Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay

[Stacks]

Criticising the concept of religion (as well as some of the writing within relevant holy books) isn’t bigotry for feck sake.

It shouldn't be but in today's soft society it can be seen as so. happens all the time and people get labelled as Islamophobes.

 

[DiceRoller]

Whereas previously



It seems you have changed your call out. Still it's pleasing to see that you have backed off from the idea that Ireland is less anti-gay than the UK. One of your own countrymen has also pointed this out.

What are you even talking about. Our sport in Ireland (bar Bohemians vs Shamrock Rovers) is civilized and doesn’t require fans to be separated or away fans to wait till a ground clears etc.
That whole attitude and crowd feeds on intolerance, hence the reason the UK has never had an openly gay footballer despite the multiple tiers of professional football.

Ireland was the first country to approve same sex marriage by popular vote and is a pretty tolerant, accepting country. Make of it that what you will compared to the UK.

 

[royce987]

Considering how homophobic slurs like rentboys and Renties are commonly used by football fans (including on this forum), it is hardly surprising that gay footballers don't want to come out.

 

[blue blue]

What are you even talking about. Our sport in Ireland (bar Bohemians vs Shamrock Rovers) is civilized and doesn’t require fans to be separated or away fans to wait till a ground clears etc.
That whole attitude and crowd feeds on intolerance, hence the reason the UK has never had an openly gay footballer despite the multiple tiers of professional football.

Ireland was the first country to approve same sex marriage by popular vote and is a pretty tolerant, accepting country. Make of it that what you will compared to the UK.

You have made this conversation about how the UK and Irish governments and people react to homosexuality. Its not about that. You tried to make a point about how the Irish were more tolerant and quite frankly you are wrong. Same sex sexual activity was decriminalised in the UK in 1967 although it was always legal for women. The Irish didn't do the same for another 26 years. That's a very big difference.

You just seem to be intent on bashing the UK with stuff you know nothing of, instead of discussing how football can become more inclusive.

 

[DiceRoller]

You have made this conversation about how the UK and Irish governments and people react to homosexuality. Its not about that. You tried to make a point about how the Irish were more tolerant and quite frankly you are wrong. Same sex sexual activity was decriminalised in the UK in 1967 although it was always legal for women. The Irish didn't do the same for another 26 years. That's a very big difference.

You just seem to be intent on bashing the UK with stuff you know nothing of, instead of discussing how football can become more inclusive.

Yes, because of the stronghold of the Catholic Church.

I’ll reduce this to one thing since you’re talking about all sorts of stuff.
In the UK there has never been an openly gay footballer across the multitude of professional divisions.

Up to you what you think this says about the culture of the country/sport in question.

 

[Snow]

It's not a UK problem per ce, it's a football problem, a team sports problem. If you find an openly gay footballer anywhere it's the exception, not the norm. You won't find them in basketball either, the NFL, hockey, handball, wherever. Still too much stigma and homophobia for people to risk their short, lucrative careers over.

 

[blue blue]

It's not a UK problem per ce, it's a football problem, a team sports problem. If you find an openly gay footballer anywhere it's the exception, not the norm. You won't find them in basketball either, the NFL, hockey, handball, wherever. Still too much stigma and homophobia for people to risk their short, lucrative careers over.

I agree and its a problem. Last week I suggested a charity LGBT football match be held at Wembley Stadium and wanted to get views on what people thought. I didn't get any response. I think this just about sums up how people view this issue in football. They ignore it hope it will go away. I can't see attitudes changing any time soon and maybe it's time to think of how this can be addressed. A slow start might be introducing a LGBT form of entertainment at half time. What about an openly gay entertainer doing a turn at half time? We have to start somewhere.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

A slow start might be introducing a LGBT form of entertainment at half time. What about an openly gay entertainer doing a turn at half time? We have to start somewhere.

This is a terrible idea. These people are not circus attractions.

 

[norm87cro]

Personally I couldn't even comprehend if one of our croatian silver medal winners happend to be gay and came out. His life would change for sure. I don't think it would be much different for an english player as well. And I always felt it was more down to the "macho drinking" (especially in England) subculture rather than religion that more people didn't come out. After you come out you just can't be one of the lads anymore (not saying its ok just a current fact). Would not be suprised if Ronaldo came out after his playing career aldo if he happened to be gay his motives would have definetly been religious because of his strict chatolic background

 

[blue blue]

This is a terrible idea. These people are not circus attractions.

You are the one mentioning circus attractions. The thought never crossed my mind. When I think of the entertainers that have performed at the Super Bowl interval it seems perfectly normal. Diana Ross singing "I'm coming out" for goodness sake. Why not have someone like Julian Clary giving the crowd as good as he gets?
What would you suggest? Seriously. Or are you just going to keep putting it in the too difficult box?

 

[Welby5]

It shouldn't be but in today's soft society it can be seen as so. happens all the time and people get labelled as Islamophobes.

I was labelled as homophobic for simply saying i do not enjoy watching gay love scenes in movies or on tv. Never said and wouldn't say there shouldn't be gay characters and love scenes. Not enough to have said i fully support equality etc etc etc. No, in order to not be homophobic i now have to want to see gay sex and enjoy wtching it.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Not every person who's religious is homophobic. Let's not turn an already disgusting thread worse. People are allowed to follow whatever religion they want, it's not big and clever to call it a fairytale it's just offensive.

 

[MackRobinson]

I agree and its a problem. Last week I suggested a charity LGBT football match be held at Wembley Stadium and wanted to get views on what people thought. I didn't get any response. I think this just about sums up how people view this issue in football. They ignore it hope it will go away. I can't see attitudes changing any time soon and maybe it's time to think of how this can be addressed. A slow start might be introducing a LGBT form of entertainment at half time. What about an openly gay entertainer doing a turn at half time? We have to start somewhere.

Ridiculous idea. This is the definition of forcing an issue down down one's throat. Sports leagues are better off having more punitive punishments for homophobic actions than requiring a halftime performer to be LGBT.

 

[Welby5]

Not every person who's religious is homophobic. Let's not turn an already disgusting thread worse. People are allowed to follow whatever religion they want, it's not big and clever to call it a fairytale it's just offensive.

I don't think people are intending to offend religous people by calling them fairytales. It's just an honest/blunt way of them discribing the books. To them, that is what they are and in a liberal society like ours they should be allowed to say these kinds of things without being jumped on. Religous peoples faith should be strong enough for them not to care what the non believers say or think about religion.

 

[Nr.7]

I don’t see an issue if a player is gay or not. I don’t see how that matters.
Also, we would never have to come out as heterosexuals at our job, so lets treat everyone equal. It’s none of our business.

People are allowed to follow whatever religion they want, it's not big and clever to call it a fairytale it's just offensive.

They are, but people are also allowed to say it’s a fairytale. It’s just my opinion on religion, the offensive part is yours.
I can’t influence what about my opinion you might find offensive.
I can believe Phil Jones is the best cb in the league, so no one should be allowed to say that’s a silly statement/fairytale?
Why would religion be any different?

 

[Tomuś]

Not every person who's religious is homophobic. Let's not turn an already disgusting thread worse. People are allowed to follow whatever religion they want, it's not big and clever to call it a fairytale it's just offensive.

I think it's 'cool', 'open-minded' and 'intellectual' according to those who use that. Which surely makes them feel well so what can you do. Speaking about me I've never been told by anyone to believe in God but has actually been instructed otherwise by some sad people. Tolerance? Is it feck. Still remember one of the exams at the university where the professor told me I wouldn't get a higher mark than just passing because she could see the cross on my neck. Something along the lines 'I'm not as arrogant as to believe there could be something above me.' Obviously being such a great mind she couldn't see the utter irony in her words.

Quiet intolerance (ridiculing, remarks, offensive language) or a violent one (see the staggering numbers on anti-Christian persecution throughout the world) towards religious people is horrifying these days and it's easily excused by 'backward views' etc. A quick google search suggests there are 5.35 billion people who believe in some God. If one thinks all of them hate/discriminate/offend/bully and whatnot gays then there isn't much to add.

 

[MackRobinson]

I don’t see an issue if a player is gay or not. I don’t see how that matters.
Also, we would never have to come out as heterosexuals at our job, so lets treat everyone equal. It’s none of our business.



They are, but people are also allowed to say it’s a fairytale. It’s just my opinion on religion, the offensive part is yours.
I can’t influence what about my opinion you might find offensive.
I can believe Phil Jones is the best cb in the league, so no one should be allowed to say that’s a silly statement/fairytale?
Why would religion be any different?

If you can call religion a fairytale then you should be able to say you find homosexuality disgusting. In reality, you shouldn't say either. Both are purposely incendiary statements.

 

[blue blue]

Ridiculous idea. This is the definition of forcing an issue down down one's throat. Sports leagues are better off having more punitive punishments for homophobic actions than requiring a halftime performer to be LGBT.

No imagination. Punishments on their own will do nothing to stop this type of behaviour. It is neither ridiculous or ramming it down anybody's throat. Why are you so offended by a perfectly reasonable suggestion? Please explain why having a LGBT performer at a football match is ridiculous. Are you saying Elton john has no place in entertaining a Wembley crowd?

 

[HTG]

It takes a very special mind, for someone to waltz into a thread about LGBTQ people in sports and complain about discrimination towards christians.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I don't think people are intending to offend religous people by calling them fairytales. It's just an honest/blunt way of them discribing the books. To them, that is what they are and in a liberal society like ours they should be allowed to say these kinds of things without being jumped on. Religous peoples faith should be strong enough for them not to care what the non believers say or think about religion.

What bollocks. Calling something that one believes in fairytale, is quite obviously offensive.

 

[SalfordRed18]

It takes a very special mind, for someone to waltz into a thread about LGBTQ people in sports and complain about discrimination towards christians.

I suggest you read the thread back then and get down off your high horse.

 

[Nick7]

Is it offensive to say the Catholic Church as a religion has over the years had many homophobic practices and "rules"?

 

[Nr.7]

What bollocks. Calling something that one believes in fairytale, is quite obviously offensive.

So, I can believe Phil Jones is the best cb in history and calling my belief delusional is offensive?

 

[HTG]

I suggest you read the thread back then and get down off your high horse.

I did, all of it. It’s still incredible ridiculous and lacking any sense of self awareness and what discrimination actually is.
Poor, poor christians. So very sad.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Is it offensive to say the Catholic Church as a religion has over the years had many homophobic practices and "rules"?

I wouldn't say that's offensive, no. Think if you argued any different you'd be burying your head under the sand.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I did, all of it. It’s still incredible ridiculous and lacking any sense of self awareness and what discrimination actually is.
Poor, poor christians. So very sad.

Clearly didn't.

Don't know where you've got "waltz into the thread" from but I suggest you check your facts next time.

 

[Nick7]

I wouldn't say that's offensive, no. Think if you argued any different you'd be burying your head under the sand.

That's usually the reason people will say stuff like that about Christians. I'm not going to say every Christian church has similar views, but the vast majority of them do. People just say Christians as shorthand in that case. I'm sure people saying it are aware not every single Christian is a gay hating monster, but they get tarred with the same brush as the ones that are and the institutions that have fostered those beliefs.

 

[MUFC OK]

What exactly is the problem with players not coming out? This debate will rage on and on about what can be done but asides from stamping out homophobia, just like any other form of discrimination I don't see a solution. Sexuality need not be brought into football, similarly to religion or politics. I don't feel like anyone is neglecting the issue, and I imagine the next openly gay player will garner enormous support, with the exception of very few idiots and twitter trolls.

 

[SalfordRed18]

So, I can believe Phil Jones is the best cb in history and calling my belief delusional is offensive?

You're a fool.

 

[MackRobinson]

No imagination. Punishments on their own will do nothing to stop this type of behaviour. It is neither ridiculous or ramming it down anybody's throat. Why are you so offended by a perfectly reasonable suggestion? Please explain why having a LGBT performer at a football match is ridiculous. Are you saying Elton john has no place in entertaining a Wembley crowd?

Neither will forcing a certain type of entertainment down someone's throat. I'm not offended by your suggestion but it's not reasonable to mandate it as a form of entertainment. Punitive punishments can curb LGBT discrimination the same way it's been done with gender and racial discrimination. The problem is the sports governing bodies are toothless and generally give a slap on the wrist to LGBT and racial discrimination. Not sure why you think having a LGBT halftime show will change anything and punishing those who discriminate won't. That's like saying Zenit should have all-black halftime show to change the hearts of their ultras. It's absurd.

 

[Nr.7]

You're a fool.

Well, that is actually offensive and is so ironic coming form a person who started this by saying you shouldn’t be allowed to offend.

You could have adressed my analogy in a different way, by a counter-argument instead of chosing to insult me.

 

[HTG]

Well, that is actually offensive and is so ironic coming form a person who started this by saying you shouldn’t be allowed to offend.

You could have adressed my analogy in a different way, by a counter-argument instead of chosing to insult me.

You’re talking to someone who’s crying about discrimination against christians in a thread about homophobia. That’s a lost cause, just give up.

 

[SalfordRed18]

That's usually the reason people will say stuff like that about Christians. I'm not going to say every Christian church has similar views, but the vast majority of them do. People just say Christians as shorthand in that case. I'm sure people saying it are aware not every single Christian is a gay hating monster, but they get tarred with the same brush as the ones that are and the institutions that have fostered those beliefs.

It's ridiculous, though.

Sure every domination is the same in sense that have essentially the same beliefs. However, in terms of what is right and wrong, what's allowed and isn't allowed, they're all quite different. Different morals perhaps. I grew up with the Church of England, who were very accepting of everyone from all walks of life, demographics and didn't harbour any judgement. Unfortunately not every church is like that.

That said, I'm not a Christian. Atleast I don't consider myself one anymore. I don't necessarily believe in religion, I certainly don't believe in a book written by men 3000 years ago.

However, you as a human have the right to believe in what you want. By all means it's up for debate how a accurate and truthful it is, but to call it fairytale is downright offensive in my opinion. As I said, it's not big it's not clever, you're just being a bit of a dick.

 

[blue blue]

What bollocks. Calling something that one believes in fairytale, is quite obviously offensive.

It's a poor choice of words and alternative language should be used. It also has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Well, that is actually offensive and is so ironic coming form a person who started this by saying you shouldn’t be allowed to offend.

You could have adressed my analogy in a different way, by a counter-argument instead of chosing to insult me.

You compared believing in religion to believing if a football player is good or not. If you're actually being serious use a better analogy and I'll discuss it with you.

You’re talking to someone who’s crying about discrimination against christians in a thread about homophobia. That’s a lost cause, just give up.

You are also a fool.

 

[krautrøck]

Not every person who's religious is homophobic. Let's not turn an already disgusting thread worse. People are allowed to follow whatever religion they want, it's not big and clever to call it a fairytale it's just offensive.

I was the one who brought up the "fairytale". This was in response to "gays going to hell". Hell being a concept which is part of the mythos of christianity and hence quite literally like a fairytale. This does not mean the whole religion or the mere belief in god is. But believing in mythological tales or concepts - like hell - is exactly like believing in fairytales. Fairytale is not an insult, by the way, but a literary genre usually considered to be part of the cultural heritage and of great historical, sociological and philological interest.

 

[Tarrou]

What exactly is the problem with players not coming out? This debate will rage on and on about what can be done but asides from stamping out homophobia, just like any other form of discrimination I don't see a solution. Sexuality need not be brought into football, similarly to religion or politics. I don't feel like anyone is neglecting the issue, and I imagine the next openly gay player will garner enormous support, with the exception of very few idiots and twitter trolls.

Nothing at all. However it would be nice if we lived in a society where players coming out wouldn't be a big issue if they wanted to do that, but sadly - we don't.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

What bollocks. Calling something that one believes in fairytale, is quite obviously offensive.

That is your problem though if that offends you. If we can't offend people with the things we say then there is no point in having free speech at all. That doesn't mean everyone gets a free pass to spout any sort of nonsense. Free speech comes up with the responsibility of facing the consequences of your words. I got a warning on here once for calling religion a cancer. I accept that this is a harsh choice of words but I stand by that. I would also say homophobia is a cancer and I don't care if that offends anyone. Frankly, if such a light word as fairytale is enough to offend you then I don't think your position is a very strong one.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

No imagination. Punishments on their own will do nothing to stop this type of behaviour. It is neither ridiculous or ramming it down anybody's throat. Why are you so offended by a perfectly reasonable suggestion? Please explain why having a LGBT performer at a football match is ridiculous. Are you saying Elton john has no place in entertaining a Wembley crowd?

That is not what you suggested, though. You spoke of "introducing a LGBT form of entertainment", i.e. the focus not being on Elton John's performance but him being gay. Hence the circus comparison. I know your intentions are good but that sort of comes across as "come and see the gay at half-time!" I can't imagine any LGBT person being happy about that.

Also (and that has nothing to with the thread), I don't want any form of "half-time entertainment" in football. Leave that to American sports.

 

[blue blue]

Neither will forcing a certain type of entertainment down someone's throat. I'm not offended by your suggestion but it's not reasonable to mandate it as a form of entertainment. Punitive punishments can curb LGBT discrimination the same way it's been done with gender and racial discrimination. The problem is the sports governing bodies are toothless and generally give a slap on the wrist to LGBT and racial discrimination. Not sure why you think having a LGBT halftime show will change anything and punishing those who discriminate won't. That's like saying Zenit should have all-black halftime show to change the hearts of their ultras. It's absurd.

I didn't say that. I said punishments on their own.

How can punitive punishments for LGBT discrimination be effective at football matches when the offence is generally not committed. I want to see a world where professional footballers can come out without being abused. They will not come out in the current atmosphere and we need to change that. Punitive punishments alone will not encourage people to come out so we need to think outside the box. Bringing LGBT attractions into football stadiums is not a stupid idea. Elton John, Freddie Mercury, Sam Smith, Rufus Wainright etc etc. These people are not circus acts or ridiculous.

While St Petersburg is a wonderful city it is presided over by perhaps one of the most anti-LGBT governments of them all. We should consider banning them or boycotting their matches. I agree the sporting authorities have let their like get away with bad behaviour for too long.

You really need to question why you are so against my suggestion. Do you have anything against straight entertainers performing in football stadium? We have black players promoting Kick it out for racism so why not have high profile gays doing the same for the LGBT community?