Fullbacks for the summer

I love the idea of Shaw and Dalot being our first choice full backs by the end of the season.
That is the only scenario where us not signing another full back will work for us. Valencia can't cross and young is right footed and unable to provide us real width down the left. This means that if we have to score 80 plus goals in the league and actually make a proper title challenge, Shaw and Dalot will have to have a very good/consistent season.

But considering the complicated history shaw has and the lack of experience dalot has, them winning over the positions by the end of the season is a long shot.

Imagine Shaw, Dalot and Martial all being starters for us in 2019-2020, that would be brilliant.
 
breakout67 said:
Actually it would. Young in the first half of 17/18 was one of the top fullbacks in the league. If he can play like that again he'll be a great fullback.
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So we don't need an LB we are strong in that position?
You could also argue that Valencia is one of the best RB in the league, so we don't need a new RB either?

Do we need to bring in any new players at all, or will this team win the League or CL..?
 
Shaw has shown nothing in years to suggest he's good enough for us anymore. I don't get the longing and baseless hope so many still have for him on here.
 
Valencia and Young are declining rapidly. If I'd played like they did in the cup final, I'd be embarrassed.

If Mourinho sticks with them it will be his undoing. Anybody who thinks it will be okay to stick with them another season is in for a shock.
 
Ikon said:
So we don't need an LB we are strong in that position?
You could also argue that Valencia is one of the best RB in the league, so we don't need a new RB either?
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We're not saying that.

Young fell away quite badly in the second half of the season, and at his age there's good reason to expect that form to likely continue. As such I'd definitely prefer to get a new leftback who is approaching their prime. However, ignoring the fact that Young was very good (not just 'fine') in the first half of the season is as bad as ignoring the fact that he wasn't good enough in the second half. It has to be acknowledged that both of those statements are true, and then we can make plans based on that.

As for Valencia, he hasn't been at that level for two or three seasons. He's good defensively (other than semi-regularly wrecking our offside trap), but going forward he provides very little. We need more coming from that side.
 
Ikon said:
So we don't need an LB we are strong in that position?
You could also argue that Valencia is one of the best RB in the league, so we don't need a new RB either?

Do we need to bring in any new players at all, or will this team win the League or CL..?
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I have no idea how anyone could argue Valencia is a top fullback. He hasn't been able to beat a man or put in consistently good crosses for years. He's also horrible at maintaining the defensive line, several times a season Valencia will be caught walking which will leave an attacker onside while the rest of the defensive line is ahead of him.

He hasn't hit 5 assists in a season since he was a winger. While Ashley Young has hit that mark every time he's given a good amount of games at fullback.

Young is a better fullback than Valencia and by a healthy margin. The only thing Valenica is good at is 1v1s in the defensive phase. Young is far better going forward, and has the same qualities as Valencia in the defensive phase (good at 1v1s, but lacking concentration regarding defensive organisation).
 
pocco said:
I'm wondering if Demetri Mitchell will be given a chance this season and that's why Jose doesn't want to address the LB position just yet.
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from what I've seen of Mitchell in the reserves he is great when the ball is on the deck, but his judgement of aerial balls was suspect. Not seen what he has done while out on loan, hopefully that will have been addressed. He has got pace going forward but his defensive positioning was sometimes awry. I'm sure Mourinho can sort out his defensive positioning, but the judgement calls will only come from experience I guess.
 
We have to sort the full back situation. Simple. City dumped all 4 last summer.

The league is cutthroat. At the end of the day, young was a great winger for us, I remember his performance when we trashed arsenal 8 - 2. But over time he's become obsolete on the wing and was converted to a left back by van gal to cover our shortage of wing backs, which van gal complained about.

All these years later, it's laughable to think that the square peg in the round hole is our first choice. Look at his performance in the cup final, had to cut back to cross every time so instead of the race between the center halves and incoming striker onto the incoming cross, the Chelsea defense were ready, facing up field and headed it away.

Forget the fact that he was good on the wing and has been a good servant and done a good job out of position etc etc, if he was always a left back he wouldn't even be in the team. Why did we sell butner? Or are selling Farman? They are/were good enough if young is.

I know everyone wants Sandro. I'd take him. Or Alternatively I'd like to see another young talent like Dalot signed and both put into the starting 11 and become a solid pair for a decade.

I seriously don't see how much worse they can do than an aging and out of position young and Valencia. We've been weak at full backs for over a decade. Post Neville/Irwin, apart from Evra, who has been incredible for us there? I know Heinze brown and Sylvestre were good there but more part of the flat back 4 than wing backs. When you look at Liverpool Tottenham and city they have strong combos of clubs/ta - Robertson, walker - mendy, tripper - rose. If we want to compete we have to upgrade, we are so behind competitors.

I'd like to see Mitchell tuanzabe, Tfm etc given a go too. Ho do we know how good they'll be unless we give them a try? Would rashford have been released from the academy if he hadn't had that one chance through a ridiculous injury crisis?

Other areas of my thinking is has mourinho been trying to kick shaw up the arse? Could he be on a summer fitness rampage etc? Or is his time up?

I'd personally like to see him loaned to another pl club for a season before we give him up for good, to see if he is for the bin or whether he can recapture that form that made us sign him.

Also we have the option of playing blind at left back if we keep him but don't see it as he is more a defender for a flat back 4?
And the other thing is, we have lots of fans on here saying we 100% have to buy proven talent and doubting the Dalot signing etc, but where would we be now if we'd taken that attitude at the point where the nevilles, scholes, butt and beckham and slightly before that giggs were unproven?
 
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Jezpeza said:
I'd personally like to see him loaned to another pl club for a season before we give him up for good, to see if he is for the bin or whether he can recapture that form that made us sign him.
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Shaw has had 4yrs to prove himself and under different managers has failed to impress.
Why would you want to give such a player a chance. It makes no sense.
Shaw has no ambition and is doing the bare minimum. This is not the kind of player who does well at any top club.
Southampton is his correct level - ie. a club near the bottom of the league.

Jezpeza said:
And the other thing is, we have lots of fans on here saying we 100% have to buy proven talent and doubting the Dalot signing etc, but where would we be now if we'd taken that attitude at the point where the nevilles, scholes, butt and beckham and slightly before that giggs were unproven?
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You are referring to a different era. Since we brought through those youngsters, all at the same time, it's been decades and no team has ever been able to recreate that sort of scenario (ie. bring through youngsters who form the core of your team, who go onto win everything). Leeds tried it way back when, bringing in youngsters and playing them in their first team. They did well, but ultimately, it all went pear shaped for them.
If we were reigning league champs, cruising to titles, in the 90s, sure, we could try using youngsters, but in 2018, if you make heavy use of youngsters, eventually they'll get torn to shreds. Did you not watch the Ajax vs MUFC EL Final? Those youngsters stood no chance. It was literally men against boys.
 
At the age of 18 years and 10 months, Trent Alexander-Arnold had 162' of PL experience entering the 2017/2018 season. He didn't get ripped to shreds despite that lack of experience. At the age of 19 years and 5 months, Diogo Dalot has 450' of Liga NOS experience and 90' of Champions League experience entering the 2018/2019 season. There is no logical reason to think Dalot would not enjoy the same, or greater, success next season at the same position as Alexander-Arnold did last season.
 
sunama said:
Shaw has had 4yrs to prove himself and under different managers has failed to impress.
Why would you want to give such a player a chance. It makes no sense.
Shaw has no ambition and is doing the bare minimum. This is not the kind of player who does well at any top club.
Southampton is his correct level - ie. a club near the bottom of the league.



You are referring to a different era. Since we brought through those youngsters, all at the same time, it's been decades and no team has ever been able to recreate that sort of scenario (ie. bring through youngsters who form the core of your team, who go onto win everything). Leeds tried it way back when, bringing in youngsters and playing them in their first team. They did well, but ultimately, it all went pear shaped for them.
If we were reigning league champs, cruising to titles, in the 90s, sure, we could try using youngsters, but in 2018, if you make heavy use of youngsters, eventually they'll get torn to shreds. Did you not watch the Ajax vs MUFC EL Final? Those youngsters stood no chance. It was literally men against boys.
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I mainly agree about shaw. He did have a horrific injury though in the middle of that and there might be a decent player in there somewhere. Also he cost 30 mil it's a wasted investment. That's why I'm saying he gets another chance but not at our expense, hence farming him out on loan, if he flounders fine we sell him at least he's off the wage bill and he might actually get put in the shop window for some mid table teams. Everyone's acting like we can just sell him for a big wad of cash. No ones going to buy him for very much at the moment.

And I wasn't saying put half the youth team in the first 11. I'm just saying youth has to have a chance. As I said, rashford wouldn't have had a chance if not for injuries. What if Spurs didn't give Kane a run of games? De brunye was blocked from the Chelsea team by Oscar and mata. Where are they all
Now a few years later? Who would you pick in your squad? Are average 15 - 30 million imports like darmian, blind, rojo etc etc actually noticeably better than mctominay, Tfm, tuanzabe etc? Enough to merit a place above them in the squad?

Obviously there are Cameron borthwick jack sons as well who aren't cut out. But Ferguson had players like Ronnie wallwork, Quentin fortune, Luke Chadwick, David bellion, etc etc. At least they all got a few games before being deemed not good enough. And what did they cost? Seems nowadays we fill our squad with average or poor signings for the sake of signing players and they don't have the will to play for anything but their paycheque. Much rather see someone who spent a decade in our youth teams given a crack. At least they'll try. Half our starting 11 didn't seem to try in the fa cup final.
 
We may not have mounted a title challenge, barely lifted a finger in the CL after yearning to be back in the big leagues, and fluffed our lines in the Cup final.

But we came 2nd. This is the best United we've had since SAF retired, by quite a margin, and we're still miles away from being 'really good'. The last thing we can afford to do now, after taking so long to get back to the top 2, is to stagnate or go backwards.

Starting 2018/19 with two 33yr old wingers as Full-backs again, would be suicidal. We are not progressing like that, not in the slightest.
 
yo@Kirk said:
At the age of 18 years and 10 months, Trent Alexander-Arnold had 162' of PL experience entering the 2017/2018 season. He didn't get ripped to shreds despite that lack of experience. At the age of 19 years and 5 months, Diogo Dalot has 450' of Liga NOS experience and 90' of Champions League experience entering the 2018/2019 season. There is no logical reason to think Dalot would not enjoy the same, or greater, success next season at the same position as Alexander-Arnold did last season.
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Mourinho

...but I hope you are right and Mou sits his captain on the bench to play Dalot in the 1st eleven.
 
yo@Kirk said:
At the age of 18 years and 10 months, Trent Alexander-Arnold had 162' of PL experience entering the 2017/2018 season. He didn't get ripped to shreds despite that lack of experience. At the age of 19 years and 5 months, Diogo Dalot has 450' of Liga NOS experience and 90' of Champions League experience entering the 2018/2019 season. There is no logical reason to think Dalot would not enjoy the same, or greater, success next season at the same position as Alexander-Arnold did last season.
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Don't think you're comparing like for like here.

Dalot will be living in a foreign country for the first time next season, have to learn a new language I assume.

Taa was born in Liverpool and lived there all his life.

These might not seem like big facrors to you but they can be.
 
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Lucas Hood!! said:
Don't think you're comparing like for like here.

Dalot will be living in a foreign country for the first time next season, have to learn a new language I assume.

Taa was born in Liverpool and lived there all his life.

These might not seem like big facrors to you but they can be.
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Dalot speaks very good English and his sister lives in London. He's a mature, intelligent, self sufficient young man perfectly capable of providing his basic needs like food, clothing, shelter, and transportation. You don't think Mourinho and Ribalta did their due diligence in scouting this player?
 
If we just signed decent attacking left and right backs that would be enough for me. A quality centre back as well and we're challenging for title.

If Jose doesn't do these things, the season will be a rerun of last year.
 
There are decent LB options like Rose, Ghoulam, Kurzawa, Bernat, Bertrand, Hector, Tierney, Rodriguez, Guerreiro, etc... But we need top and experienced left back like Sandro.

We didn't sign a world class RB to replace Valencia, so it would be better Sandro than another young LB. If not, we could end up with Valencia and Young as our fullbacks next season.
 
If we don't get a LB in the summer then it it will be another frustrating season.

I just get the impression our summer budget for transfers this summer is restricted and that we are likely to utilise most of our budget on a marquee signing as such as on Bale and therefore we will patch up our problem areas.

Recipe for disaster?
 
Who would you prefer between Tierney and Sessegnon?
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
We may not have mounted a title challenge, barely lifted a finger in the CL after yearning to be back in the big leagues, and fluffed our lines in the Cup final.

But we came 2nd. This is the best United we've had since SAF retired, by quite a margin, and we're still miles away from being 'really good'. The last thing we can afford to do now, after taking so long to get back to the top 2, is to stagnate or go backwards.

Starting 2018/19 with two 33yr old wingers as Full-backs again, would be suicidal. We are not progressing like that, not in the slightest.
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Pretty much this. We are lacking quality in both full-back positions and it's baffling we aren't upgrading on both Valencia and Young. Dalot may prove a shrewd deal in the long run but we need to compete now and without bringing in some good full-back's it'll probably be more of the same next season.
 
If we can't sign Sandro, who do you consider is the best left back of the following:
Phillip Max, Tierney, Sessegnon or Telles?
 
If he can get fit is he worth giving him 1 more season to prove himself. Plus he will save us £40m plus enabling us to concentrate on other areas Of the team.

 
Jose has decided he doesn't rate Luke Shaw, I don't think there is anything he could do to change that
 
Even when he does get a run of games and performs well he still comes in for criticism and ends up out of the side so I can't see this ending very well.

I'd still back Shaw to come good if we were to play him every week, but Mourinho isn't interested in doing so. Young will enter season first choice as that's who Mourinho trusts - and rates very highly.
 
Jezpeza said:
I mainly agree about shaw. He did have a horrific injury though in the middle of that and there might be a decent player in there somewhere. Also he cost 30 mil it's a wasted investment. That's why I'm saying he gets another chance but not at our expense, hence farming him out on loan, if he flounders fine we sell him at least he's off the wage bill and he might actually get put in the shop window for some mid table teams. Everyone's acting like we can just sell him for a big wad of cash. No ones going to buy him for very much at the moment.

And I wasn't saying put half the youth team in the first 11. I'm just saying youth has to have a chance. As I said, rashford wouldn't have had a chance if not for injuries. What if Spurs didn't give Kane a run of games? De brunye was blocked from the Chelsea team by Oscar and mata. Where are they all
Now a few years later? Who would you pick in your squad? Are average 15 - 30 million imports like darmian, blind, rojo etc etc actually noticeably better than mctominay, Tfm, tuanzabe etc? Enough to merit a place above them in the squad?

Obviously there are Cameron borthwick jack sons as well who aren't cut out. But Ferguson had players like Ronnie wallwork, Quentin fortune, Luke Chadwick, David bellion, etc etc. At least they all got a few games before being deemed not good enough. And what did they cost? Seems nowadays we fill our squad with average or poor signings for the sake of signing players and they don't have the will to play for anything but their paycheque. Much rather see someone who spent a decade in our youth teams given a crack. At least they'll try. Half our starting 11 didn't seem to try in the fa cup final.
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Grrrrr don’t be dissing the Quinton!
 
Nate Dogg said:
If he can get fit is he worth giving him 1 more season to prove himself. Plus he will save us £40m plus enabling us to concentrate on other areas Of the team.

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God loves a trier. Unfortunately Jose doesn’t. At least he’ll be fitter to get on his bike
 
Someone has let himself go....doesn't bode well for Shaw and I am more convinced we need a LB.

 
Saw that picture this morning, he's a proper pudding isn't he :lol:
Demetri Mitchell should take his squad place this summer, I'd genuinely terminate his contract if nobody wanted him, the guy is a joke.
 
Every season we see reports of Luke Shaw going the extra mile to become fitter, every year his arse gets bigger and shirts get tighter.

He does remind me a bit of Rooney who clearly didn't have the conditioning of a footballer, more like your average gym goer.
 
Weren't there reports that he started training early because he wants to be in good shape when pre season starts?
That's going well...
 
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