Agree with this.
Gattuso vs Fletcher
- Thread starter greekscavenger1
- Start date
Agree with this.
Darren Fletcher of course.
He is younger and developing into a more well rounded player than Gattuso; who is waning in his influence. In his prime Gattuso was amongst the best in his position and that cant be forgotten. But its Fletcher's time to shine now.
He is younger and developing into a more well rounded player than Gattuso; who is waning in his influence. In his prime Gattuso was amongst the best in his position and that cant be forgotten. But its Fletcher's time to shine now.
Also unsettling seeing him in all those incredibly bent underwear ads plastered all over Germany.
Don't think we'd have to worry about this with Fletcher.
because hes to pale?
seriously though this picture is disturbing
Fletcher
In their prime... well, it's hard to tell if this is Fletchers prime or if there's more to come... Gattuso in his prime is one of the greatest holding midfielders of all-time.
Right now though, there's no competition, Fletcher
Right now though, there's no competition, Fletcher
Gattuso didnt hold. He provided width and shape down the right hand side when Milan had the ball. When they didnt have the ball he had a bit more license to put his challenges in more towards the central areas of the pitch.
Fletcher has clearly eclipsed him as a better player
He held. Milan played with 2 holding players on either side of a deep lying playmaker.
Besides Italy won the world cup with him alongside Pirlo in a pure 4-4-2.
Gattusso in his prime was the best defensive midfielder there was. Fletcher is still to reach that level.
That CL tie against Milan (think it was 2005?); where we lost both legs 0-1; was Gattuso at his freaking best. Bossed our midfield out of the champions leage
That CL tie against Milan (think it was 2005?); where we lost both legs 0-1; was Gattuso at his freaking best. Bossed our midfield out of the champions leage
I agree with the sentiment, but his performance against us in the away leg of the semi in 2007 was even better IMHO...
Fletcher now. He's becoming a brilliant CM, and he has a solid temperament. The only thing I think he lacks is the confidence that a regular midfield partnership would give him; even so his self-belief is increasing.
Gattuso's manic moments would put me off, in his prime or not.
Gattuso's manic moments would put me off, in his prime or not.
Fletcher.
He was arguably better than Cannavaro in the tournament who won the awards
Indeed. General Gattuso was immense in that tournament.
See his tagline AS
Gattusso at his best was one of the best players in the world in his role. Comparing him with Fletch is silly - it's like comparing Buffon and Foster.
Gattuso is no longer at his best and Fletcher is, Fletcher is clearly the better player atm and by some distance in my mind. Of course Gattuso has done much more in his career but merit doesnt make up for shit after shit performance.
He held and you know it
So he was a holding right midfielder? He covered up the space on the right hand side in the formation because thats where he played. He did lots of donkey work defensively, but he got forward to support the attack when he needed to because that was his responsibility from playing on the right, else Milan would have been lopsided in attack. When you watched him play he got forward plenty of times, always behind the ball, but he linked up with his fullback and supported play. He wasnt holding in and around the half way line all the time like a holding midfielder - There is less need for that when Pirlo is already doing it.
He did much the same job as Davids did on the left when he was at his best. Lots of competative challenges in midfield, but when his team was attacking he had a responsibility to keep the team shape and be an option of support on the left, else there's a gaping hole in the formation. Gattuso did that job on the right hand side instead.
Ambrosini is box to box. What is it with you and having to label each midfielder either an attacking midfielder, a defensive midfielder or a holding midfielder? He does the opposite of a holding midfielder because he goes up and down the pitch. There's also Seedorf which you've failed to mention and he is another player who competed for the ball, but got forward too. A bit like Park. He played on the opposite side to Gattuso doing a similar but slightly more advanced job.
At last, some sense.
Is the correct answer
So what? He had the exact same role as Gattuso had on the opposite flank.
To work man to protect the central playmaker, help out him and the defence defensively, while supplying him with constant ball to wreck havoc from deep.
What's with you not knowing the difference between positions, attributes and roles on a football pitch?
A holding midfielder IS a defensive midfielder. Having the abilty to operate between both boxes doesn't change the role the player plays. You must be amongst the many fooled by Makele into thinking that being stationed in front of the back 4 is the only way the role is played. Utter Bullshit.
Below was Milan's preferred formation :
-------------Keeper------------
-------------Back four----------
-----Gattuso---Pirlo-----Ambrosini---
-------- ---Kaka----Seedorf--------
-------------Lone striker-----------
Seedorf never played a similar role one the opposite side of Gattuso at any point in time. That was Ambrosini's job.
So you agree Ambrosini went box to box, then say he had the same role as Gattuso on the other side ? You too must agree that Gattuso didnt hold then as you just said he went up and down the pitch like Ambrosini
What's with you not knowing the difference between positions and roles on a football pitch?
A holding midfielder IS a defensive midfielder. Having the abilty to operate between both boxes doesn't change the role the play plays.
A holding midfielder will, shock, horror, hold. Players who spend 90 minutes going backwards and forwards past the half way line arent holding. If they were holding they'd be restricted to sticking around just in front of the half way line while the rest of the midfield moves forward. Calling players who are going from one box to the other, "holding" midfielders is about as incorrect as you could achieve.
They never lined up anywhere near as straight as that. Seedorf deeper than Kaka, and much more towards the left. A bit more advanced of Gattuso as I said before. Ambrosini more central and doing the vast majority of his work next to Pirlo instead of the left side of midfield.
Unlike you I'm fully aware that the abilty to operate between both boxes doesn't stop a player being a holding or defensive midfielder.So you agree Ambrosini went box to box, then say he had the same role as Gattuso on the other side ? You too must agree that Gattuso didnt hold then as you just said he went up and down the pitch like Ambrosini
Bullshit. Only idiots like who who think Makelele, a fecking 3rd center back, is the embodiment of the role believe such shit. Only people who can't grasp the going from box to box is just a fecking player attribute believe such shit.
Frank Rijkaard the true embodiment of the holding/ defensive midfielder role was nothing like you described. He was every where like Keane. A dominant force in the entire center of the pack the stretched between both boxes.
At this rate you will soon say Milan played 4-4-2 with Kaka as a strikerSo chief, basically to you a "holding" midfielder is a box to box midfielder? Someone who actually does a good amount of everything in midfield, except holding their position.
Hell no!
To me a holding midfielder is a defensive midfielder and always has been. The player who takes care of defensive duties and wining the ball every where in the midfield. Not just in front of his back 4. To do that for an attack minded team a player has to be able top operate in between both boxes.
As for box to box it is nothing but an attribute. FFS even Rooney is box to box. Is he a midfielder to you?
Gattuso at his best was superb, a driving force like no other with natural aggression and will like few others.
Fletcher is a better footballer than Rino, no doubt in my mind about that but Gattuso had that extra something...
Fletcher is a better footballer than Rino, no doubt in my mind about that but Gattuso had that extra something...
Box to box isnt a role in a team, obviously. Its just a term to describe where a player tends to be found when he's on the pitch. Some players go up and down the pitch as thats what comes naturally to them. Rooney is definately one of those. He's not one of your "holding strikers"
If a "holding" midfielder is a "defensive" midfielder, why dont you just say "defensive" midfielder? A lot of people consider them to be slightly different, hence having a different name so you can specify which you mean.
To you a 'defensive midfielder' is a combative midfielder, I see. And speaking about the likes of Gattuso, clearly you dont feel a defensive midfielder needs to be playing right in the center of the park as he played inside right at best.
Would you consider Nicky Butt a defensive midfielder for example? He's one of the ones people used to use often as an example of a holding midfielder, because most of the time he held his position and let others advance beyond him. The same as Carrick in his first season here, by and large he did the same thing. I'd never refer to him as a defensive midfielder though as a lot of his characteristics are quite the opposite of a player I'd consider for the "defensive midfield" position.
In my opinion 'Defensive midfielders' tend to be more athletic and hard in a tackle. Also they tend to play a bit deeper than someone I'd consider a 'holding midfielder' like Carrick season 1. And I'd expect a "holding midfielder" to be more adept at playing a passing game, whereas most of the best defensive midfielders will tend to keep things as simple as possible, as it isnt their strong point and neither are they often in the right areas to try more ambitious passes.
Redcafe posters in missing the point shocker. "Who would you want now?" was the question.
.... He's not one of your "holding strikers"
WTF is a "holding striker" ?They don't have to. It' jusat different way of saying the same thing. Like forward or striker. Winger or wide man
That's there own problem then. For the role is one and the same. Claiming other wise is like saying forward are different from strikers.
Clearly. A defensive midfielder is defined by his job. He is a player who's exclusive task is to do the defensive and ball winning job in midfield. In an area which includes the area between both boxes and either flank. Gattuso did that. As did Ambrosini in the other side of Pirlo. Allowing Pirlo to operate like a quarter back for Milan.
Yes. Butt used to venture much further than just in front of his 18 yard box to win back the ball or disrupt opponents play. Plus used to participate in using the ball right in the center of the pitch. Same goes for someone like Mascherano.
A person like Makelele is just 3rd center back is wrongly classed with them.
A Makelele is no different from playing a Campo or King in front of a back 4.
He is part and parcel of the defence and hardly ever reaches near the center line. Unless his team have switched to total gungho football.
Fair enough. That is what you believe the role to be. But it has never ever been like that. The notion that a defensive midfielder or holding player only partols the area in front of their back four, does naught but defend whilst contributing very little to proper midfield play, making simple passes mostly/only is a fallacy.
A player can't be called a midfielder and do that. Because that is the realm of center backs and sweepers.
That is why it isn't a coincidence that player like Redondo, Guardiola, Cocu, Davids, Toure, Van Bommel, Busquets, Frings, Oliseh to name just a few have very little in common with a Makalele as players. None of them spent time making mostly simple passes and contributing next to nothing in attack.
Gattuso at his best was immense, like a solid wall between midfield and defense. Remember how when he went off at Old Trafford we went onto win 3-2? Then remember how at the San Siro he remained on the field and we got stuffed. It remains to be seen whether Fletchers peak performance is the same as Gattuso, I think it will be, or very near it. Gattuso now however seems to be past it and anyone who currently prefers the General over Fletch is abit dim, to put it lightly.
It's amazing isn't it?
Why stop at one silly thread.....
Who would you want now - Nani or Beckham ?
Who would you want now - Evans or Canavaro ?
Who would you want now - Fletcher or Makalele ?
Catftards starting pointless threads shocker.
Gattuso is only 31 and Fletcher is 25. 6 Years difference. Still comparable.
Evans is 21 and Cannavaro is 35. Thats 14 years difference. You can't compare.
Nani is 22 and Beckham is 34. 12 years. Incomparable.
Fletcher is 25 and Makalele is 36. 11 years. Incomparable.
Evans is 21 and Cannavaro is 35. Thats 14 years difference. You can't compare.
Nani is 22 and Beckham is 34. 12 years. Incomparable.
Fletcher is 25 and Makalele is 36. 11 years. Incomparable.