Schmidt had a good start and was probably the only manager ever to make Bellarabi look like a decent footballer (still love him but he is just not). When the rest of the league figured out his pressing style, he had no solutions what to do with the ball in possession and the last season was a disaster.
German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke
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Fully understand that you see him that way. Schmidt at Leverkusen was great fun while it lasted but it imploded spectacularly. That was probably still the most reckless/naive approach to pressing I've seen to date.
I wouldn't dismiss completely what happens in other leagues, though. I think regardless of the quality of the players, you can definitely see if a coach is methodical and able to implement a playing style. The famous handwriting. Xavi is a recent example.
Have missed that completely. So much for that. Favre is an option but seems a bit of a mismatch.
I can't imagine Terzic going to Leipzig. He is deeply rooted at Borussia and the two clubs hate each other (especially Dortmund hates Leipzig).
Tedesco would be probably another disaster on this level, I would even trust Kovac himself to do a better job. Maybe he fancies a return to the Bundesliga? I could see Leipzig going into that direction soon as he is one of the few coaches on the market who at least beat Bayern in a cup final.
Kovac is still under contract at Monaco.
And I don't know about Terzic, he comes off as quite genuine, but he's not really in a position to turn down top jobs, if he wants to have a good coaching career. And Leipzig isn't quite Schalke anyway.
I read somewhere that Leipzig want to announce something soon-ish. That would point towards someone out of contract, if not Tedesco, then perhaps Labbadia (experienced interim), Farke (ambitious football) or even AVB (somewhat fancy name). Or maybe they really just yoink Jaissle from independently operating Salzburg during the break.
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Here is a list of wrongful decisions in the games Bayern vs. BVB
https://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussb...iel.html?utm_referrer=https://www.reddit.com/
Sadly it is in German
Right, explain Xavi's "handwriting" to me. What do you see
Btw, isn't Schmidt the guy who's entire plan with possession was "punt the ball back to the opponents so we can press them" ?
That's quote I associate with Tedesco, but it could also easily apply to Schmidt. Since both were/are candidates at Leipzig, maybe they do have a clear plan after all.
You can learn something about someone's philosophy, how he approaches certain situation. But I think it's safe to assume that the level of organization, risk taking and cohesion required to outplay pressing in Bundesliga is higher than in a lot of other leagues, in particular compared to a place like China. A few days ago I read a comment from none other than Leverkusen's Frimpong, who more or less said that in Scotland he just had to bomb forward and not worry much about defending and that's why he was a bit lost initially when he arrived in Germany and was asked to deliver defensively as well. The same applies to coaching. Whatever Schmidt did or didn't do in China, by Bundesliga standards and the same may or may not apply to Eredivisie, too. Though of course at a much lesser degree.
Maybe we could say the same about Jesse Marsch, because it seems like he couldn't organize his pressing well enough to deal with Bundesliga level ball retention and counter attacking.
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As we are discussing managers here, let's have some fun and rank the summer signings (from best to worst) so far:
- Steffen Baumgart (Köln) - Cruising safely through mid table and still in the cup, massive improvement over last seasons relegations struggle both in results and style of play
- Julian Nagelsmann (Bayern München) - On track in league and CL, but the horrible cup exit (0-5 in Gladbach) is preventing him from being top of the list
- Gerardo Seoane (Leverkusen) - On track in league and EL, but out of the cup. Mostly similar to Nagelsmann in my eyes regarding the results, but their performances weren't as good, Leverkusen often were lucky
- Marco Rose (Dortmund) - League form absolutely fine, especially considering their injuries, but the CL exit shouldn't have happened in this group.
- Adi Hütter (Gladbach) - Great cup performance, but extremely inconsistent in the league. Seems to be more of a mental issue than regarding coaching, tactics, etc, but still it is his responsible to get the team working again
- Oliver Glasner (Frankfurt) - Inexcusable cup exit against a third league team, extremely shaky league form, only their EL performances are as expected
- Jesse Marsch (Leipzig) - just wasn't up for the task in the Bundesliga, he is not on the required level
- Mark van Bommel (Wolfsburg) - like Marsch, but in his case everyone was sure it wouldn't work, Marsch had at least some believers.
Wolfsburg were fine when they sacked Van Bommel. Now they aren't anymore. If you've got Van Bommel at 8th at the end of the list, surely there must be a 9th place added for Kohfeldt. Most moronic sacking I can remember.As we are discussing managers here, let's have some fun and rank the summer signings (from best to worst) so far:
Quite interested if you guys agree with me
- Steffen Baumgart (Köln) - Cruising safely through mid table and still in the cup, massive improvement over last seasons relegations struggle both in results and style of play
- Julian Nagelsmann (Bayern München) - On track in league and CL, but the horrible cup exit (0-5 in Gladbach) is preventing him from being top of the list
- Gerardo Seoane (Leverkusen) - On track in league and EL, but out of the cup. Mostly similar to Nagelsmann in my eyes regarding the results, but their performances weren't as good, Leverkusen often were lucky
- Marco Rose (Dortmund) - League form absolutely fine, especially considering their injuries, but the CL exit shouldn't have happened in this group.
- Adi Hütter (Gladbach) - Great cup performance, but extremely inconsistent in the league. Seems to be more of a mental issue than regarding coaching, tactics, etc, but still it is his responsible to get the team working again
- Oliver Glasner (Frankfurt) - Inexcusable cup exit against a third league team, extremely shaky league form, only their EL performances are as expected
- Jesse Marsch (Leipzig) - just wasn't up for the task in the Bundesliga, he is not on the required level
- Mark van Bommel (Wolfsburg) - like Marsch, but in his case everyone was sure it wouldn't work, Marsch had at least some believers.
Just look at my club. I obviously will always rate anything done by Wolfsburg as the worst
Exceeding expectations: Steffen Baumgart, before the season I would not have been surprised if Cologne were to get relegatedAs we are discussing managers here, let's have some fun and rank the summer signings (from best to worst) so far:
Quite interested if you guys agree with me
- Steffen Baumgart (Köln) - Cruising safely through mid table and still in the cup, massive improvement over last seasons relegations struggle both in results and style of play
- Julian Nagelsmann (Bayern München) - On track in league and CL, but the horrible cup exit (0-5 in Gladbach) is preventing him from being top of the list
- Gerardo Seoane (Leverkusen) - On track in league and EL, but out of the cup. Mostly similar to Nagelsmann in my eyes regarding the results, but their performances weren't as good, Leverkusen often were lucky
- Marco Rose (Dortmund) - League form absolutely fine, especially considering their injuries, but the CL exit shouldn't have happened in this group.
- Adi Hütter (Gladbach) - Great cup performance, but extremely inconsistent in the league. Seems to be more of a mental issue than regarding coaching, tactics, etc, but still it is his responsible to get the team working again
- Oliver Glasner (Frankfurt) - Inexcusable cup exit against a third league team, extremely shaky league form, only their EL performances are as expected
- Jesse Marsch (Leipzig) - just wasn't up for the task in the Bundesliga, he is not on the required level
- Mark van Bommel (Wolfsburg) - like Marsch, but in his case everyone was sure it wouldn't work, Marsch had at least some believers.
Doing okay: Nagelsmann, Rose, Seoane. Personally I'd put Seoane third between the three, because he seems the least promising for now, but with each of them you could name some positives, some negatives and evaluation could change drastically quickly.
Disappointing: Hütter (there are valid concerns with Gladbach, but you would still hope a top coach could get through to the squad and do better), Glasner doesn't really have a lot of excuses, I haven't seen a lot of Frankfurt in full length, but their football seems to be bad as well
Trainwreck: Mark van Bommel (just because he got sacked so early and before things actually got bad in the table, things must have gone really wrong behind the scenes), Jesse Marsch, might be responsible for getting Leipzig booted from top four by Freiburg or Berlin.
See, this is why everybody hates you
If you can't exploit Bayern losing to Frankfurt (12th) and Augsburg (16th), whining about refs is probably not the right play. Losing to Freiburg, Leipzig (11th) and Gladbach (13th), that's what's costing you the championship. Not the game vs. Bayern. It's not like Bayern doesn't give you plenty of opportunity.
But you do you.
Someone links you a - by now - extensive list of refereeing bias and the best you can come up with is: "well it's their own fault, for not winning every single game in the season!"?
I doubt your motivation if you put that much effort into compiling a biased list like that. So, no. I won't be taking a look at what I could easily replicate for Bayern if I had the time to spend. If you're seriously suggesting the entire referee cadre is out to get Dortmund, you sound a bit silly. You've lost the perspective. Dortmund is still in a good place, nobody here is buying your victim story.
And just to make it clear: A contentious decision doesn't justify outrage. There's plenty of back and forth on one decision. Typically that means you're not clearly cheated out of a win (or a draw in this case). Just means the decision was on the edge and could have gone either way. And I would have lived with either decisions. Had the penalty for Dortmund been given, I'd have shrugged it off as yet another dive going against Bayern. The amount of teams trying to rush the box and then dropping like flies is surreal. But don't let me spoil your victim party, I'm sure you enjoy it. Question is if any of this is changing the fact that with this attitude and the lack of self reflection on the performance on the pitch, Dortmund is not going to steal the championship from Bayern this year either.
And yes, if you look at the past few years, every single game you lose counts against your chances to win the title. I've taken a look at the last 11 years, the champion always had at most 5 losses. You're already up to 4 and the first half of the season isn't even finished. How do you fancy your chances at getting less than 1 loss in the second leg of the season? Stop whining about refs and think about that, cos that's the real question Dortmund should be asking itself. They're going to have to play the spring season of their lives, demolishing literally every team and at least getting a draw at Bayern. And no referee is going to give them pity penalties just to keep the competition interesting. Dortmund got its work cut out, I'd say.
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Dortmund had bad luck with referee decisions in the CL. I give you that. Still the team should have come out of the group stages considering the opposition.
The whining about the not given penalty on Reus is ridiculously though. Haaland was clearly offside when he passed to the ball to Reus. If VAR had checked the incident, Dortmund would never have been awarded the penalty.
The handball of Hummels is annoying but it was a clear handball. If at all Hummels was hindered by Bellingham not Mueller.
There wasn't any big wrong game deciding decision on Saturday.
The list wasn't created by me, it was someone else, who went through Kicker (as the most respected mainstream football publication in Germany) match reports and listed all the mistakes for or against either side that he could find.
But since you're on a mission to categorically deny that such a well established phenomenon as big team bias might exist in Bundesliga as well, you rather go straight for the ad hominem and other lazy deflections than actually engage with the presented evidence.
Here are reports on some scientific studies that came to the same conclusion:
https://www.focus.de/wissen/experte...n-fehlentscheidungen-im-fokus_id_3872847.html
https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/fussball-der-bayern-bonus
And Opta doing the same with stoppage time:
https://www.welt.de/sport/article16...che-Beweis-fuer-den-spaeten-Bayern-Bonus.html
Feel free to pretend those are biased or don't exist as well. I'm eagerly awaiting your deflections.
https://p-hunermund.com/2016/04/20/the-bayern-bonus/
I suggest you take a read yourself about statistical bias. And about that last article talking about net playing time. Bayern tends to win high in the league. Of course the ref is going to end a game early if the lead is 5:0 and the losing team is happy to slink back into their cabin asap. That is very common and accepted in football. It's also accepted and common in football that if the game hinges on one more goal and either side is close at getting it, the game will be played to the last second. It looks like a bias, but it's really not. It's just clear games being ended a little earlier, because nobody wants to see the torture continue needlessly.
And I'm not even mentioning the endless time wasting that habitually happens against Bayern if the opposing team is ahead. Or the massive amount of diving that happens against Bayern. Happened on Saturday, too. Personally, I'm disappointed at not more yellow cards given out, but what can you do, refs hate Bayern... I would say if I was in your position, but I don't talk about it, because I have accepted teams cheating against Bayern as just another obstacle to overcome. And I think Bayern has, too. Doesn't matter to them.
But go ahead, you wanted to talk to me about Dortmund being a victim and clickbait articles supporting that some more...
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Have you fully read the text you linked?
To conclude: I’m very curious about this piece of research but we will have to wait until a paper gets published to judge the robustness of the conclusions. A short disclaimer might also be in order as well: as a Munich supporter I will of course deny any “Bayern bonus” until ultimately proven wrong.
Last season was where Lille had a Leicester type season when they won the PL. They played really well but it was the exception rather than the norm. They currently are in 11th. PSG have won 7 out of the last 9 leagues. Their spending and wage bill is probably higher than all of the other teams combined. Even this season where they haven't played well, they are still 11 points clear. Its hardly competitive at all.
I do. It is not only a logical psychological mechanism, it's also evidenced by studies. If you believe that those are statistically biased, feel free to point those biases out. Right now you come across as somebody who doesn't want to admit that his club profits from a psychological effect (in the end, nobody is claiming that this is intended).
By the way, I think this is true for Dortmund as well, just not to the same extent since they are not as big as you. And in the past, the were less aggressive with referees. The double standards Hoeneß and Rummenigge have displayed regarding the treatment of referees for instance is unreal and of course that has the potential to influence individuals. It's naive to suggest anything else.
Beautiful.@Lagger having a mare. It's really hard to dispute all that once you take your Bayern colored glasses off.
Anyway loving it that we have actual scientific studies here.
@Lagger having a mare. It's really hard to dispute all that once you take your Bayern colored glasses off.
Quite refreshing compared to the amounts of stupid and opinionated bollocks we often see in football discussion.
Of course it also affects Dortmund positively in other fixtures. But everyone always talks about the title race being so boring and Dortmund not doing enough against Bayern and how could we ever fix it.. maybe we need to get rid of 50+1 yada yada.. and then they also pretend this increasingly obvious referee bias, especially in games between the two, doesn't exist and no one must talk about it.
Why? They are out because of a ridiculous red card against ajax and injuries. The lineup they were forced to put out in Lisbon really shouldn't have been expected to beat Sporting
Ajax appear to be REALLY fecking good this season and Sporting are one of the two best sides in Portugal, likely the best. The other is the side that might very well eliminate Atletico Madrid and current serie A leaders Milan.
I have read it, it casts some doubt on your source. Given that I'm fairly certain you've not read the study yourself and are just going by headlines in a political magazine, I don't rate it as a solid argument.
In the end, Reus wanted to steal that penalty, badly. And Hummels played a clear handball. The more you make me review the scenes, the more I have to laugh at the desperate debate you're leading here.
And yet, all I see is whining on decisions that are clearly legal and make sense. If you have eyes, that is.
What none of those studies incorporate is the class difference between Bayern and other teams. A team like Bayern doesn't compare to a team like Nerverkusen (to get away from Dortmund here). Assume there is a team that has X more "skill" (if it could be measured) than the opposing team. Simply based on that skill, the team could play more "cleanly" and tackle less. By that metric alone, the "better" team would inevitably create more chances and simply be around the opponents box more often. The statistical likelihood of them thus creating edge case decisions is higher. How often do you think the referee has to worry about a chance of Darmstadt being in Bayern's box and maybe getting a touch that may or may not mean a penalty? How often do you you think Bayern is in the opponents box, setting up camp and just waiting for something to happen?
Let's face it, y'all have your opinion and that's fine. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna have to stand here and defend any and every Bayern win, cos any and every Bayern win is either "Dusel" or "Bayern poaching the league". Come on guys, when will you wake up? This ain't ever going to change. Ever. This will be like the Scottish league, trashing after thrashing.. until people realise the problem isn't Bayern, the problem is their own teams not being Bayern. Used to be a time when I was nervous watching Bayern play Dortmund. Seemed we could not get a break at all for a solid few years. What gives?
50+1? Yes, please. Who do you honestly think will gobble up the vast majority of that money? If you abandon 50+1, Bayern is going to steamroll the league even harder. Imagine that, Bayern with Sheikh money (god please don't let that ever happen). Heck, even the CL wouldn't know what hit it, I reckon. What I wouldn't give to just have Bayern spend a cool billion bucks for funsies like half the PL seems to do... just for shits'n'giggles.
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Yes, referee bias is why Hummels gifted Bayern the first goal in one of the more comical manners I have seen recently. Or why Coman almost gets gifted a goal with a pass that according to Sportschau "is forbidden in youth leagues".
My bad. What's scientific proof against your eyes.
I'm just grateful we're having this debate about refereeing and not vaccines
You know I respect you, this is just a friendly debate. Just making sure.I'm just grateful we're having this debate about refereeing and not vaccines
I'm not fanatical enough to go back through the last 30 years and create my own statistic. I'm sure you'll see that I could easily make one and showcase an entirely different picture. But it's tedious and it's stupid and honestly, I'm not convinced it would change anyone's mind. So why bother, you refuse to acknowledge what's happening on the screen, that's fine. That's why we love football (partly). But a lot of the science on football is horribly sketchy. People are getting drunk on things like xG and the likes, thinking they can dissect football like baseball. It doesn't work like that.
The structure is the same.I'm just grateful we're having this debate about refereeing and not vaccines
A group of people employing counterfactual and unhinged conspiracy theories in order to play victims in a grotesquely overblown way, when in fact they're the ones who are responsible for the overall deteriorating state of society, as they are both not acting to improve the situation, and then instead inject destabilisation and toxicity into the whole.
Sorry, what's that? "But.. But.. what do you reply to this Twitter thread full of selectively assembled factoids?!"
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Well if you think that arguing based on scientific studies is responsible for the deterioration of society, then perhaps it's best to agree to disagree at this point.
Someone going through kicker match reports is a 'scientific study' now?
You sound like a right covidiot here..
Classy...
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I would say this will encourage him to take the vaccine, but he will now have recovered and now won't need it.
But it can encourage the others in the squad to take it (although for me the argument is still always to do it to protect others and not necessarily yourself)
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Sky reports that Leipzig are about to sign Domenico "The numbers don't reflect what we intended to do. If we go for the second ball and play the first one to the opposition intentionally, it's only natural that our pass% goes down." Tedesco.
Good young manager, will do well there.
RB clubs just love taking a punt on young managers though!