I remember Foden getting a lot of shit tbf. “Who does he think he is, Gazza?”
Football, skin color and perception
- Thread starter giorno
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Its the footballing equivalent of ‘all lives matter’.
David Beckham’s treatment was an outlier, and still doesn’t get close to the treatment that black players get en mass. It’s irrelevant, and a handy distraction from facing the institutional racism that’s being tackled in football.
People mentioning Foden - if a black player, say Sterling was missing games because he was partying while dying his hair it would be a completely different narrative right now. With Foden / Grealish, it’s ‘they’re a bit naughty, they’re lads’, if it was Zaha / Saka, it’d be thinly veiled hatred.
With the usual cretins in here trying subtly to divert it being called out for what it is.
We’ll said
Maybe your right. I don't see a lot of noticeably unfair criticisms of black players other than pogba.
And then there is greenwood foden England situation which I'm not really sure what is going on there (why one is still playing for england and the other isnt, although greenwood seems to maybe have taken himself out).
But I also admit I mighten just follow non united news closely enough to notice so I am not in a position to argue against any of your points really. For example I didn't even know there was an issue with foden and grealish partying
The big talking point at the moment is obviously lukaku and I've seen it compared to kane but there is subtle differences that I think warrant the different responses other than just skin colour. Maybe that's me being naive.
What's your thoughts on the different responses?
Complete rubbish,
Trying to pretend that the main reason Lukaku and Pogba have had a lot of negative press is because of their skin colour is just as wrong-headed as trying to pretend institutional racism doesn’t exist, in football or anywhere else.
It’s not as though we’re short of much more relevant examples of the media being twats about black footballers. Like the Daily Mail’s vile crusade against Raheem Sterling. Seeking offence where none exists (e.g. that clip praising Saka) helps nobody.
It’s not as though we’re short of much more relevant examples of the media being twats about black footballers. Like the Daily Mail’s vile crusade against Raheem Sterling. Seeking offence where none exists (e.g. that clip praising Saka) helps nobody.
Seeking offence….One of the best players in the league and a complete humble guy has a line of colour in his hair - Sadio Mane.
Yeah I agree with this. I don’t think you’ll find anyone denying this exists, Sterling is arguably the best example in recent years. Pogba and Lukaku aren’t the best people to hold up though, especially considering what Lukaku has been saying in the last week. You don’t need to pretend something is there when it isn’t.
To also act like the white players who get criticised are merely the exceptions that prove the rule is disingenuous too imo. I think people just love to knock down working class men who earn more than they do.
I’ve often wondered if black goalkeepers in football get negative perceptions à la black quarterbacks in the US from a couple of decades ago (& to a lesser extent now).
Come on now. It’s obvious what he’s saying. That Saka is only interested in football and doesn’t get caught up in the pop star affectations you see with some other footballers (one of whom is Phil Foden!). You can agree or disagree about what he’s saying but leaping to judge it as a racist verbal broadside on Paul Pogba is a hell of a stretch.
I think that’s definitely been the case in the past. Possibly some weird racist hang-up about a black man barking orders and organising his defence. Which seems to be changing along a similar timeline as quarterbacks, right?
Forgot about Sterling. That was definitely racist to me. No other reason for that hate campaign
Re Gary Neville his obvious bias is in favour of English players. So will cut Kane more slack than Lukaku and has been quick to call out the Portugese players over their moaning while ignoring poor performances from the likes of Shaw, Rashford or Maguire.
I always cringe a little bit when pundits for some reason express how they prefer black players to stay quiet/humble or whatever
It seems to be, but I think there will always be the racist view of a lack of intelligence or ability to process information that will exist in regards to black GKs / quarterbacks. It’s too entrenched in both sports & their culture.
Mendy is a good exemple, from France (but i might be wrong), it seems to me that he doesn't get enough praises for his performances in the UK (I realise you might not know since you're in florida).
I almost misread this. Good post.
Edit: I did misread it. Pogba gets dog abuse because of his genetics. Racism/othering doesn’t have to be as ‘vile’ as Daily Mails. What’s wrongheaded is acting as if there’s some kind of racism chart, both are wrong. Lukaku brings a lot of attention on himself but the ‘wears timberlands’ nonsense is rooted somewhere unsavoury.
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Nev may be biased when it comes to English players (national team players, not least) - but the Kane and Lukaku situations are hardly identical.
* Kane's interview was done during the summer transfer window, for one thing - not in the middle of the season.
* Kane didn't criticize the manager, unlike Lukaku who commented directly on Tuchel's system.
* Everyone knew that Kane wanted out, it was hardly a shock announcement. He had been at Spurs for years and was - supposedly - pissed off at Levy for not honouring a gentlemen's agreement. Lukaku had been at Chelsea for a few months and what he said came completely out of the blue, taking everyone at the club by surprise.
Beyond the fact that both players expressed not being settled - in one way or another - the two situations are very different.
* Kane's interview was done during the summer transfer window, for one thing - not in the middle of the season.
* Kane didn't criticize the manager, unlike Lukaku who commented directly on Tuchel's system.
* Everyone knew that Kane wanted out, it was hardly a shock announcement. He had been at Spurs for years and was - supposedly - pissed off at Levy for not honouring a gentlemen's agreement. Lukaku had been at Chelsea for a few months and what he said came completely out of the blue, taking everyone at the club by surprise.
Beyond the fact that both players expressed not being settled - in one way or another - the two situations are very different.
Who’s implying that? It’s not a binary issue.
If you didn’t hear the dog whistle here, then fair enough, but I certainly also interpreted it as a comment that suggested a preference for one black player, whilst “othering” of others.
He’s actually on the forefront of negative perception in my mind. If he was a white GK, I feel he would be lauded far more than he is (or I feel he is).
Kane skipped training, its worse
agree very different situations but what Kane did was even worse in my opinion
he tee'd up an interview on SKY just to request a move, and even put a price tag on himself.. it was outrageous
Kane is the England captain and Neville’s bias to his mates/English players he’s coached is well documented. Genuinely don’t think there’s any more to it than that, especially considering Neville’s outspoken history against racism.
Point being that the situations aren't really comparable - so it's not reasonable to expect identical reactions.
What's worse is debatable - depends on your POV, I suppose.
Another obvious difference between the two incidents is that Lukaku managed to - unintentionally, one has to assume, but still - insult his current team's fans on top of everything else. Kane's behaviour was clearly unprofessional but seemingly aimed directly at Levy, who from Kane's perspective was blocking a transfer move. He wasn't making comments that could be taken as being disrespectful towards the club on the whole.
What's worse is debatable - depends on your POV, I suppose.
Another obvious difference between the two incidents is that Lukaku managed to - unintentionally, one has to assume, but still - insult his current team's fans on top of everything else. Kane's behaviour was clearly unprofessional but seemingly aimed directly at Levy, who from Kane's perspective was blocking a transfer move. He wasn't making comments that could be taken as being disrespectful towards the club on the whole.
If ethnicity is so irrelevant why was France a fringe top8-10 nation in football and suddenly became an elite team after their lineup started having 8 to 9 African heritage players? Where is the non Immigrant French that can run like Mbappe?
Don said on twitter that he had a chat with Wright to understand how his comments came across and he apologized for it.
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this thread is about racial stereotypes not whether or not 'race' is irrelevant.. I don't think anyone is saying that
That’s good. Sounds like his heart is in the right place. Ian Wright’s a lovely bloke who I’m sure was talking sense (and, randomly, the only professional footballer I’ve ever met)
Kane missed training - essentially refused to do his job - Lukaku is miffed because he wants to do more.
Kane set up an interview on Sky TV to instigate his own move - Lukaku whinged to a non English media outlet about being signed and then not played.
Kane announced his own price tag - Lukaku hasn’t done so (yet).
Black players have, for decades, received so much unfair comparable treatment / perception it’s difficult to even begin when the denial stuff starts up…
It’s like dealing with conspiracy theorists in a way - like, they’re so far off and so far behind that having the belief you’ll get through to them quickly diminishes.
The thing that’s really important to remember when dealing with such complicated stuff like institutional racism, is that it isn’t always as simple as just ‘doesn’t like non white people’, or ‘actively identifies as a racist’…
It’s nuanced, it’s subtle, it’s deeply imbedded and is often subconscious.
This is the issue when folk like @Pogue Mahone wade in and treat it like it’s something they understand or are qualified to ‘diagnose’… when they aren’t, at all.
Understanding / seeing overt racism is easy - understanding institutional racism can be a lot harder.
And that’s ok. We don’t all have to understand everything! But it’s made more difficult by 2 things - 1. the current culture of everyone having an opinion on everything. 2. Covert racists that purposely set such debates back and consistently try to derail progressive discourse on the subject.
Same.
huh?
that's a really great followup from Wrighty/Hutchinson, fair play to them
Good healthy approach by all involved. Great to see.
Well done to Don Hutchison. The best response he could’ve given.
There was two stories in the DM a few years ago about two young City players, one was Foden the other a young black player. Foden was praised by the paper for buying his mum a house, the black player was met with, young player with too much money whos done nothing in the game having the audacity to buy his mum a new house.
Correct.
It's a ridiculous notion that black players are deemed "less technical and intelligent" than white players. I think most of us forget sometimes just how fast and intricate professional football let alone top flight football is. And while there may be players we might think are crap the reality is that you don't make it to that level without having technical ability, in game intelligence and strength (minus certain Spaniards) of the highest level.
Yeah that was a very blatant targeted racist agenda by the DM. It's also very obvious in how they cover general societal news. There's always been a very clear racist slant to everything they do.
So are you saying you think the reaction to lukaku compared to kane is down to skin colour and not the fact lukaku is doing this 4 months after moving, at the first sign of trouble, after asking inter for a new contract with 3 years left while having previous (what he's said about united)?
I'm not trying to catch you out here, I don't see racism in the reactions in thos particular instance, but maybe it's sitting right there in front of me and I'm being blind.
That was sterling wasn't it? It's was article after article after article.
There was even one about his tattoos as well.