Frank Lampard | Chelsea manager

TheMagicFoolBus

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Sorry, forgot that only trophies won in England count. :wenger:
Do you think Ole would have got the job had he NOT been successful at Molde?
I think that any success or failures he'd had at Molde had virtually no bearing on his appointment at United, and that using trophies won in Norway as evidence that he's more likely to be a better manager in the future in the PL is preposterous.
 

Champ

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I think that any success or failures he'd had at Molde had virtually no bearing on his appointment at United, and that using trophies won in Norway as evidence that he's more likely to be a better manager in the future in the PL is preposterous.
So, had he been poor at Molde you still think United would have wanted him to be manager?
I don't,
I never once stated he is more likely to be a better manager in the premiership, you jumped to your own conclusions on that, I was highlighting the fact he's won more than a lot of managers have and he's had a better season than Lampard.
But again, I forgot that trophies outside of England don't count :lol:
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Finished above Chelsea you mean..
I mean finished on 66pts, same as Chelsea.

Honestly, if our roles were reversed, that is United get a transfer ban, loose whoever was your best player last season(Pogba?) and hire Gary Neville as your manager, whiles Chelsea spends 200m, enters second season with Sarri and keeping Hazard....I'd be pretty disappointed as a Chelsea fan if we ended up on the same points as United at 3rd or 4th. A Sarri sack by then would be understandable as well.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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So, had he been poor at Molde you still think United would have wanted him to be manager?
I don't,
I never once stated he is more likely to be a better manager in the premiership, you jumped to your own conclusions on that, I was highlighting the fact he's won more than a lot of managers have and he's had a better season than Lampard.
But again, I forgot that trophies outside of England don't count :lol:
United obviously wanted a stopgap in the wake of the Mourinho catastrophe. I really doubt they were putting any weight on trophies he was winning in a league so poor it can't even be called a farmers' league.

Enjoy totting up his meaningless cups that are worth about as much as a community shield though!
 

AltiUn

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I mean finished on 66pts, same as Chelsea.

Honestly, if our roles were reversed, that is United get a transfer ban, loose whoever was your best player last season(Pogba?) and hire Gary Neville as your manager, whiles Chelsea spends 200m, enters second season with Sarri and keeping Hazard....I'd be pretty disappointed as a Chelsea fan if we ended up on the same points as United at 3rd or 4th. A Sarri sack by then would be understandable as well.
Yeah, let's just ignore that Pogba missed 90% of the season, shall we?

Sure you had a transfer ban, yet you still managed to sign Pulisic while reaping the benefit of Mount, Tomori, Abraham returning et al, some of whom have years of first team experience. It's pretty disingenuous to act like Lampard's had nothing to work with. In all honesty I think it's an extremely lazy excuse to wave away any issues Lampard's had.
 

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Sorry mate not trying to be a dickhead or anything but the past few pages have focused on this news. Can't really blame you for not wanting to wade through it though!
:lol:

Heaven forbid anyone discuss news of Lampard being shortlisted for Manager of the Year on a Frank Lampard thread.
 

RedSky

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Chelsea had a massive squad anyway with their dozens of players on loan strategy. It's not like having a transfer ban hurt them much.
 

roonster09

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I mean finished on 66pts, same as Chelsea.

Honestly, if our roles were reversed, that is United get a transfer ban, loose whoever was your best player last season(Pogba?) and hire Gary Neville as your manager, whiles Chelsea spends 200m, enters second season with Sarri and keeping Hazard....I'd be pretty disappointed as a Chelsea fan if we ended up on the same points as United at 3rd or 4th. A Sarri sack by then would be understandable as well.
What a weird and twisted post.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I watched the game last night with my Chelsea supporting cousin. To be fair he took it on the chin in a detached sort of way, reasoning that they had a hell of an uphill struggle before kick-off and that it didn't matter much. I could see where he was coming from but I made the point that for me Frank will have been hurt and disappointed by that brutal aggregate scoreline and will well remember the players that stood up to be counted against the odds and those that didn't. He's got a few re-enforcements coming in but he'll know there's more he'll need to do to that first team to have them challenging for the big trophies, and getting annihilated by a top European side will have focused his mind in that direction.
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Yeah, let's just ignore that Pogba missed 90% of the season, shall we?

Sure you had a transfer ban, yet you still managed to sign Pulisic while reaping the benefit of Mount, Tomori, Abraham returning et al, some of whom have years of first team experience. It's pretty disingenuous to act like Lampard's had nothing to work with. In all honesty I think it's an extremely lazy excuse to wave away any issues Lampard's had.
“Pogba missed 90% of the season” Is that a lazy excuse I see for Ole there?

Pulisic? Oh you mean the “marketing tool” benched by an 18yr old coming into the ‘tough tough’ EPL and will need to adapt? No one in their right senses saw Pulisic as a direct replacement for Hazard. Not when the transfer was confirmed in January and not when the season began in August. He's done well but let's not revise our note shall we?

Benefitted from Mount, Abraham, Tomori, James. Yes of course he has, he played them and they took their chances and performed admirably. These were youth players with their highest level so far being the championship. 4 of them! You had one championship level player to play in your team and if comments on this forum are to go by, the lot would rather not see him start ever again. Credit to our youngsterd for stepping up but everyone knows its still a very hard step up from championship to PL level, esp for a young player. We had four(4) of them at the same time for a team already facing a battle to make top 4.

No one is hiding Lampard’s failings this season, its pretty obvious. Maybe you don't like it that a few guys on screens aren't whipping him with it 24/7 but take a trip on any Chelsea forum and its a concerned and critique point of Lampard to many fans. You can recognise the failings of someone and still praise his accomplishments.
 

He'sRaldo

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Why the desperation to slag off Lampard? Seems a bit strange.
 

AltiUn

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“Pogba missed 90% of the season” Is that a lazy excuse I see for Ole there?

Pulisic? Oh you mean the “marketing tool” benched by an 18yr old coming into the ‘tough tough’ EPL and will need to adapt? No one in their right senses saw Pulisic as a direct replacement for Hazard. Not when the transfer was confirmed in January and not when the season began in August. He's done well but let's not revise our note shall we?

Benefitted from Mount, Abraham, Tomori, James. Yes of course he has, he played them and they took their chances and performed admirably. These were youth players with their highest level so far being the championship. 4 of them! You had one championship level player to play in your team and if comments on this forum are to go by, the lot would rather not see him start ever again. Credit to our youngsterd for stepping up but everyone knows its still a very hard step up from championship to PL level, esp for a young player. We had four(4) of them at the same time for a team already facing a battle to make top 4.

No one is hiding Lampard’s failings this season, its pretty obvious. Maybe you don't like it that a few guys on screens aren't whipping him with it 24/7 but take a trip on any Chelsea forum and its a concerned and critique point of Lampard to many fans. You can recognise the failings of someone and still praise his accomplishments.
I'm just replying to your point about Hazard, apples and oranges.

No one's saying Pulisic was a direct Hazard replacement, but that wasn't the point I was making, as I'm sure you're aware. The point was he was a new signing. It's honestly remarkable how readily you try shifting the goalposts.

Again, you intentionally missed my point there, the post was about senior experience and how the transfer ban barely affected you because of it, they've played first team football for years. Abraham, for example has been a senior player for 4 years, Tomori's been playing senior football for 3 years and so on. They aren't youth players by any stretch of the imagination, really.

I don't view Chelsea forums, I just reply to what I see on here, and what I see here is Lampard being defended vehemetly at every point.
 

cyberman

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I mean finished on 66pts, same as Chelsea.

Honestly, if our roles were reversed, that is United get a transfer ban, loose whoever was your best player last season(Pogba?) and hire Gary Neville as your manager, whiles Chelsea spends 200m, enters second season with Sarri and keeping Hazard....I'd be pretty disappointed as a Chelsea fan if we ended up on the same points as United at 3rd or 4th. A Sarri sack by then would be understandable as well.
Transfer ban, transfer ban, transfer ban.
We sold our top scorer last season without replacing him as well.
Maybe dont get banned in the first place? Youll get no sympathy from me. Take your licks instead of leaning on it like a crutch.
If anything you had a shiney new attacker during your ban. Some hardship alright.
 

ShareEndorphins

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This thread is getting worse and worse i mean its like a competition on who got the most excuses for Lampard or Ole.
An endless back and fourth on which important player got injured or not, youth being played or not, money being spent or not and so on....

Idk how anybody can really be happy with 66points (yes united fans you finished above us, great).
The saving grace for both was top 4 and thats it.
 

Champ

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United obviously wanted a stopgap in the wake of the Mourinho catastrophe. I really doubt they were putting any weight on trophies he was winning in a league so poor it can't even be called a farmers' league.

Enjoy totting up his meaningless cups that are worth about as much as a community shield though!
Obviously you are not understanding quite what I'm saying, so it's probably best that I stop, before you jump to any other random conclusions. :lol:
Just leave you with the same question as before: Would United have wanted Ole if he wasn't performing at Molde?
Read it, then re read it, then read it again, you might maybe understand then!! I know it's tricky :lol:
 

ShareEndorphins

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Obviously you are not understanding quite what I'm saying, so it's probably best that I stop, before you jump to any other random conclusions. :lol:
Just leave you with the same question as before: Would United have wanted Ole if he wasn't performing at Molde?
Read it, then re read it, then read it again, you might maybe understand then!! I know it's tricky :lol:
Yes
 

romufc

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I mean finished on 66pts, same as Chelsea.

Honestly, if our roles were reversed, that is United get a transfer ban, loose whoever was your best player last season(Pogba?) and hire Gary Neville as your manager, whiles Chelsea spends 200m, enters second season with Sarri and keeping Hazard....I'd be pretty disappointed as a Chelsea fan if we ended up on the same points as United at 3rd or 4th. A Sarri sack by then would be understandable as well.
Okay, let me just out you straight.

Firstly, Chelsea cheated - got a transfer ban - Chelsea at fault.

We lost Lukaku last summer and spent £150m in the summer. We hired Ole who everyone is calling a worse manager than Lampard.

Chelsea DID get Pulisic and Kovacic.

If roles were reversed and we got players back from loan like Chelsea had, Chelsea fans compared Rashford and Tammy at the start.

A month in we lost Pogba for most of the season, then we lost Shaw, Martial, McTominay, Rashford for large periods of the season.

Then we signed Bruno to bring it up to £200m.

Finally, this was a Manutd team that finished 6th compared to Chelsea team that wont he Europa and finished 3rd. There is a massive difference.
 

Dancfc

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If roles were reversed and we got players back from loan like Chelsea had, Chelsea fans compared Rashford and Tammy at the start.
Fairly certain it was a United fan that started that.
 

romufc

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Fairly certain it was a United fan that started that.
Fair enough, still think if you turn it back to the start of the season, our first 11 was better than Chelsea's however, Chelsea had a much better squad. We lost alot of players to injuries etc..

Looking at it now, Chelsea have done better than most people thought to get top 4, same with United.

Frank and Ole have both done good jobs imo given the circumstances both have faced. There will always be arguments why one has done better than the other. The points total keeps getting brought up, 66 points but that isnt Manutd or Chelsea's fault that Spurs, Arsenal and the other teams didn't kick on from last season.
 

Powderfinger

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Its only one sequence but this is a true managerial disasterclass. The play is bad but the positioning is far worse. The team doesn't seem to know whether they should be pressing or not, the defensive line is playing a very low block but the midfield isn't coordinating with them so the space between the lines is far too big, the midfield is also spread too wide so its easy to pick a pass to one of the three open players standing between the lines as the move begins, the CBs are like deer caught in the headlights once the ball goes between the lines, etc. Its like a training exercise for Bayern - pass between the cones, lay it off, another player runs behind the cones.

 

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What seems to be overlooked in any Ole vs Frank comparison is the difference in pressure and expectations on the two managers.

For Lampard this season was effectively seen as a free pass due to the transfer ban and it being his first season at Chelsea and in the PL. Him being a young, English manager with lots of in the media didn’t hurt either.

For Ole he started the season well out of the honeymoon period, coming into a new season with the bare minimum expectation of top 4.

He had many questioning him (media and United fans alike) going into the season due to how last season finished, selling Lukaku with no replacement and spending big on Maguire/AWB. Big question marks over Pogba’s future going into the season also didn’t help.

Every time we dropped points he had the media and a good chunk of our own fans clamouring to get him sacked, and any time we did do well it would be about Bruno or how much we spent in the summer. With Frank it seemed to always be a case of “oh he’s new/transfer ban/sold Hazard” therefore he’s still doing great given the circumstances.

Also it’s the United job - there’s just much more spotlight on the manager than at Chelsea.

To come out on top league wise with all that added pressure means for me Ole’s done the better job this season.
The job Solskjaer has done should be evaluated on it's own merits and not against a guy who walked into a job with one hand tied behind his back.

Solskjaer too over what most United fans would say was a wreck the season before under Mourinho so the bar for that season was set low thanks to Jose's failings. The team finished with 66 points.

Solskjaer had those months to work with and evaluate the squad, spent £150m in the summer, another depending on which reports you believe £50m-£65m in January and his side accumulated 0 more points than the season prior again finishing on 66 points.
 

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The job Solskjaer has done should be evaluated on it's own merits and not against a guy who walked into a job with one hand tied behind his back.

Solskjaer too over what most United fans would say was a wreck the season before under Mourinho so the bar for that season was set low thanks to Jose's failings. The team finished with 66 points.

Solskjaer had those months to work with and evaluate the squad, spent £150m in the summer, another depending on which reports you believe £50m-£65m in January and his side accumulated 0 more points than the season prior again finishing on 66 points.
Lampard had one hand tied behind his back? :lol:

Your username is almost perfect.
 

UweBein

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Way too early for anyone to judge him but christ Chelsea defending has been terrible.
Beyond terrible, really.
Frank needs to come up with a strategy that allows us to defend in numbers - especially against the top teams I would prefer a Conte type of game plan.
 

Mb194dc

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Beyond terrible, really.
Frank needs to come up with a strategy that allows us to defend in numbers - especially against the top teams I would prefer a Conte type of game plan.
That's a totally different style of football, can't really switch between how Lampard has us setup and Conte system.

It's interesting I think that everyone though prior to season we would struggle to score goals because Hazard always had so many assists and goals and we were too reliant on him. Then we actually score 6 more goals in the league, but in doing so our defense goes to pot and we concede 15 more.

We'll defend from the front next season and having a LB who can play like that in a back 4 key to us improving I think. It's a hard way to play as so high up the pitch most of the time, always vulnerable to counter if lose the ball in the wrong place. Also have to take chances when dominant or you end up losing, like we did against Bournemouth at home last season. Ultimately I prefer style of football Lampard is trying to play.
 

Caesar2290

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This thread is getting worse and worse i mean its like a competition on who got the most excuses for Lampard or Ole.
An endless back and fourth on which important player got injured or not, youth being played or not, money being spent or not and so on....

Idk how anybody can really be happy with 66points (yes united fans you finished above us, great).
The saving grace for both was top 4 and thats it.
Mate, why are you so obsessed with points? Who cares if it's 66 or 22? It's the league table that matters. We finished above you this year so deal with it.

Leicester won their title with 81 points. Do you think anyone cares that "Oh you only had 81 points so technically it's not that impressive blah blah blah"

And realistically nobody here expected us to finish above City and Pool this year. And nobody expected us in the middle of December to finish above you lot.
 

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The job Solskjaer has done should be evaluated on it's own merits and not against a guy who walked into a job with one hand tied behind his back.

Solskjaer too over what most United fans would say was a wreck the season before under Mourinho so the bar for that season was set low thanks to Jose's failings. The team finished with 66 points.

Solskjaer had those months to work with and evaluate the squad, spent £150m in the summer, another depending on which reports you believe £50m-£65m in January and his side accumulated 0 more points than the season prior again finishing on 66 points.
People have short memory. The recent good run of form has made people forget how miserable we were in the first half of the season. Chelsea was the complete opposite, you had a great start but people now only remember the dipped form towards the end of the season. Many fans have been very lenient and tolerant towards Ole (understandable though), but they're not applying the same standard to other managers and they can't wait to mock them to illustrate the greatness of Ole.

To me Lampard certainly has some tactical flaws (e.g. back 3/4 problem, defensive setup, use of Kante etc.) but overall he has done a good job this year. He manages the departure of Hazard and the transfer ban pretty well and he uses the academy products extensively. I simply can't imagine how fans would react if Ole does the same. But next year the expectation will be higher with the money you spend on Werner and Ziyech and it's time to judge him properly.
 

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That's the joke.
What’s the point in constantly trying to point out who’s better between Lampard and Ole? They both walked into s**t situations for different reasons, and both have bagged CL football for next season. They both did what they set out to do.
 

romufc

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People have short memory. The recent good run of form has made people forget how miserable we were in the first half of the season. Chelsea was the complete opposite, you had a great start but people now only remember the dipped form towards the end of the season. Many fans have been very lenient and tolerant towards Ole (understandable though), but they're not applying the same standard to other managers and they can't wait to mock them to illustrate the greatness of Ole.

To me Lampard certainly has some tactical flaws (e.g. back 3/4 problem, defensive setup, use of Kante etc.) but overall he has done a good job this year. He manages the departure of Hazard and the transfer ban pretty well and he uses the academy products extensively. I simply can't imagine how fans would react if Ole does the same. But next year the expectation will be higher with the money you spend on Werner and Ziyech and it's time to judge him properly.
So Ole is crap but Lampard has done well? How exactly?

He managed the transfer ban, with the help of getting Pulisic and Kovavic in as well? along with a host of loan players coming back, it isnt like he picked up players from the U23 and got them to play, alot of the players he has played have had championship football experience, Mount and Tomori also played under him at Derby so he knew their quality.

You were here saying Ole hasn't used academy products, but we have given more debuts than any other season? More than Chelsea btw. Ole has given debuts to players like Brandon Williams, Greenwood etc who have never played mens football.

Lampard knew he had no hazard coming into the job, Ole went into the season with a team and losing the best player for most part (Pogba) through injury is his fault though? Then consistently losing his better players throughout the season.

He also lost a striker in the summer, so why are you giving one more credit than the other?

They have both done well this season, nothing exceptional.
 

WeePat

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What’s the point in constantly trying to point out who’s better between Lampard and Ole? They both walked into s**t situations for different reasons, and both have bagged CL football for next season. They both did what they set out to do.
That's the top and bottom of it as far as I'm concerned. Everything else is just people attempting to goad each other.
 

RooneyLegend

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This is not a remotely good argument given that your Hazard-less attack has functioned very very well. What reason for the shocking regression in your defensive stability?
Hazard gave the back 5 confidence?
 

hmchan

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So (1) Ole is crap but Lampard has done well? How exactly?

He managed the transfer ban, with the help of getting Pulisic and Kovavic in as well? along with a host of loan players coming back, it isnt like he picked up players from the U23 and got them to play, alot of the players he has played have had (2) championship football experience, Mount and Tomori also played under him at Derby so he knew their quality.

You were here saying (3) Ole hasn't used academy products, but we have given more debuts than any other season? More than Chelsea btw. Ole has given debuts to players like Brandon Williams, Greenwood etc who have never played mens football.

Lampard knew he had no hazard coming into the job, Ole went into the season with a team and losing the best player for most part (Pogba) through injury is his fault though? Then consistently losing his better players throughout the season.

(4) He also lost a striker in the summer, so why are you giving one more credit than the other?

They have both done well this season, nothing exceptional.
(1) I haven't said Ole is crap. He is also doing average to well this season, nothing exceptional just like Lampard, but the double standards from the fans are annoying. They have been very lenient and tolerant towards Ole, while becoming extremely critical when it comes to other managers (not just Lampard) even they're doing the same thing. The attempts to mock Lampard are incredible when Ole is doing equally well/poor.

(2) Like I said in #861, United fans never take Championship football into consideration. When Henderson won the Golden Glove and Player of the Year last year, people thought Championship was irrelevant and refused to look at his performance properly. They said he had to be loaned out for a few more seasons to prove himself (some still think that way). Suddenly Championship is directly translated to guaranteed PL starters?

(3) Again you are making things up. What I said is that Lampard uses academy products extensively, where Mount has played 2874 minutes, Abraham has played 2221 minutes and James has played 1510 minutes in the PL. Tomori and Hudson-Odoi are also heavily involved when they are fit. What helps their development is extensive, consistent chances in the first team, not a few minutes coming off the bench to make a debut. (P. S. I criticized even more heavily when van Gaal handed debuts to a bunch of random players without plan.)

(4) I thought Ole wanted Lukaku gone?
 

romufc

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(1) I haven't said Ole is crap. He is also doing average to well this season, nothing exceptional just like Lampard, but the double standards from the fans are annoying. They have been very lenient and tolerant towards Ole, while becoming extremely critical when it comes to other managers (not just Lampard) even they're doing the same thing. The attempts to mock Lampard are incredible when Ole is doing equally well/poor.

(2) Like I said in #861, United fans never take Championship football into consideration. When Henderson won the Golden Glove and Player of the Year last year, people thought Championship was irrelevant and refused to look at his performance properly. They said he had to be loaned out for a few more seasons to prove himself (some still think that way). Suddenly Championship is directly translated to guaranteed PL starters?

(3) Again you are making things up. What I said is that Lampard uses academy products extensively, where Mount has played 2874 minutes, Abraham has played 2221 minutes and James has played 1510 minutes in the PL. Tomori and Hudson-Odoi are also heavily involved when they are fit. What helps their development is extensive, consistent chances in the first team, not a few minutes coming off the bench to make a debut. (P. S. I criticized even more heavily when van Gaal handed debuts to a bunch of random players without plan.)

(4) I thought Ole wanted Lukaku gone?

1. I think most people realise they have done similar jobs this year, I have been on most threads and alot of threads have Ole out. So I am not sure where you are getting this theory from.

2. No, they wanted Henderson to get Pl experience, which is fair enough. Don't forget Tammy has had PL experience as well.

3. Okay, just because they were not Chelsea seasoned pro's, Ole has used Rashford (academy) 2655, McTominay 1772, Greenwood, Williams as well. So i dont get this excessive praise for Lampard using academy products, it's not like they have never played before like some of the United ones.