German Football 22/23 | 2. Bundesliga returns | Hamburg vs Schalke 20:30 |

[do.ob]

Yea that's true though, he does make poor decisions. Another issue is that Malen and Reyna haven't been great at at LW themselves, Reus hasn't been tried there lately I think.

I think Dortmund's best lineup at the moment is:

Kobel - Wolf, Süle, Schlotterbeck, Ryerson - Can - Bellingham, Öczan - Brandt, Adeyemi - Haller

Adeyemi has been doing relatively well in 2023 and is clearly ahead of his competitors.

 

[Zehner]

I didn't watch the full match, but from what I've seen, Leverkusen immediately took the lead with a long shot and then Frimpong got to run behind Hoffenheims back line a lot.
I don't think anyone ever doubted that he can run really fast.

Frimpong is also great at taking out multiple players and carrying the ball, not just when he has lots of space to attack inbehind. He often even cuts inside while doing so where it's quite crowded. Diaby generally has that in him, too, but is much more inconsistent with it so he's more reliant on space inbehind.

That aside, I think Wirtz will help us a lot when teams sit back. Had an incredible game yesterday and he's just so, so good at finding passing lanes and moving between the lines.

 

[Blackwidow]

Gladbach was recovering themselves again for the match at the next weekend...

 

[uamini]

Gladbach was recovering themselves again for the match at the next weekend...

Pretty shocking performance, they made Hertha look decent...this might be the year Bayern finally have a chance.

 

[Blackwidow]

Pretty shocking performance, they made Hertha look decent...this might be the year Bayern finally have a chance.

Maybe - but I think that the new goalkeeper might slip into Sommer's hero shoes now?

Cologne is leading 2:0 against Frankfurt with 15 to 20 minutes to go (including extra time)

 

[do.ob]

Something is just fundamentally wrong with Gladbach's squad, they have been like this since Rose's second season at the latest.
Hard to believe the club still kept all of their players until the bitter end, not cashing in on any of them, aside from Sommer and Zakaria with 6 months left on their contracts.

 

[Acrobat7]

Something is just fundamentally wrong with Gladbach's squad, they have been like this since Rose's second season at the latest.
Hard to believe the club still kept all of their players until the bitter end, not cashing in on any of them, aside from Sommer and Zakaria with 6 months left on their contracts.

It really is incredible. You would think that they wouldn’t let contracts run down when missing out on CL.

 

[do.ob]

https://www.kicker.de/fristlose-kuendigung-der-fall-bobic-wird-zur-schlammschlacht-937668/artikel

Such an entertaining club.

 

[uamini]

Any thoughts on Hoffenheim's epic negative run?
They were in 4th place with 17 points after 10 matches and now have 19 points after 21 matches.
And this is a team that has players like Kramaric or Angelino on its roster. Are they struck by Kabak's curse? This man is 22 years old and has already been relegated with Stuttgart, Schalke and Norwich. Why do teams keep investing in him?

 

[stefan92]

Any thoughts on Hoffenheim's epic negative run?
They were in 4th place with 17 points after 10 matches and now have 19 points after 21 matches.
And this is a team that has players like Kramaric or Angelino on its roster. Are they struck by Kabak's curse? This man is 22 years old and has already been relegated with Stuttgart, Schalke and Norwich. Why do teams keep investing in him?

Does anybody really care about them?

 

[do.ob]

Any thoughts on Hoffenheim's epic negative run?
They were in 4th place with 17 points after 10 matches and now have 19 points after 21 matches.
And this is a team that has players like Kramaric or Angelino on its roster. Are they struck by Kabak's curse? This man is 22 years old and has already been relegated with Stuttgart, Schalke and Norwich. Why do teams keep investing in him?

Someone very smart wrote before the season: "Breitenreiter, what were they thinking?". I think he's not exactly the best coach and he also was a terrible fit for Hoffenheim, who in my opinion need a progressive coach. So I don't think it's a huge surprise that they are having a bad season, even if they did have a decent start initially. In hindsight you could also try to poke some holes into said start, for example of those 17 points 15 came from wins against Bochum, Leverkusen, Augsburg, Mainz and Schalke. Teams, that themselves had bad to abysmal form at at the beginning of the season.

And I'm sorry to bring this topic up again, but I actually think their plastic status has a significant impact on this. Because, as you mentioned their squad isn't actually that terrible, so the reasons for their under-performance - especially now that Breitenreiter is gone - have to be in no small part in the realm of psychology and mentality.

And I don't see how players can be entirely immune to seeing for example Bochum "get high on" Grönemeyer before the match and then take that buzz into the opening minutes and then they turn around and see about 5 fans in the away block. Against Augsburg, Hoffenheim sold an impressive total of 120 out of 2500 tickets for their standing area, while Augsburg largely sold out their allocation.

We're at a point where the league has to do something about this, maybe it would be better if away tickets were sold block-wise to the visiting team itself, so we'd either have the visiting team pay the price for their lack of fans or at least give the home team the opportunity to sell the tickets to their own fans.

And while we have learned in this thread that private owners are happy to pump their own money into their cubs for endless growth, Hoffenheim's transfer balance may also be worth a look.

19/20 +€66m
20/21 +€13m
21/22 +€850k
22/23 +€40m

So from a player perspective:

• they stick you with a shitty coach
• "someone" seems to be constantly taking money out of the club, instead of building the squad
• they sell your (perhaps) most talented attacker in winter and loan a bunch of flops from other clubs "to turn things around"
• these days support largely consists of empty plastic seats, who don't tend to make a lot of noise

So why should they give a feck about what's happening to the "club"? You can see a similar effect at their fellow plastics, when it rains it pours, if the season goes bad it goes really bad, all the way down to the double digit ranks.

 

[uamini]

Someone very smart wrote before the season: "Breitenreiter, what were they thinking?". I think he's not exactly the best coach and he also was a terrible fit for Hoffenheim, who in my opinion need a progressive coach. So I don't think it's a huge surprise that they are having a bad season, even if they did have a decent start initially. In hindsight you could also try to poke some holes into said start, for example of those 17 points 15 came from wins against Bochum, Leverkusen, Augsburg, Mainz and Schalke. Teams, that themselves had bad to abysmal form at at the beginning of the season.

And I'm sorry to bring this topic up again, but I actually think their plastic status has a significant impact on this. Because, as you mentioned their squad isn't actually that terrible, so the reasons for their under-performance - especially now that Breitenreiter is gone - have to be in no small part in the realm of psychology and mentality.

And I don't see how players can be entirely immune to seeing for example Bochum "get high on" Grönemeyer before the match and then take that buzz into the opening minutes and then they turn around and see about 5 fans in the away block. Against Augsburg, Hoffenheim sold an impressive total of 120 out of 2500 tickets for their standing area, while Augsburg largely sold out their allocation.

We're at a point where the league has to do something about this, maybe it would be better if away tickets were sold block-wise to the visiting team itself, so we'd either have the visiting team pay the price for their lack of fans or at least give the home team the opportunity to sell the tickets to their own fans.

And while we have learned in this thread that private owners are happy to pump their own money into their cubs for endless growth, Hoffenheim's transfer balance may also be worth a look.

19/20 +€66m
20/21 +€13m
21/22 +€850k
22/23 +€40m

So from a player perspective:

• they stick you with a shitty coach
• "someone" seems to be constantly taking money out of the club, instead of building the squad
• they sell your (perhaps) most talented attacker in winter and loan a bunch of flops from other clubs "to turn things around"
• these days support largely consists of empty plastic seats, who don't tend to make a lot of noise

So why should they give a feck about what's happening to the "club"? You can see a similar effect at their fellow plastics, when it rains it pours, if the season goes bad it goes really bad, all the way down to the double digit ranks.

Yeah, pretty solid analysis...Hoffenheim has always felt the most vulnerable out of that group with slightly questionable ownership situations (so basically Wolfsburg, Leipzig and Leverkusen). I don't think it's a stretch to one day see them relegated and then completely disappear from professional football and that might already have happened if Dortmund hadn't gifted them a lifeline in 2013.
Then again this could also be a Wolfsburg type of situation - flirting with regulation only to be a Euro League team a year later.
I have a hard time seeing them finish behind the likes of Stuttgart and Hertha though, that extra bit of quality should be worth enough points regardless of motivation.

 

[Zehner]

Someone very smart wrote before the season: "Breitenreiter, what were they thinking?". I think he's not exactly the best coach and he also was a terrible fit for Hoffenheim, who in my opinion need a progressive coach. So I don't think it's a huge surprise that they are having a bad season, even if they did have a decent start initially. In hindsight you could also try to poke some holes into said start, for example of those 17 points 15 came from wins against Bochum, Leverkusen, Augsburg, Mainz and Schalke. Teams, that themselves had bad to abysmal form at at the beginning of the season.

And I'm sorry to bring this topic up again, but I actually think their plastic status has a significant impact on this. Because, as you mentioned their squad isn't actually that terrible, so the reasons for their under-performance - especially now that Breitenreiter is gone - have to be in no small part in the realm of psychology and mentality.

And I don't see how players can be entirely immune to seeing for example Bochum "get high on" Grönemeyer before the match and then take that buzz into the opening minutes and then they turn around and see about 5 fans in the away block. Against Augsburg, Hoffenheim sold an impressive total of 120 out of 2500 tickets for their standing area, while Augsburg largely sold out their allocation.

We're at a point where the league has to do something about this, maybe it would be better if away tickets were sold block-wise to the visiting team itself, so we'd either have the visiting team pay the price for their lack of fans or at least give the home team the opportunity to sell the tickets to their own fans.

And while we have learned in this thread that private owners are happy to pump their own money into their cubs for endless growth, Hoffenheim's transfer balance may also be worth a look.

19/20 +€66m
20/21 +€13m
21/22 +€850k
22/23 +€40m

So from a player perspective:

• they stick you with a shitty coach
• "someone" seems to be constantly taking money out of the club, instead of building the squad
• they sell your (perhaps) most talented attacker in winter and loan a bunch of flops from other clubs "to turn things around"
• these days support largely consists of empty plastic seats, who don't tend to make a lot of noise

So why should they give a feck about what's happening to the "club"? You can see a similar effect at their fellow plastics, when it rains it pours, if the season goes bad it goes really bad, all the way down to the double digit ranks.

Do you want to suggest Hopp takes money out of the club?

I guess this is rather Hoffenheim standing on its own feet as Hopp announced a few years back in order to comply with FFP. If I'm not mistaken that was also the reason Rangnick left. The idea that he sees it as an income source is frankly speaking ridiculous. This is clearly born out of football romanticism. If he was interested in maximizing his return on investment, he'd probably have been better off investing into an ETF than into Hoffenheim.

That being said, your beloved plastic clubs probably have rough times ahead of them in general, save for Leipzig. Primarily because some of the traditional clubs are finally getting theirnact together, namely Frankfurt, and then they can't keep up. As long as Hoffenheim has to be self sustaining, they stand no real chance against that, and will find themselves as a midtable club. And midtable clubs go through crises like this from time to time.

 

[do.ob]

Do you want to suggest Hopp takes money out of the club?

I guess this is rather Hoffenheim standing on its own feet as Hopp announced a few years back in order to comply with FFP. If I'm not mistaken that was also the reason Rangnick left. The idea that he sees it as an income source is frankly speaking ridiculous. This is clearly born out of football romanticism. If he was interested in maximizing his return on investment, he'd probably have been better off investing into an ETF than into Hoffenheim.

preposterous idea, I know:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roberto-firminos-liverpool-transfer-under-10399011
https://www.kicker.de/hopp-firma-uebernimmt-zweitligisten-869550/artikel

That being said, your beloved plastic clubs probably have rough times ahead of them in general, save for Leipzig. Primarily because some of the traditional clubs are finally getting theirnact together, namely Frankfurt, and then they can't keep up. As long as Hoffenheim has to be self sustaining, they stand no real chance against that, and will find themselves as a midtable club. And midtable clubs go through crises like this from time to time.

Is Frankfurt having a good year or two keeping seats of plastic clubs empty?

 

[do.ob]

2. Bundesliga's relegation battle looks like it could shape up to be fun.

Even the last placed team has about 1 ppg, which can sometimes be enough to avoid even the playoff. If things stay as they are today and Sandhausen beat mighty KSC tomorrow we could theoretically see even Hannover sweat a litte over a more few bad results.

 

[avgp_1]

Upamecano sent off

 

[Goldfiessli]

I am far from a Bayern fan, but that’s a harsh red for Upamecano.

 

[GhastlyHun]

How does this red card survive VAR, complete bullshit

 

[do.ob]

Dortmund should just put on white shirts when they play Bayern.

How does this red card survive VAR, complete bullshit

I am far from a Bayern fan, but that’s a harsh red for Upamecano.

If there was a contact, then I don't think it really matters how strong it was, at full speed small forces matter and it was from behind. But to be honest I have no idea what really happened, even with the replay.

 

[JustinC00]

There was definitely less in it than what Kounde did to Rashford

 

[avgp_1]

And Gladbach lead now. Sommer probably didn't see that until it was too late

 

[JustinC00]

How does this red card survive VAR, complete bullshit

How didn't VAR look at the Kounde clear red?

 

[do.ob]

Only 26 goals to go for Dortmund.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Should've been 2-0 there.

 

[do.ob]

It's nice to see that Gladbach's fans still pay him some respect.

Tweet

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also: what is wrong with these Karneval people..

Tweet

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[B. Munich]

What a joke of a decision. First there was a clear foul on Müller pulling his shirt. The ref let play on but there isn't any advantage as it directly leads to the one on one of Plea and Upamecano.
There isn't any contact. It looks more like a dive than a foul.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Choupo Goating!

 

[Scottynaldinho]

So, what's the verdict on the German André Villas-Boas? Still worth the hype?

 

[do.ob]

Bayern are a bit open at the back, aren't they?

 

[GhastlyHun]

Bayern are a bit open at the back, aren't they?

At times it even looks like they're a man down

 

[avgp_1]

Kone has played very well

 

[uamini]

Is this going to be one of those situations where Bayern let Union get to the top for a week only to clobber them 5:0 next Sunday?

 

[do.ob]

Is this going to be one of those situation where Bayern let Union get to the top for a week only to clobber them 5:0 next Sunday?

Yes, garnished with Dortmund dropping points tomorrow, because they are tired from their CL fixture.

 

[uamini]

Yes, garnished with Dortmund dropping points tomorrow, because they are tired from their CL fixture.

Meh, that'll still be a comfortable win...

Really tough schedule for Union though, a Thursday night classic against Ajax and then a trip to Munich not even three days later...but considering that their run stopped making sense a while ago I also wouldn't be surprised if they somehow made a succesful week out of this.

 

[giorno]

Death taxes and Bayern losing to Gladbach

Also, who the feck is this EDIT- seriously??? M-a-n-u Koné guy?!?!? wow

 

[Pintu]

That's it then...

 

[cyberman]

Only problem for Bayern is buying 3/4 clubs best players next summer than the usual one

 

[do.ob]

:thinking:

 

[giorno]

Seriously how good is this guy why have i never heard of him

 

[do.ob]

Seriously how good is this guy why have i never heard of him

Bayern just can't seem to shut him down, it's like Gladbach are a man ahead in midfield.