I kinda like Frankfurt playing in the Conference League next season...one of the rare German teams that will take this seriously and actually try to win the whole thing.
German Football 22/23 | 2. Bundesliga returns | Hamburg vs Schalke 20:30 |
- Thread starter do.ob
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I'm down to watching League of Ireland and Bundesliga relegation playoffs.
Anyone willing to give me a very brief story of what's happening with this one? Who should I be rooting for?
Anyone willing to give me a very brief story of what's happening with this one? Who should I be rooting for?
Your choice.
Hamburg leads 1:0. So it is 1:3 for Stuttgart for both matches. Could still get interesting...
Fun fact is that both coaches were successors of Ten Hag for Bayern's U23. Walter first, Hoeneß in 19/20.
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Ok thanks
And it doesn't matter who you root for. Both are traditionally big clubs who have been severily mismanaged for years. In that sense there is not much difference between the clubs. No underdog story or something like that ongoing.
As Bayern fan I would not mind to have Hamburg back now that Schalke is gone, too. Stuttgart is no sure win - Hamburg was there for drubbings in the recent seasons...
The Hamburg keeper 
Is it just me or there are a lot of news about Bayern players wanting away for not playing enough, unhappy about some other things, being courted by other teams? Gives the impression that Bayern is about to get raided like some small or medium one season wonder team.
Maybe I wasn't paying much attention to transfer news in the past so this is normal.
Maybe I wasn't paying much attention to transfer news in the past so this is normal.
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To some degree it's normal, but this time it really seems to be more. The chaos on board level seems to have consequences so it will be an interesting summer.
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On one hand they seem to be trying quite hard to sign someone that would replace him on the other he's supposedly being discussed as team captain? If this is isn't Bild bs then I'm a bit confused. Surely the plan is not to start Can in Bellingham's role?!
Didn't he perform quite well as a RCB over a longer period of time last season? Mabye the idea is to have him as the 12th starter who can play multiple positions. It would also be a bit risky to let him leave and replace him with Alvarez when there is no need for cash - new signings can take a while to acclimatize after all. And if they want to have a shot at the title, they need to retain the form they showed in the second half of the 22/23 season right from the start. And Can's much improved performances played a huge part in that.
Might even be the case they start with two CDMs at times? Have Brandt in a more advanced role and sit a bit deeper to utilize the pace of Adeyemi and Malen?
Can was very important as a DM in 2023, which is why I'm surprised they seem to be eager to spend a big chunk of their budget on a player, who would fill that exact same tactical role.
Between Hummels, Süle and Schlotterbeck, Can would only be looking at a hand full of games at CB and ironically Alvarez played there for Ajax, too. He's probably as close a like for like replacement of Can's duties as anyone. Between Wolf, Bensebaini, Ryerson and the young RB they are trying to buy, Can wouldn't be needed much at FB either.
I don't think they could afford to play both of them next to each other often, as the team would lack a ball carrier in the center. And while competition for spots is indeed important and signing another DM is mandatory, it would seem more logical to me to spend big on Bellingham's replacement and a bit less on an alternative to Can than the other way around.
Yeah, it seems noticeable that they pursue a second player of this profile. Maybe Terzic is planning for a tactical setup in which it is important that the DMs can switch between R/LCB and CM? Or Alvarez isn't that close to completion after all and they changed their mind on Can based on both his recent performances and the price tag Ajax putt on Alvarez.
Anyway, Can himself is actually a decent ball carrier I think. Nowhere close to Bellingham obviously and personally I'd say his improvement last season was also due to him cutting stuff like this from his game but I wouldn't rule out that he could play his role if they want to replace Bellingham with a similar type of CM. Or they pursue a more possession oriented setup in the midfield to get the recently very much in form attacking players into good situations more often.
Why is Watzke talking about Nmecha before the clubs announce the transfer?
Don‘t they have a communications department?
Don‘t they have a communications department?
The quotes were supposedly not authorized for release (yet). So by that logic the fault would lie with the journalists, either for leaking or for going against the unwritten rules of football interviews. However the SZ article, which contains the Watzke quotes, was written by Röckenhaus, so that gives reason to suspect that the club could be behind this after all, I guess to control the narrative.Why is Watzke talking about Nmecha before the clubs announce the transfer?
Don‘t they have a communications department?
"These topics are rather foreign to the normal football audience" is also one of those "tell me you're old without telling me you're old" moments.
Yeah, i google it a bit more. Someone fecked up the communication on this one. Everyone knows he is joining Dortmund, but this is still rather strange. Oh, well.
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This is turning into a full blown meltdown for the kids on Twitter and maybe Watzke was correct, because suddenly Nmecha's social media posts seem to be the least of everyone's concern.
To be fair, that is a lot of money. The Bellingham effect in full force: everyone knows Dortmund got the money.
Wasn‘t Alvarez(sp?) supposedly priced similar?
According to all those reports that got people riled up it's up to €30m, including bonuses. And I read somewhere he's supposedly been offered a performance dependant wage of up to €4m.
Alvarez meanwhile supposedly would have cost around €40m and considering he's older and (much) more established, he probably would have earned almost double that.
Meaning the total package for Nmecha is going to be something like €50m over 5 years, or €10m a year over a five year contract.
Whereas the total package for Alvarez would have been something like €80m, or €15m a year over a five year contract.
And tactically they are entirely different species. Alvarez would have been a like for like replacement for Emre Can, Nmecha is much more like Bellingham. Those two transfers didn't even directly compete with each other. As I mentioned a couple of posts above, I was quite surprised that they seemed to be trying to spend a big chunk of money to dump Can, just as he had a pretty good half-season and apparently started to become a little bit of a leader in the dressing room, so I think it was a no-brainer to get out of the Alvarez deal, when Ajax reportedly started to up the asking price.
It's not like you have to wonder "why the hell are they buying him???"
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His agility looks quite freakish for someone his size, if the other parts of his game mature into reliable levels, he's going to be quite a valuable player because of that. So I think the fans should give the scouts the benefit of the doubt and postpone their meltdown for a couple of months.
I (obviously) didn't follow Wolfsburg, so I have no opinion on his performances on the pitch and trust your judgement. The way he moves in the video he looks a bit like Gravenberch to me, which is not a bad thing per se.
And yes, Alvarez would have been a different and more expensive route. More a nice-to-have, not a need-to-have.
Character concerns about Nmecha are obviously valid, so I hope someone talks to him and he is able to open his mind more.
I also thought he was very similar to Bellingham in the YouTube videos. Great physique and good technique but also surprisingly quick feet for a player his size. Really reminiscent of Bellingham. Small question marks behind his passing for me. Maybe Dortmund thinks he's a hidden gem and his price will sky rocket when he can present himself in front of a bigger audience. They usually know what they're doing when purchasing talents (although I still would have gone for a different profile instead of a like for like replacement). Dortmund must be really convinced by him if they pay this sum despite the scandal.
That being said, I really wouldn't want my club to sign him after those Social Media posts. Good player or not, those religious fundamentalists belong into the past.
That being said, I really wouldn't want my club to sign him after those Social Media posts. Good player or not, those religious fundamentalists belong into the past.
I'm not a VW
I think some people are losing perspective: he hasn't refused to wear rainbows, he has apologized instead of doubling down on "religion" - I'm not happy about seeing a religious person at the club and I'm not enthusiastic about him wearing the shirt, but he's not the monster that some Twitter bubbles make him out to be, and I think the majority of people won't think another second about it, if he happens to do well.
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I agree he's no monster but even if you give him the benefit of the doubt with the pride vs grace post ("oh, I didn't know that the image was a sidedig against the "pride month" although I follow influencers who criticize LGTBQ heavily"), his answer on the rainbow armlet question is pretty obvious, IMO. If you don't believe that LGBTQ are sinners, why would you need to ask god for advice before wearing the armlet?
Plus I think that the handling of the whole situation by Watzke is pretty bad. A 64 year old white heterosexual man decides that Nmecha isn't homo-/transphobic and then goes on to say that football fans don't really care that much about such topics. Well, yeah.. maybe this is the problem?
Just saw that Dieter Hottges has died. I remember him playing for West Germany back in the day in the 1966 World Cup and again in the QF in Mexico when he was taken off at half time for Willi Schulz. He missed the SF against Italy but was part of the West German squad that lifted the trophy in 1974. RIP.
Obviously it's bad and Watzke, being a CDU man, is clearly out of touch with young people on topics like this. What bothers me is that I think for a lot of people morals are correlated with how good someone plays football, so I find it hard to take a lot of the meltdowns seriously and I think objectively it's not proportionate to expect clubs to ostracize Nmecha for this, when large parts of the game are being sold to homophobes.
Yeah, the better a footballer is the more moral leeway he gets, see cases like Cristiano or Neymar. And yes, a lot of the target audience probably won't really care. So you're right that people would be less outraged if they were convinced of Nmecha as a footballer (and he probably is underrated indeed). But that doesn't change that this deserves criticism, IMO. After all, in an ideal world you shouldn't act according to moral codex because your target audience demands it but because it is the right thing to do.
Criticism is definitely valid and necessary, I fully agree with that and I think it's good that the bosses had to at least acknowledge that and in a way actively vouch for his character, instead of feigning ignorance. It's the online mob mentality that bothers me.
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Didn't see that one coming. Not exactly a typical transfer for Leverkusen, according to TM the most they ever paid for someone over 30 was €500k and €10m is quite a bit for a 31 year old, but his output has been quite good in recent years and the squad is light on grown up players, so maybe it'll work out well.
Me neither, but they do need a more experienced, consistent attacking player, and Hofmann fits the bill. I wouldn't be surprised to see him becoming one of their best players next season.
I'm positive he will. In the past, our key players were often the hit and miss type of footballers. Diaby and Demirbay first and foremost but also Adli, Bakker, etc. This season we seem to go for players with composure, disciplin, experience and consistency who are very comfortable in possession but also strong against the ball, albeit not as fast. With Xhaka, Palacios, Andrich, Hofmann, Wirtz and Hincapie there are now many players who are very good at pressing for their positions.
I expect a very different Leverkusen next season. Less patchy and 'improvised', more structured and with a 'do the easy things right before attempting the outrageous' attitude.
Watch him being their DLP in 2 years.
Is that some subtle hate against Leverkusen? Because I don't really see him as a playmaker, nor as a DM.
Nah, no hate against Leverkusen. And you are right, DLP is pushing it too far. But I can see him become a very useful 8 once his pace dies down a bit more.
How do you all see the rivalry situation in the Bundesliga next season?
Leipzig should have problems at first with the many changes. Dortmund - I do not know. I expect Leverkusen to be very strong next season.
Leipzig should have problems at first with the many changes. Dortmund - I do not know. I expect Leverkusen to be very strong next season.
As ever so often Bayern were able to build on top, so they should be running away with it.
The biggest question at Dortmund is whether all those players, who were disappointing in the first half of the season, but then quite good in the second half, will be able to maintain that level. Spoiler: some won't. So Dortmund can expect to drop quite a bit behind Bayern, but should still remain comfortably ahead of 4th place.
Leipzig, as you said, should be in for a rebuild. I'd expect them to spend the money wisely, but I think Nkunku in particular was a player, who made everyone around him a bit better than they actually are and they may have to realize that the hard way, if they expect players like Timo Werner to step up now.
If we assume that Leverkusen will be losing Frimpong and Diaby, it's going to be anyone's guess. Their entire game plan was built around counter attacking with their pace. Their form really dipped at the end, too. I remember we were discussing in this very thread whether they might challenge for a CL spot still and then they went on and couldn't win a single game.
Hofmann's signing might point into a different tactical direction and I think now could be the time for Xabi to finally separate himself from Seoane. That's as much a risk as it is an opportunity though.
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Together with Hofmann that's massive short term investment by Leverkusen's standards. Are they hoping to win something? I mean it shouldnt be necessary to compete with Union Berlin.
Spending the Wirtz money a year early.
€25m? Jesus christ
I think so far the transfers have actually been pretty frugal. €42m for Xhaka, Hofmann, Grimaldo and Arthur is pretty good value for money and the transfer sum is more or less covered by one of Diaby or Frimpong. Both are still expected to leave this season.
In general, I like the profile very much. I'm generally not a fan of buying players past 25 but in these cases, the quality is immense. I expect us be much less about individual brillance next season since most of these players are ones that make the other players better and are known for great work against the ball as well. It's also further confirmation that Alonso will adapt the playing style. We've already been much more structured and controlled under Alonso than we've been under Seoane and now we're replacing pace and athleticism with work ethic, composure and tactical discipline. I'm very much looking forward to this and expect us to be more cohesive than we've been ever since the first Bosz' season.
In general, I like the profile very much. I'm generally not a fan of buying players past 25 but in these cases, the quality is immense. I expect us be much less about individual brillance next season since most of these players are ones that make the other players better and are known for great work against the ball as well. It's also further confirmation that Alonso will adapt the playing style. We've already been much more structured and controlled under Alonso than we've been under Seoane and now we're replacing pace and athleticism with work ethic, composure and tactical discipline. I'm very much looking forward to this and expect us to be more cohesive than we've been ever since the first Bosz' season.
I mean we havent seen anything on the pitch so far indicating that Alonso will really try to implement a different style of play so I wouldnt be so sure about that. Apart from that, I really like the transfers. Hofmann is a player Ive been keen on for years for various reasons and Xhaka is one of the biggest deals for us in the last 10 years and I never wouldve guessed that such a transfer would even be possible. We have to thank his wife for that, I guess.