Fred is one of the most underrated players in England
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so there’s a few ways to look at it. One great deep lying playmaker plays behind Pogba and Bruno. I still don’t think there’s enough work rate to edge scrappy games or tempo in there to dominate the tight games against the better teams. Yes we might totally outclass our opponents on any given day but you have to be up for a battle most of the time and every team has players that can hurt you on the counter in the PL nowadays. I think defensively that still falls short and as I said I don’t think Pogba and Bruno play all that well together.
and the other way is one defensive mid, one neutral who helps out attack and defence cleaning up and moving the ball forward fast to the players who can do the real damage and one attacking midfielder. I think that’s by far the most balanced approach. That doesn’t have to be Fred there but just for arguments sake I think a 3 like that is far more balanced. It lends itself to more organised counter pressing.
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thats because it’s only negative on paper. When we press high up it’s anything but negative. When we play with too many attackers offering the same thing it looks good on paper but we are totally passive when it comes to letting the other team play and build momentum.
I agree, few come up with ridiculous "We play 2 DMs" it's like they don't even watch the game and goes by how the line up looks on paper.
Not only this, few always starts with 3 CB system is a defensive football when Atalanta scores shit loads of goals playing the same system.
Feck it lads I was on the fence before but Fred is definitely my favourite player now 
It’s all perception. Liverpool have the middle packed full of graft and legs. Milner is probably the most technical ball player they have in there and he’s not even a starter. It’s nothing to write home about from a technical standpoint but it’s a solid solid base so your full backs can spend the day playing like 90s wingers... which is handy if your forwards like to cut in. Sounds familiar.
I couldn’t believe it when people started steaming into Fred after the last game. Our highest paid goalkeeper in the world don’t you know made 2 more mistakes and we draw but the real reason we aren’t going to win the league is because Fred is too limited for a top team... the stats say otherwise.
This is simply untrue. Do City only have one player in midfield with a killer pass then?
You can't put all your hopes on one player. That way teams just double up on them.
I'm not sure were your getting your stats from. Fred leads Manchester United in yellow cards this year with 8. With Wan Bissaka who in fairness is coming infield a lot to cover for Lindelof.
I like Fred, I just don't think he's naturally talented enough to be a starting 11 CDM, which is why he's always paired with McTominay. I would like to keep him as a bench player though.
Certainly not underrated. Not on here anyway. Never been a fan of his myself. Far too limited for me. If I ask myself what's he good at then I'm struggling tbf. The best I can come up with would be "he's a nuisance to the opposition on the pitch" Then again he's easily brushed aside.
That seems to be working well against Bruno
Anyway, as @Ali Dia mentioned, we already have 3 forwards, Bruno and recently fullbacks pushing high so it's perfectly fine to have combative/conservative midfield. To be honest I thought Fred has made some good passes and should've had a few assist already, and I have absolutely no problem with his lack of "numbers", because performances have been fine.
I don't understand the obsession with all players directly contributing to goals scored, certainly wrong approach to judge midfielders.
Absolutely agree. Tbh his energy levels are high and he works hard, but he over commits in his pressing and gets left behind all the time. I don't want to talk him down and he certainly can do a job but he is a grade or two below top level.
Agreed. I love Fred in our midfield. I love his energy and workrate.
Rashford basically agrees with you on this, saying that fans are obsessed with stats and numbers over actually watching games.That seems to be working well against Bruno
Anyway, as @Ali Dia mentioned, we already have 3 forwards, Bruno and recently fullbacks pushing high so it's perfectly fine to have combative/conservative midfield. To be honest I thought Fred has made some good passes and should've had a few assist already, and I have absolutely no problem with his lack of "numbers", because performances have been fine.
I don't understand the obsession with all players directly contributing to goals scored, certainly wrong approach to judge midfielders.
If he could learn to shoot/get more goals we would have a world class player on our hands.
His final ball is just lacking, but he is a really good player to have
His final ball is just lacking, but he is a really good player to have
Fred is not a CDM and really isn't very good in this respect.
He's not much of a passer either & he can't shoot outside the box to save his life.
Both Fred and McT could work well next to either a ball playing CDM or a defensive CDM. And I really like them both and would keep them in the squad to rotate but we definitely need a top player in that CDM role.
He's not much of a passer either & he can't shoot outside the box to save his life.
Both Fred and McT could work well next to either a ball playing CDM or a defensive CDM. And I really like them both and would keep them in the squad to rotate but we definitely need a top player in that CDM role.
Think the title of thread reads incorrectly, shouldn't it be overrated ? Not a patch on McTom. Offers no assist, never looks like scoring, never scores, never gives me any confidence when just outside the box. He's bang average for me. Sell him to improve.
McT literally played the game of his life versus Leeds, he’s yet to play aswell before or since & as far as ‘if we remove the Southampton game’, yea let’s do that. . . McTom scored a goal of 9 for this impressive midfield - Luke Shaw was more productive from LB in 45 minutes.
Don’t see what cherry picking 3 games is meant to show, especially when one is the biggest outlier possible; people wanted McT subbed versus Leicester if memory serves but what it does show is Bruno is one hell of a player.
They started versus PSG @ home [lost 3-1], started versus Citeh @ home [lost 2-0 but Pogba started that one so I know who the Caf will blame], both on the pitch against Arsenal @ OT [again Pogba started so obviously made the great duo look bad].
You can carry on blowing smoke up your own arse with your ‘people don’t watch the game’ trope; they do but aren’t cherry picking the games they produce in to judge them on.
It’s a midfield capable of drawing away to Leicester, beating Leeds at home & beating Southampton. . . actually talking about watching the game where was Fred stationed for most of the second half versus Southampton, for someone who actually watches the games surely you saw the tactical switch? Barely central from memory.
Pretty much agree with the second paragraph as far as the ideal balance in midfield.
I’ve gone into this in other threads but I think Bruno’s industry is wasted in the 10 position & think a more traditional 3 with a proper DM/pivot could work; as for their not being enough work rate to edge games against bigger teams the McFred axis has been pretty poor against the bigger sides this season as it’s rather one dimensional.
I’m at the point where I’d probably agree Pogba isn’t the answer but if he isn’t then Fred & McT certainly are not either; I’d exhaust the Pogba-Bruno midfield in more than a variant of the 4-2-3-1 before selling Pogba to rely on less talented footballers but that’s for another thread.
We need 2 new starting midfielders though imo to create the balance you’ve highlighted.
What a weird post, it's a midfield that dominated Leicester and should have won the game. Are you talking about just final results or creating chances?
For someone who talks about arse, you really talk out of your arse.
From stats thread I posted stats about midfield 3 of McT, Bruno and Fred, for some weird reason posted where we played 4 midfielders. It has nothing to do with Pogba.
It's nothing to do with cherry picking stats, it's true that people go by how the teams are lined up on paper when they comes with shit like "2 DMs". Looks like that part touched the nerve, must be one from the group.
Like somebody above has just said....write a list of things he's really good at and things he's not that great at.
His energy and how he covers every blade of grass is fantastic. After that I'm struggling to name one great quality he has. Passing average at best but quite poor for me, tackling is decent but nothing special, shooting is woeful...
He's an important player for us purely down to his energy levels. That's all he has.
His energy and how he covers every blade of grass is fantastic. After that I'm struggling to name one great quality he has. Passing average at best but quite poor for me, tackling is decent but nothing special, shooting is woeful...
He's an important player for us purely down to his energy levels. That's all he has.
Fred has won me over but this post is uncomfortably close to the truth. His passing is decent though.
By far his worst attribute is how easy it is to run through him.
I don't like to be too negative about United players, so I won't make a compilation. But it does seem to be ignored by a lot of people when discussing team tactics. I might mention it after the next game, though. It can be a bit worrying.
His game is all about being a being a gadfly - buzzing in players faces but also being easily swatted away.
I don't like to be too negative about United players, so I won't make a compilation. But it does seem to be ignored by a lot of people when discussing team tactics. I might mention it after the next game, though. It can be a bit worrying.
His game is all about being a being a gadfly - buzzing in players faces but also being easily swatted away.
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So we’re throwing insults; you tried to forward a post & were debunked then talk about hitting nerves. I responded on topic whilst you’re going from pillar to post.
You’ve highlighted a game we drew [shoulda, woulda, coulda] & a game we played the majority against 10 men along with the game of McTs life; I highlight 3 games we lost whilst the mighty McFred were present & it’s all bile from you. Silent on Fred’s positioning in the second half of the Southampton rout I see [see I’m not talking about 2 DMs as you’re trying to make out but the players themselves].
What is your issue? Cause you haven’t made one yet.
I don’t rate the duo as anything special, you’ve shown games they performed well & I’ve picked those they didn’t.
4 in midfield? 2 out of 3 lad. You may want to check the formation against PSG @ home - or are we cherry picking based on the ‘2 DMs’ theory you’re attempting to undermine. The point is/was when they play together it’s not some great midfield combination; you cherry pick 3 games but ignore the others because that don’t fit your narrow view; although again, how did we line up against PSG. . .
Time to move on surely.
Agreed— Most overrated player on the caf.
What a waste of post.
If the midfield of Fred-McTominay-Bruno is belittled saying "they are just good enough to draw with Leicester" then use the same logic and say "its good enough to win with the biggest scoreline in PL era.
That's the problem, "I don't like McTominay and Fred., so let me play down whatever good they do".
That's the problem, "I don't like McTominay and Fred., so let me play down whatever good they do".
And weird post continues. Good luck with your "I don't like Fred and let me shit on him" posts.
Only surprising part somehow Pogba is not made part of the post. At least one improvement.
Only surprising part somehow Pogba is not made part of the post. At least one improvement.
I just checked league stats on whoscored. He’s got 3 yellows in the league this season. So my point still stands about the tackling.
Tackling issue is, he loses too many tackles. I think that's because he is a busy bee, trying to tackle almost everytime. It shoudn't be a problem unless he does it in the box like he did vs Southampton when he was on his knees and still attempted the tackle, missed it and ended up as goal for them (offside goal).
He is good player, he has obvious problems like concentration issues which means he gives away ball cheaply and then his shooting or lack of. But he is very good ball carrier and also plays very good through passes on the ground whenever we counter attack.
I think a lot of people are comparing the output of our midfield to days gone by when we never played with a #10 and 2 strikers. At least one of our 2 midfielders would be expected to get forward and chip in goals and assists. I think Fred has been close to scoring and assisting lots of times but it’s not come off. That side of his game is lacking but I’ll say it again: with Bruno in the team as one of the midfielders we need a solid base to provide openings and win the ball back just as much as goals and assists. Bruno is distorting the stats because the team is built around him as it should be.
I don't think we ever had a CM with lot of goals and assists except Scholes. Keane, Carrick, Nicky Butt, Fletcher are the other CMs who played lot of games in last 20 years, except Scholes I don't think any other CM was known for their output.
Hopefully Fred starts scoring soon, he gets into such a good positions. At least McTominay is making good use of chances.
Btw saying all this, I feel Pogba should be part of our best team. What he offers, no one in the team is capable of that.
for me Pogba can only thrive if we don’t play Bruno. We are way too open and slow to move the ball forward and we aren’t strong enough defensively either. Since 17/18 we’ve been trying to “unlock” Pogba in the middle and we signed Fred so he wouldn’t have to do as much dirty work and he wouldnt have to cover for matic deeper. Here we are 3 years later and Fred is the only one still fitting in the team since Bruno arrived. I want to get the most out of Bruno and I’m happy to let Pogba leave as talented as he is. I can’t believe matic is still here. He’s been a problem for years. We simply need a player to knit it all together in the position and Fred does that perfectly.
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I agree with this.
Fernandes is putting up unreal numbers playing in this role, but I do wonder if the attack and team might be more balanced playing him as more of a midfielder in a 3 - if not with Pogba, then with Van de Beek next to him, pressing high and breaking into the box, and a sitting midfielder behind them. Can balance it out on the defensive side of things by having Wan-Bissaka take a more conservative position in possession, which is probably a better way to use him anyway.
Fred would be a decent option in this position too, as would McTominay.
Underrated/overrated... Lots of subjectivity which I will add to.
For a team not wanting to dominate games through possession, then Fred and McT are good (underrated?) players.
For a team wanting to dominate games through possession, then Fred and McT are not good (overrated?) players.
When we play against teams that want possession, then Fred and McT are very useful.
When we play against teams not wanting possession, Fred and McT are not that useful.
What type of football is most likely to yield long term success, as in EPL and ECL title possibility?
Playing like Manchester City or playing like Tottenham?
For a team not wanting to dominate games through possession, then Fred and McT are good (underrated?) players.
For a team wanting to dominate games through possession, then Fred and McT are not good (overrated?) players.
When we play against teams that want possession, then Fred and McT are very useful.
When we play against teams not wanting possession, Fred and McT are not that useful.
What type of football is most likely to yield long term success, as in EPL and ECL title possibility?
Playing like Manchester City or playing like Tottenham?
Quality control
Fred is a donkey. No more no less
He is a runner and thats it.
He is a runner and thats it.
Leave your shitty comments until the player threads are reopened.
He has been terrible tonight. given away about 8 balls already.
He has got be the worse passer of a ball i have ever seen at this level. He is just so unlike what you expect from a Brazilian footballer. His first touch is horrendous , is passing woeful, shooting terrible, and tackling poor
Other than that ok i guess
Other than that ok i guess