I bloody hate xG, I think i'm probably getting old and grumpy but i dont like it.
For all the ETH haters. We are generating chances
- Thread starter Alek M
- Start date
Their expected goals is a bit weird because I don't remember them having too many clear cut chances
Cheers.
Yeah I’ve think their penalty really messes with the number. Bloody nerds!
They had the penalty and should have scored early on where they hit the post.
Yeah, the stats back up the actual results, which are pretty poor.
In fact, I even think we were lucky more often than not, remember our league opener against Wolves? That didn't even deserve a point, not to mention the win.
Also the wins against Burnley and Forest could've easily been draws, so I have the feeling that in terms of league position at least, we stand better than the actual performances deserve.
The only game I'd call us unlucky in terms of result, is the Galatasaray CL, that was a joke ending and not deserved at all.
Happy with the last 3 wins, even if the performances were poor, but that's how you stay in competition and build confidence first. I believe the football will get better as the confidence comes back.
In fact, I even think we were lucky more often than not, remember our league opener against Wolves? That didn't even deserve a point, not to mention the win.
Also the wins against Burnley and Forest could've easily been draws, so I have the feeling that in terms of league position at least, we stand better than the actual performances deserve.
The only game I'd call us unlucky in terms of result, is the Galatasaray CL, that was a joke ending and not deserved at all.
Happy with the last 3 wins, even if the performances were poor, but that's how you stay in competition and build confidence first. I believe the football will get better as the confidence comes back.
Garnacho was 1/1 and had McT just beside him which would of been a tap in. I dont get XxG, it is often a bit of a head scratcher. kind of like a "I am watching this game and that team didnt really look like scoring" but the xG is all weird.
United deserved the win and looked most likely to score. I mean Ericsons shot in second half when he had a clear shot on goal in the box, he really should of scored.
I dont think he will be sacked under this regime. If Ratcliffee finally gets his wish to buy into the club and take control of the football side of it, he will be on thin ice. Depends if/when we 'kick on'. This is mentioned after every win though, so has lost its impact.
I can see TH being given the majority of this season, but if by Feb/March we are out of Ch Lge and around 7th/8th place, with no improvement on the style, then Potter, or whoever else is on Ratcliffes radar, might be brought in to get their feet under the table, so not starting cold for the new season.
I can see TH being given the majority of this season, but if by Feb/March we are out of Ch Lge and around 7th/8th place, with no improvement on the style, then Potter, or whoever else is on Ratcliffes radar, might be brought in to get their feet under the table, so not starting cold for the new season.
Second year in a row we are at negative goal difference. Most of last season we were at negative.
6 teams above us has 10+ goals or more, and we are sitting at a healthy -2 atm.
So no, its not bad luck.
6 teams above us has 10+ goals or more, and we are sitting at a healthy -2 atm.
So no, its not bad luck.
Ye but did they still dominate? Our games are toe to toe. They’re having the same amount as chances as us.
Newcastle scored 8
it's easy to apply the logic that it's just our lack of finishing letting us down but if you look at the bigger picture we have been let of the hook with the opposition guilty of the same thing in our matches, just look at last night for example, Copenhagen could have easily taken the lead with the Maguire error
The 'haters' stuff is really immature. Like a lot of fans I really like EtH and want him to succeed but it's been hard work for what feels like a long period now, with very little signs of progress.
Do we create lots of chances? Yes and no. the problem is the first half is usually dire and we are creating barely anything and usually fall a goal behind or the atmosphere around the team/fans looks toxic because we're so fecking fed up of watching this shower of shite yet again. This changes in the second half (maybe the players are actually shamed into actually putting in some effort?) and we create things but are so wasteful and unintelligent.
Why can't we play attacking football for 90 minutes? why do we always have to have a drama before we start making actual chances? Why is the attack and midfield so inept?
Do we create lots of chances? Yes and no. the problem is the first half is usually dire and we are creating barely anything and usually fall a goal behind or the atmosphere around the team/fans looks toxic because we're so fecking fed up of watching this shower of shite yet again. This changes in the second half (maybe the players are actually shamed into actually putting in some effort?) and we create things but are so wasteful and unintelligent.
Why can't we play attacking football for 90 minutes? why do we always have to have a drama before we start making actual chances? Why is the attack and midfield so inept?
This shows exactly how xG is bunch of bolocks. They were added something like 0.8 only because of penalty, and our two 100% chances were not included because we didn't have a shot off. Anyone using only xG as some "evidence" is clueless like the stat he is using.
Spurs had 28 shots vs 7, City 30-6. We had 14-12 and they had more on target.
It's fine to have the occasional game against a supposedly weaker side where you struggle to break them down and end up winning narrowly, or not at all. We had many of these under Fergie too and you just attributed them to just not being our day.
It becomes an issue when you get constantly matched/outplayed by lesser teams and seem unable to really dominate any of these games. We technically dominated Nottingham, Palace and Brentford games on stats but we went down very early in all of them which encouraged the opposition to sit back and absorb the pressure, especially as we don't seem particularly good at breaking teams down anyway.
I mean... The penalty did happen didn't it? There's a very real chance if McTominay doesn't stick his boot up that their guy has a free header at the back post for an easy goal.
And yes we had big chances that our players didn't turn into shots. Both of those are true. If we got our shots off maybe put xG would be closer to 2.2-2.5 range. We didn't so it doesn't matter. There's no way to spin yesterday as if we dominated. We were better in the 2nd half but were lucky to get away with the win given their late chance. They were the much better side in the first half. A draw on the balance of the 90 minutes would have been pretty fair, which is basically what that shows.
We also played against Burnley with the same story where we were lucky to end with a win, while both Spurs and City dominated those games. It's one thing having the odd off day. It's another when you have this situation every time you play against a bottom half level opponent. And when you just deservedly lose against every top half opponent. That just points to being a mid table side.
The same amount of chances could be that we had arguably our 4th and 5th choice centerbacks, our second choice rightback and our 3rd choice centerback at leftback? In fairness, we had over 60% of the ball.
Yeah, that's fair. But it's also worth remembering we've had horrendous luck with injures during these games. Missing up to eight players at this point and still getting a result away from home is a good thing.
Standards of United fans in terms of manager expectations:
2010: win the league, latter stages of CL and play attractive attacking football
2015: make top four, challenge for the title soon, play at least somewhat attractive non-boring football at times
2020: just make top four
2023: create chances against Copenhagen and Galatasaray
2010: win the league, latter stages of CL and play attractive attacking football
2015: make top four, challenge for the title soon, play at least somewhat attractive non-boring football at times
2020: just make top four
2023: create chances against Copenhagen and Galatasaray
Do people just make threads now without even watching United?
Clearly not.
Clearly not.
There are no "ETH haters". None of us are sat around saying "I bloody hate ETH, I really hope he fails". Some of us can't see that there's any improvement, or even plan, at all, and that's our concern.
He sounds like a Manchester United manager and I actually like him as a bloke - but I'm not sure he's got the eye for a player, for a solution or the coaching/tactical ability to be a truly elite coach.
He sounds like a Manchester United manager and I actually like him as a bloke - but I'm not sure he's got the eye for a player, for a solution or the coaching/tactical ability to be a truly elite coach.
Congratulations ETH. Your team made chances during one half v Copenhagen.
Unfortunately we are not. I could at times be fine with the number of chances we currently create - which you can count on half a hand - if we were rock solid at defending (as a team), but we are incredibly, like stupidly open. Therefore we actually need to create much much more.
Agree. Everyone wants to see him succeed. I too like the guy and a lot of what he has done. But for whatever reason, he is not getting anything out of these players.
There is no repeatable patterns of play, no clear system, no pressing. He is chopping and changing his team. He throws away his principles to include McTominay just because he scored a couple v Brentford. He has spent huge amounts of money on players that are no where near good enough, Anthony, or is not using, Mount.
It doesn't feel like we are better off with ETH over the past year and a half than we were under Ole.
We dont create enough good chances. And you need lots because not every good chance is scored. Even the most clinical strikers dont have anywhere near 100% chance conversion.
besides which, what is this OP? If we are 14th and out the cups in December but have ‘made chances’ then everything is grand? Its about results at the end of the day.
We are dire all over the pitch at the moment and are only scraping wins against the weakest of teams. Absolutely no sign if us picking up and going on a run of form at the moment and there hasnt been at any point this season. I have no complaints with last night if we have an off game in the middle of a good run but it was another dire performance and we were lucky to take all 3 points
besides which, what is this OP? If we are 14th and out the cups in December but have ‘made chances’ then everything is grand? Its about results at the end of the day.
We are dire all over the pitch at the moment and are only scraping wins against the weakest of teams. Absolutely no sign if us picking up and going on a run of form at the moment and there hasnt been at any point this season. I have no complaints with last night if we have an off game in the middle of a good run but it was another dire performance and we were lucky to take all 3 points
I would agree that creating lots of chances but barely scrapping a win is fine, as the chances will eventually turn into goals long-term.
But we are not even close to creating enough chances. xG won't convince me otherwise, especially since those numbers don't even back up your claim. They say we are exactly where we deserve.
I dare you to watch the first 60 mins of yesterday's game and writing down every high danger scoring chance you find.
With the addition of Eriksen and the growing desperation for anything really, the goal chances started to come but your standards have fallen pretty low if 3-4 goal chances at home against Copenhagen is what you'd call a good performance.
The performances so far have not been acceptable!
That being said, we are still in possibility of CL KO round and the top teams have given away enough points in the league for us not to be completely dead already, so there is still hope for improvements!
ETH shouldn't be in question. I don't get all of his actions, lineups and subs, but there should be a minimum of 2 years for a manager to prove himself. Otherwise the club gets lost in the hamster wheel. He did fine last season, let's see if he can build on it.
It's not like there is a huge british manager talent out there waiting for the job.
But we are not even close to creating enough chances. xG won't convince me otherwise, especially since those numbers don't even back up your claim. They say we are exactly where we deserve.
I dare you to watch the first 60 mins of yesterday's game and writing down every high danger scoring chance you find.
With the addition of Eriksen and the growing desperation for anything really, the goal chances started to come but your standards have fallen pretty low if 3-4 goal chances at home against Copenhagen is what you'd call a good performance.
The performances so far have not been acceptable!
That being said, we are still in possibility of CL KO round and the top teams have given away enough points in the league for us not to be completely dead already, so there is still hope for improvements!
ETH shouldn't be in question. I don't get all of his actions, lineups and subs, but there should be a minimum of 2 years for a manager to prove himself. Otherwise the club gets lost in the hamster wheel. He did fine last season, let's see if he can build on it.
It's not like there is a huge british manager talent out there waiting for the job.
That's the story of the last 10 years TBH. Despite the enormous amount of money spent, we couldn't manage to build a team with technical players that plays possesion based game and dominates opposition.
I hope ten Hag reverts to last years tactics and we play more on the counter. Should focus on improving our defence too. That's the only way we could get results nowadays. Especially in the remaining CL games. Otherwise I see us going out of CL in group stages.
Was actually surprised to see that his win ratio is 64% .
All thats being generated is a long tedious list of excuses
This is disrupted by his lack of draws. Out of interest, these are loss ratios ranked by manager since SAF
DM 29.4
ETH 24
OGS 23.8
LVG 23.3
JM 19.5
SAF 17.8
under ETH its like we either turn up or we dont.
SAF still the GOAT
Whilst I'm sure this is the case for many. There are some who post with that narrative, sadly.
We have played 1 ONE!!! good game out of 13 this season, when we also won comfortably.
I really want to trust ETH but I just can't, no matter how hard I try.
I really want to trust ETH but I just can't, no matter how hard I try.
Expecting a manager in his second year after getting many of his preferred targets to have a team that creates a good amount of chances/scores goals isn't "hating". It could be excused last season as we genuinely lacked any sort of goal scoring outlets outside of Rashford and we were just learning how to play under ETH so being solid defensively was more important. But there's no excuse this season, and CERTAINLY not an excuse to become so much worse in playing style and structure so far. It genuinely looks as static as I've seen post SAF, and we are just mediocre at everything without any strengths as a team. That falls solely on ETH's shoulders, especially when you watch a team like Spurs play a very pleasing style after only a couple of months under their new manager. Our build up structure is a joke, and we don't have a set plan for creating chances.
You think the guys above him care about xG or patterns of play or whatever? Bad results, will get bad press, will get a sack.
Cough
Hojlund chance
Garnacho chance
Rashford change
xG was like 2.4.
Goals will come.
Hojlund chance
Garnacho chance
Rashford change
xG was like 2.4.
Goals will come.
There are for sure Caf posters who think exactly like that. Ronaldo fanboys, Pochettino fanboys, Ole/Rangnick loyalists, etc.