German Football 22/23 | 2. Bundesliga returns | Hamburg vs Schalke 20:30 |

[do.ob]

Have you seen Graefe's statement on the call? He suggested that the game would have gone to court had the second shot gone in on top of hand being a wrong decision to begin with. It was a truly terrible call

Assuming it is indeed Gräfe's account, since it hasn't been verified by Twitter yet. I'd split this up into two separate issues:
a) was it okay to award the penalty?
I think that's a question with a lot of technicalities. First of all is it factually wrong to award the penalty or was it a judgement call that was applied in the strictest way possible against Leverkusen.
If the latter is true, then another question is whether VAR was allowed to intervene in the first place. As far as I'm aware the threshold is very low if the ref claims that he missed the incident entirely when it happened. Unfortunately Gräfe doesn't elaborate on this much further than giving his personal opinion on the situation. In any case I agree that Leverkusen had reason to be upset with that call, since I believe most refs wouldn't have wanted to decide the game at the last kick, with such a strict call.

b) should the game have ended immediately after the penalty kick.
To be honest I have no idea about the rules here, since it happens so rarely, but if (the real) Gräfe says that it was illegal, then I accept his expertise. Maybe Hradecky knew this too and his fisting the ball straight at an Atletico player was elite level shithousery.

 

[Zehner]

Assuming it is indeed Gräfe's account, since it hasn't been verified by Twitter yet. I'd split this up into two separate issues:
a) was it okay to award the penalty?
I think that's a question with a lot of technicalities. First of all is it factually wrong to award the penalty or is it a judgement call that was apply in the strictest way possible against Leverkusen.
If the latter is true, then another question is whether VAR was allowed to intervene in the first place. As far as I'm aware the threshold is very low if the ref claims that he missed the incident entirely when it happened. Unfortunately Gräfe doesn't elaborate on this much further than giving his personal opinion on the situation. In any case I agree that Leverkusen had reason to be upset with that call, since I believe most refs wouldn't have wanted to decide the game at the last kick, with such a strict call.

b) should the game have ended immediately after the penalty kick.
To be honest I have no idea about the rules here, since it happens so rarely, but if (the real) Gräfe says that it was illegal, then I accept his expertise. Maybe Hradecky knew this too and his fisting the ball straight at an Atletico player was elite level shithousery.

Good summary. Of course it was shithousery, Hradecky is always in full control of every situation, especially in cup games.

 

[do.ob]

Writing down the words won't do this justice, but the subtitle function is somewhat okay: Schalke's interim DoF Peter Knäbel opened today's presser as if Rouven Schröder had actually died

Spoiler

Meanwhile Bild claim that Leipzig is eyeing him to work alongside Eberl

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After Rangnick and Eberl he'd be the third high ranking person to quit his job over personal reasons to sign with Leipzig not that long after.

 

[stefan92]

After Rangnick and Eberl he'd be the third high ranking person to quit his job over personal reasons to sign with Leipzig not that long after.

Isn't it nice that they offer rehab for people in trouble?

 

[do.ob]

Isn't it nice that they offer rehab for people in trouble?

In principle I'm all against speculating about people's private matters and Eberl especially seemed convincing to me, at least at the time of his presser. However at some point - and that might not be at the third person to do so - it becomes a pattern.

 

[stefan92]

In principle I'm all against speculating about people's private matters and Eberl especially seemed convincing to me, at least at the time of his presser. However at some point - and that might not be at the third person to do so - it becomes a pattern.

Yeah, both Eberl and Rangnick needed time before returning into a job and I think RB might be much better organised and experience much lower fan pressure than most other clubs, so there is a decent reason why those people restart their career there.

But if we are already now talking about Schröder, just days after he left Schalke, then it feels sour.

 

[Zehner]

Writing down the words won't do this justice, but the subtitle function is somewhat okay: Schalke's interim DoF Peter Knäbel opened today's presser as if Rouven Schröder had actually died

Spoiler

What the hell

 

[do.ob]

What the hell

Somehow they always find a way to turn things into a circus.

Some solid memes:

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You could basically copy paste the entire 2:20 into a memorial service, though I guess the "he decided of his own free will to go [...] and we need to respect his decision" sounds a bit like he commited suicide, but in a respectable way.

 

[Blackwidow]

Last action in the Bayern match prior to half time:

Penalty awarded to Mainz - so it is not even clear if Ulreich did not touch the ball before. Ulreich saves the penalty to a corner. Corner - goal Mainz. 3:1 for Bayern.

 

[do.ob]

It's going to be tough for Leverkusen now. Down a goal at half time and at least one penalty still coming.

 

[do.ob]

Xabi's games so far:

1W 2D 3L - 9:14 GD

Getting a freebie against Schalke even added quite a bit of window dressing.

Not necessarily an easy set of fixtures that got them there, but fact is that they are back in the relegation zone now.

Not sure what to make of that outlook, on one hand we could call it hard - on the other Brügge are already qualified, Union will have two fewer rest days after giving it their all in the EL and Stuttgart have been very messy at the back, which will probably give Diaby&co the space they need to look good. I guess Xabi better beat Stuttgart and get something in at least one of the other games, too. Otherwise the table might look a bit too grim before the long winter break.

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How funny would it be if Götze and Rode fire Dortmund into another crisis?

Could be 8th place and a four point gap to 4th if everything goes badly. Leipzig having caught up already - despite their terrible start - isn't a mark of honour either.

 

[NieThePiet]

Kobel + Ref vs Frankfurt

 

[do.ob]

Kobel + Ref vs Frankfurt

Quite the achievement for the ref and GK to score two goals between them.

 

[Acrobat7]

Kobel + Ref vs Frankfurt

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I am not watching but he is usually spot on with his takes.

 

[do.ob]

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I am not watching but he is usually spot on with his takes.

He's not wrong in the sense that Frankfurt could/should have scored a couple of goals, but I'm struggling to see where the :1 comes from. Because if he's implying that Dortmund should have lost their first goal to Frankfurt's LWB being sent off, then I'd say that the game probably would have gone quite a bit differently if they had to play a man down for 80 minutes.

 

[Acrobat7]

He's not wrong in the sense that Frankfurt could/should have scored a couple of goals, but I'm struggling to see where the :1 comes from. Because if he's implying that Dortmund should have lost their first goal to Frankfurt's LWB being sent off, then I'd say that the game probably would have gone quite a bit differently if they had to play a man down for 80 minutes.

Mate, i really don’t know. I didn’t watch the game and was just surprised by his statement

 

[hellhunter]

Big match today @stefan92

 

[stefan92]

Big match today @stefan92

Yes... but I'm sorry, we need the win to stay in the promotion race, so nothing for you today.

 

[stefan92]

Yes... but I'm sorry, we need the win to stay in the promotion race, so nothing for you today.

Told you so

Back to the first league: F**** hell Union Berlin... scoring the 2-1 winner in the 97th minute to stay at the top of the table...
I've got the nagging but ridiculous feeling that the stars are aligning....

 

[do.ob]

From time to time I'm still impressed how good Grifo looks for Freiburg and how badly things went for him at Hoffenheim and Gladbach.

Told you so

Back to the first league: F**** hell Union Berlin... scoring the 2-1 winner in the 97th minute to stay at the top of the table...
I've got the nagging but ridiculous feeling that the stars are aligning....

I had already switched games and only realized they still won this when I read your post

But Bayern have caught up with them already, so it would take a massive post WC meltdown to get this over the line. I have a feeling they will lose/draw against Leverkusen next week, too.

 

[stefan92]

I have a feeling they will lose/draw against Leverkusen next week, too.

That's of course possible, but I think the much more realistic scenario is that a still pretty unstable Leverkusen tries to play football and gets cynically massacred by Union counter attacks.

 

[do.ob]

That's of course possible, but I think the much more realistic scenario is that a still pretty unstable Leverkusen tries to play football and gets cynically massacred by Union counter attacks.

Sure, Union are on top, Leverkusen are relegation candidates. So logic says Union will win. It's just have a feeling that either team prefers the underdog role and Leverkusen having it will benefit them.
It's not like Xabi set's them up in a particular naive way, far from it: back five with three CBs two FBs, in front of them a somewhat conservative CM pairing with Andrich and a "balanced" player as a partner.
They are set up to play on the counter and I'm expecting Union to be a bit tired.

Schwolow is like Hradecky on crack. It's insane how much of a liability he is: constantly mispositioning, half the balls on his goals blocked straight back into the danger zone. Hard to imagine that even Fährmann is any worse.

 

[stefan92]

It's not like Xabi set's them up in a particular naive way, far from it: back five with three CBs two FBs, in front of them a somewhat conservative CM pairing with Andrich and a "balanced" player as a partner.
They are set up to play on the counter and I'm expecting Union to be a bit tired.

In theory it is a pretty solid 3-4-3 that Xabi created, but in practice it just doesn't work right now - not as reliable as it should at least. So I agree, he isn't naive, but he also isn't experienced enough to make it work immediately. And they are playing at home and under much more pressure than Union, they urgently need a win while Union can just relax, sit back and wait for their opportunities.

 

[Chairman Steve]

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Gladbach social media manager is in tune with the fanbase with the no frills approach

 

[ForEverEleven]

In theory it is a pretty solid 3-4-3 that Xabi created, but in practice it just doesn't work right now - not as reliable as it should at least. So I agree, he isn't naive, but he also isn't experienced enough to make it work immediately. And they are playing at home and under much more pressure than Union, they urgently need a win while Union can just relax, sit back and wait for their opportunities.

Seriously, everyone playing Union should do it the Bochum way. Long Balls, go for second balls, let them keep possession, catch them on the break or a set piece. Terrorism must be fought with terrorism.

 

[Blackwidow]

Seriously, everyone playing Union should do it the Bochum way. Long Balls, go for second balls, let them keep possession, catch them on the break or a set piece. Terrorism must be fought with terrorism.

Problem is that not all teams are so well equipped for terrorism as Union is...

 

[arthurka]

SC Freiburg are moving along nicely.

 

[Blackwidow]

SC Freiburg are moving along nicely.

But Freiburg somehow aren't even overperforming - or do not do it by much. If you e.g. look at understat you see, that Freiburg is 3rd when the xPts are taken into account, too. They even underperformed in goalscoring - and just slightly overperformed with goals against. Freiburg is a very solid team somehow - nothing really inspiring - in nothing but the set-pieces really overwhelmingly good - but with all the "fancier" teams not being very stable or balanced they are really performing strong.

Whereas Union Berlin made 21 goals out of a xG of 11.48 - had only 9 goals against out of an xGA of 11.51 - and has 26 points out of an xPts from 16.14

It is funny how well Augsburg performs in this league, too. Least ball possession, least passing accuracy - top of the class when it is about yellow cards - they are very agressive. But they still are somewhat midtable with some points ahead of the relegation ranks.

 

[Zehner]

But Freiburg somehow aren't even overperforming - or do not do it by much. If you e.g. look at understat you see, that Freiburg is 3rd when the xPts are taken into account, too. They even underperformed in goalscoring - and just slightly overperformed with goals against. Freiburg is a very solid team somehow - nothing really inspiring - in nothing but the set-pieces really overwhelmingly good - but with all the "fancier" teams not being very stable or balanced they are really performing strong.

Whereas Union Berlin made 21 goals out of a xG of 11.48 - had only 9 goals against out of an xGA of 11.51 - and has 26 points out of an xPts from 16.14

It is funny how well Augsburg performs in this league, too. Least ball possession, least passing accuracy - top of the class when it is about yellow cards - they are very agressive. But they still are somewhat midtable with some points ahead of the relegation ranks.

I think Freiburg has a very good team to be honest. Grifo, Doan and Kyereh are technically very, very good attackers. Ginter is class, Lienhart also pretty solid and Gregoritsch is a decent target man. Add to that lots of hard working players and quite tidy players (Sildillia, Höler, Höfler, Günther, etc.) and you get a team that's individually top 6 if not more. I'd have them on the same level as Frankfurt or even ahead of them. Better players than Gladbach and Union for instance if you ask me.

 

[do.ob]

I think Freiburg has a very good team to be honest. Grifo, Doan and Kyereh are technically very, very good attackers. Ginter is class, Lienhart also pretty solid and Gregoritsch is a decent target man. Add to that lots of hard working players and quite tidy players (Sildillia, Höler, Höfler, Günther, etc.) and you get a team that's individually top 6 if not more. I'd have them on the same level as Frankfurt or even ahead of them. Better players than Gladbach and Union for instance if you ask me.

As a unit they are good, but I'd rather credit the people around the team for that. Ginter aside I have a hard time imagining who would do well elsewhere. Grifo, arguably their best attacker individually, already flopped badly at Gladbach and Hoffenheim, Doan was kind of okay at Bielefeld and apparently not much at PSV, Gregoritsch wasn't even a consistent fixture at Augsburg

 

[do.ob]

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Another episode of #HowAreHerthaThisfecked?

For 21/22:
a loss of €79.8m (the year before €77m loss)
€97.7m personnel cost to finish 16th

Forecast for 22/23:
another loss of €52.8m and that already factors in player sales from the summer.

Their entire squad value is given at €104m on TM. Not the best metric, but it puts their personnel cost and losses a bit into perspective. They are burning money at an awe-inspiring rate, with little to no returns on the sporting or player value side..

 

[stefan92]

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Another episode of #HowAreHerthaThisfecked?

For 21/22:
a loss of €79.8m (the year before €77m loss)
€97.7m personnel cost to finish 16th

Forecast for 22/23:
another loss of €52.8m and that already factors in player sales from the summer.

Their entire squad value is given at €104m on TM. Not the best metric, but it puts their personnel cost and losses a bit into perspective. They are burning money at an awe-inspiring rate, with little to no returns on the sporting or player value side..

You glossed over the most disastrous point: They have only €29m equity left - the expected loss means they will have a negative equity. This is a disaster as that means they can't give securities for their loans. You have to pay quite a lot of extra interest to cover that risk...

 

[do.ob]

You glossed over the most disastrous point: They have only €29m equity left - the expected loss means they will have a negative equity. This is a disaster as that means they can't give securities for their loans. You have to pay quite a lot of extra interest to cover that risk...

You're right, I kind of took that as a given, since their losses are so huge. I wonder how they (are hoping to) survive this? They don't own their stadium or even their club. Berlin (as in the city/state) has quite messy finances itself and Hertha doesn't exactly have the same political capital as say Schalke, so I wouldn't expect a huge bailout and the only people I could imagine pumping private money into such a shit show are Klaus Michael Kühne or Lars Windhorst. That doesn't seem particularly likely at the moment.

 

[CookieMonster]

In addition to that Berlin has another club in the Bundesliga with Union Berlin that has been doing very well and established itself as a Bundesliga club.
So you can't even argue about losing prestige for the capital, if Hertha is eventually forced to restart in the third league.

So, if they don't manage a fast turn around/get a new rich sugar daddy, Hertha could face dark times and go the way of 1860 Munich.

 

[TheReligion]

Bayern have a ridiculously high GD (+28) compared to everyone else.

Union Berlin at the top have +12 for comparison.

Strange anomaly.

 

[Acrobat7]

Bayern have a ridiculously high GD (+28) compared to everyone else.

Union Berlin at the top have +12 for comparison.

Strange anomaly.

Union is overperforming their expected goals and points like crazy. This, normally, cannot and will not go on.

 

[stefan92]

Bayern have a ridiculously high GD (+28) compared to everyone else.

Union Berlin at the top have +12 for comparison.

Strange anomaly.

Bayern rarely have narrow wins, if they win it's usually by a high margin

Union is overperforming their expected goals and points like crazy. This, normally, cannot and will not go on.

Nonetheless it's funny to see that Union has +12, Bayern +28, and everyone around them about +5

 

[do.ob]

It's looking quite competitive at the moment, however Buzzkillimpact still suggests a rather boring final table.

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[GhastlyHun]

So, Manuel Neuer just went public with news of him having skin cancer which required three surgeries on his face. Damn

 

[Blackwidow]

So, Manuel Neuer just went public with news of him having skin cancer which required three surgeries on his face. Damn

This news is somehow entwined with the advertising campaign accompanied by BILD for his and Kerber's new skin care - what makes it somehow cringy...

Bayern have a ridiculous attack compared to the other teams...