roof is entirely destroyed.
Nah, if you follow the link to the tweet and open the image in a new tab you can zoom in. Look at the top and you'll see a hole in the middle of the roof where the spire must have fallen through. Follow that down and you'll see a great pile of charred rubble in front of the pulpit. Looks like that's the only bit of the ceiling that gave way. Given the other footage, that's a pretty good result!
Surviving some of the most turbulent times in European history and then, in times where we have all the means to preserve it, this happens. Glad to see the inside in decent shape.
According to the BBC the window isn't original, that was destroyed in a previous fire. Even if it is the paint and leading will have been replaced dozens of times over the years. Very little would be left.
Thankfully, most of the damage was to newer sections which were renovated or added in the 19th century and a lot of the structure appears solid enough. There will have been significant losses to irreplaceable works of art but it's not as bad as first expected.
So Macron is is expecting the international community to pay to repair this church neglected by the French state?
I hate to say it but the Daily Mail has a good article with photos from the site
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...DMAN-witnesses-inside-ravaged-Notre-Dame.html
Weirldly their reporter managed to tag along with the French Prime Minister's official visit inside the vault of the cathedral.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...DMAN-witnesses-inside-ravaged-Notre-Dame.html
Weirldly their reporter managed to tag along with the French Prime Minister's official visit inside the vault of the cathedral.
It's sad to see such a thing happening to an iconic place like this whatever your religion is. Hopefully they rebuild it in a better shape.
i'm by no means an expert on things fire related, but it seems to me it was *wood* burning *in an open space* mainly (which could mean no chimney effect) which makes for spectacular high flames as we saw, but not all that much heat. Some newspaper stories say "up to 1000°C" but i have no idea how reliable that is.
That wouldn't be hot enough to melt steel.
Quite true. A similar fire occured at the historic 2000+ year old Madurai Meenakshi Temple here recently which houses intricate halls of sculptures and other priceless relics. I hope the damage to the structures of the Notre Dame and the relics within isn't extensive and whatever is lost can be replicated again.
I've read that, but I think it's just badly worded. I believe it is only the Rose sud which was reconstructed in its entirety. I think the Rose nord is mostly 13th century glass. When the situation becomes a bit clearer and the art historians finish mourning I'll ask someone who knows the building better than me.
And still, I know that there's a lot of relief that it's 'only Viollet-le-Duc's work' that has gone up in smoke, but that's still an important stage of the cathedrals living history just gone.
Edit: south and west windows have been restored in the past. North is 13th century glass.
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Strange outpouring of grief from the anti-Catholic CE forum. Nobody died and it's only a building. (Awful that a firefighter seriously injured, but this thread is clearly not about all the emergency services employees injured across the world yesterday).
Obviously as a Catholic I'd be upset at the intent had it been a targeted attack, but everything points to it being an accident, so why the melodrama?
Obviously as a Catholic I'd be upset at the intent had it been a targeted attack, but everything points to it being an accident, so why the melodrama?
Thought similarly as well but I suppose it is a major tourist attraction showcasing man's talents from the Middle-Ages onward and people can still appreciate beauty in buildings.
An odd comment as the fire happened during restoration work!
This does seem to be happening a lot these days though. The Cutty Sark and Glasgow School of Art both suffered disastrous fires during restoration work, the latter shortly before a new fire protection system was due to be commissioned. I hope that Manchester Town Hall (closed for six years for major work) doesn’t suffer the same fate
Looks like the Grand Orgue (the massive organ at the back) has got off relatively unscathed. I doubt if the smaller Choir Organ has been so lucky as it’s close to the collapsed vault.
It's a vital and beautiful part of European history. I very much dislike the Catholic Church, but they sure built some great buildings. I'm not a French nationalist either, but I'd still be sad if the Arc de Triomphe was ruined. It would be the same with the Hagia Sophia, the Cantebury Cathedral, Versailles, etc.
If you've never been I'd heartily recommend going when it reopens. It's an achingly beautiful building and the sheer scale and size of its beauty is breathtaking. At a basic level that question is a bit like asking why people care about art at all; you don't have to be religious to appreciate that aspect. People would be very sad if the Louvre burnt down, and Notre Dame is a 'museum' in its own right of similar renown.
But it also taps into something basic about historical enquiry. Its scale, size, and collection of relics are themselves relics of the culture, fabric, and belief systems of people who lived before. If you have any sense of history, then the loss of a building like Notre Dame is incredibly sad. And in this case that's all true whilst it is a place where so many historic events have taken place.
Exactly. It's simply a fact that it's sad to see such a great, in an architectural and historical sense, building burn. It would probably be the same for any other historical monument for me.
I doubt it's got much to do with it being a cathedral, rather that it's a place that has played a visual part in the story of the city and the world, and physically connects us to the achievements and story of our ancestors. I was shocked when the Mackintosh Building burned, some buildings are supposed to be exactly where they are. I'm saddened by the loss of any part of human cultural history.
In terms of emotional reactions, like a lot of buildings from the Acropolis, through the Taj Mahal to Blackpool Tower, people connect places and buildings to their own lives - whether that's because of a photo taken in front of them by a friend, or a memory they made there, or even a book they read. Yep, it's only a building, but some buildings hold more memories for individuals, and more stories or inspiration because of their longevity and their role in a place or time.
You kidding? The Vatican knows only 2 words "gimme" and when we have lawsuits against them then "fock", they don't give anything and I'm sure starting this Sunday they will ask for people to donate to the reconstruction of ND and I'm 100% sure part of that money will stay in the US so they can buy emerald rings to their bishops and other shit.
It was known to be in a state of disrepair long before the fire.An odd comment as the fire happened during restoration work!
This does seem to be happening a lot these days though. The Cutty Sark and Glasgow School of Art both suffered disastrous fires during restoration work, the latter shortly before a new fire protection system was due to be commissioned. I hope that Manchester Town Hall (closed for six years for major work) doesn’t suffer the same fate
While I agree with what most people answered already, I was also thinking along similar lines yesterday.
There's indeed something off when at the same time countless horrible things happen to living people, often without notice. On the other hand, the (partial) destruction of such an old monument feels like a loss for mankind. I saw a similar rose window in Lyon last year and I was blown away by its beauty and the level of craftsmanship involved. "It's only a building" doesn't cut it for me.
So there's truth to both angles, I guess. Neither feels completely right on its own, without being checked by the other.
Well yes, but it’s a bit of a myth that “ongoing maintenance” is a better way. Patching up as you go along can cause more harm and be more expensive than just letting things be, then carrying out a massive restoration project.
Mediaeval wood and lead roofs are a notorious fire hazard though (see York Minster, which doesn’t have the safety shield of stone vaults to protect the interior) and they are probably at their most vulnerable when they are having work done on them.
Good thread on Twitter here which touches on some of the reasons Notre Dame is such a remarkable building.
If you open up Twitter, you can translate the individual tweets if you can't read the French.
- points for the shittyHDR they used to start the thread though.
If you open up Twitter, you can translate the individual tweets if you can't read the French.
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- points for the shittyHDR they used to start the thread though.
'Ongoing maintenance' is the fact of these cathedrals throughout their entire history. You'd be hard pushed to find a time in the entire history of these buildings where something isn't being fixed, enlarged, or rebuilt. The current state of Notre Dame is the result of a dispute about who should pay for repairs rather than a deliberate policy. This article covers it: http://time.com/4876087/notre-dame-cathedral-is-crumbling/
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Zagreb cathedral is constantly under scaffolding, I don't think people who saw it without it are alive. It's all due to material, pollution, acid air, sensitivity if the building and so on. With Notre Dame it's even worse cause it's a lot older building.
That's exactly it, for me anyway.
Exactly. The Duomo in Milan took 600 years to build, finally finishing in 1965. It's already back under scaffolding. It's just the way it is with these massive old buildings. The local Duomo where I live has huge metal braces throughout it's structure and they're still always fiddling with it.
I've little time for the Catholic religion but this building goes beyond being just a church. It's something that belongs to the whole city, that's why it's so sad. There aren't many buildings in the world as recogniseable.
Well I have to appreciate the comments from others and of course understand them to be genuine. As a christian of course I like visiting this type of historical and beautiful building but I find more peace and calm in a country church away from the throngs but wouldn't deny them their interest.
I can't help feeling, not from this thread I hasten to add, but from the twitter and facebook type outpourings a sense of the cognitive dissonance from the same sort of people sharing their mass grief in front of Kensington Palace gates.
Comforting sight after yesterday. (Bottom of pic)Tweet
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