German Football 23/24 |

do.ob

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Crap again. I'm really losing patience with Tuchel. It's like in the past 14 years there has been a super simple litmus test for Bayern coaches: Do they know how to utilize Müller? Whenever we have been good or great in more than the last decade, he was right at the center of things. Every time he fell out of favor, we were shit sooner rather than later. And Tuchel's currently failing that one.
I still think it's Kane interpreting the no9 quite differently than e.g. Lewandowski that's having a big impact on Müller. To support that idea I could even point towards the NT, where Müller has been more or less a shadow of his club self, almost precisely since the moment Klose retired and Germany started lacking a conventional no 9.
 

saylon

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For this slow and meticulous build up, Bayern needs another ball playing midfielder alongside Kimmich and a DM, not box to box ones.
Musiala at CAM is not it, move it to the wing or sell. Only luxury players tolerable are Messi, Ronaldo and half Mbappe.
Kane is also not integrated into the team.
I don't enjoy much.. Bayern with Tuchel on the bench.
Football nowadays is all about ruthless efficiency. This slow shite is a downgrade for Bayern.
Tuchel was asking for a defensive minded central midfielder that could hold the ball under pressure the whole summer.
But Hoeneß decided that with Laimer there are enough central midfielders in the squad.
 

Reij

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I can tell where the ball is going 3 seconds before it happens.

I wanted to say.. hope for PK or Musiala moment. And it happened.
 

Blackwidow

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I still think it's Kane interpreting the no9 quite differently than e.g. Lewandowski that's having a big impact on Müller. To support that idea I could even point towards the NT, where Müller has been more or less a shadow of his club self, almost precisely since the moment Klose retired and Germany started lacking a conventional no 9.
Right now he is - but that is more because Tuchel's tactics are based on Kane and the 3 dribblers a somewhat replication of Kane and Son - just that Bayern is not Tottenham and Tottenham out of reason no EPL top club...

But that is a tactic that will not work on the long run... and until now Müller hardly got minutes - there was not even a big chance that Kane could adapt in a real centre forward position with this team (he does not get any service there like today) or that Müller could really adapt to Kane and help him to adapt.

I thought it was funny how Sammer and Klose after the match at Amazon prime somewhat lectured Tuchel about how special Müller and his way to play was...
 

Zehner

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Didn't Kane himself say in interviews that Tuchel wants him to play more like a classic #9 and be less involved than in Tottenham? Maybe that's even tactical indiscipline on his part?
 

do.ob

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Right now he is - but that is more because Tuchel's tactics are based on Kane and the 3 dribblers a somewhat replication of Kane and Son - just that Bayern is not Tottenham and Tottenham out of reason no EPL top club...

But that is a tactic that will not work on the long run... and until now Müller hardly got minutes - there was not even a big chance that Kane could adapt in a real centre forward position with this team (he does not get any service there like today) or that Müller could really adapt to Kane and help him to adapt.

I thought it was funny how Sammer and Klose after the match at Amazon prime somewhat lectured Tuchel about how special Müller and his way to play was...
I don't think Tuchel is asking Kane to drift around with 30(?) touches per game, mostly playing nothing passes.
 

Blackwidow

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Didn't Kane himself say in interviews that Tuchel wants him to play more like a classic #9 and be less involved than in Tottenham? Maybe that's even tactical indiscipline on his part?
I do not see Kane as fault in all this. He should play more like a no. 9 - but that does not work with the 3 dribblers. They are individualists.
 

do.ob

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Would have been funnier if this had been reported yesterday.
 

GhastlyHun

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I do not see Kane as fault in all this. He should play more like a no. 9 - but that does not work with the 3 dribblers. They are individualists.
I'm sounding like a broken record here, but this problem is *crying out* for Thomas Müller to solve it
 

do.ob

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Nominating Führich and Behrens, because they had 5 minutes of good form, feels a bit random. So does Andrich, but the team is lacking in defensive midfielders, so I guess it's fair to try new options.
Considering the DFL found it reasonable to schedule Dortmund for the Friday fixture, when Die Mannschaft returns from their US tour on Thursday, I can't complain about any Dortmund player missing out, but I think similarly to Havertz Nagelsmann should string Can along until the summer, hoping he'll happen to hit some form until then.
 

GhastlyHun

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Nominating Führich and Behrens, because they had 5 minutes of good form, feels a bit random. So does Andrich, but the team is lacking in defensive midfielders, so I guess it's fair to try new options.
Considering the DFL found it reasonable to schedule Dortmund for the Friday fixture, when Die Mannschaft returns from their US tour on Thursday, I can't complain about any Dortmund player missing out, but I think similarly to Havertz Nagelsmann should string Can along until the summer, hoping he'll happen to hit some form until then.
With the depicted lineup we could probably win things.
 

do.ob

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With the depicted lineup we could probably win things.
I don't know, that midfield looks a bit off balance.

The state of fair play in football:


Mats Hummels got a weekly award for not complaining about getting a clear foul called against him. To round it off it ended up being a debatable VAR call, too. :lol:
 

uamini

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Nominating Führich and Behrens, because they had 5 minutes of good form, feels a bit random. So does Andrich, but the team is lacking in defensive midfielders, so I guess it's fair to try new options.
Considering the DFL found it reasonable to schedule Dortmund for the Friday fixture, when Die Mannschaft returns from their US tour on Thursday, I can't complain about any Dortmund player missing out, but I think similarly to Havertz Nagelsmann should string Can along until the summer, hoping he'll happen to hit some form until then.
That roster is starting to remind me of the horrendous squad they sent to North America in 1999. ^^

Lehmann, Enke
Wörns, Heinrich, Linke, Doğan, Matthäus, Baumann
Maul, Scholl, Wosz, Ballack, Schneider, Gerber, Ricken, Heldt
Marschall, Preetz, Neuville, Rink

Then again that generation somehow managed to reach the World Cup final 3 years later so maybe we should feel positive about 2026.
 

Zehner

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I don't see the squad that negative really. It seems Nagelsmann is prioritizing positional experience over general quality with the nominations of Behrens, Andrich and Füllkrug. That's what many people were hoping for. So we probably get one or two starters who will work hard to prove they deserve to be there and take their chance and then have a lot of high quality competition in other positions.

Especially the AM is absolutely packed with quality: Müller, Brandt, Musiala, Wirtz, Sane and Hofmann. I don't think tthere areany teams with similar quality around..
 

stefan92

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I don't see the squad that negative really. It seems Nagelsmann is prioritizing positional experience over general quality with the nominations of Behrens, Andrich and Füllkrug. That's what many people were hoping for. So we probably get one or two starters who will work hard to prove they deserve to be there and take their chance and then have a lot of high quality competition in other positions.

Especially the AM is absolutely packed with quality: Müller, Brandt, Musiala, Wirtz, Sane and Hofmann. I don't think tthere areany teams with similar quality around..
Of course you like the squad, this is likely the biggest amount of Leverkusen players in a long time?

But kidding aside, I do agree that this looks like a good squad. Players who are in good form and for every position. No need for weird experiments with player in unusual positions etc.

In the end Nagelsmann has to win the Euro, that's what he signed for and what he is optimising his chances for. Give everyone a chance who is on a good run so that you comfortably can choose the players that are at their best right before the tournament. Don't use the preparation to get long term members of the squad back into form, just take the best at the time and go for it. To me it feels like Nagelsmann does understand this.
 

Zehner

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Of course you like the squad, this is likely the biggest amount of Leverkusen players in a long time?

But kidding aside, I do agree that this looks like a good squad. Players who are in good form and for every position. No need for weird experiments with player in unusual positions etc.

In the end Nagelsmann has to win the Euro, that's what he signed for and what he is optimising his chances for. Give everyone a chance who is on a good run so that you comfortably can choose the players that are at their best right before the tournament. Don't use the preparation to get long term members of the squad back into form, just take the best at the time and go for it. To me it feels like Nagelsmann does understand this.
I would definitely love it if a Leverkusen bench player starts for Germany :D

That aside, I really think the focus should be on fielding a functional team again, not necessarily the best individual one. And it seems as if this currently means playing seemingly underwhelming names in a few positions. But if they put in the necessary work and star players battle each other for key positions that means that the players on the pitch are either highly motivated to prove themselves or are need to present themselves in top form if they don't want to lose this privilege.

My primary worry is that Nagelsmann may be too idealistic for a project with such a short horizon and/or tries playing a system that doesn't fit the players. I really don't see tbis team being successful with the football he played at Bayern. Our best players are subtile and technical, no physically imposing pressing machines who can overwhelm opponents with their intensity..
 

Swarm

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What the actual feck is going on with this Guirassy lad? :D
 

Swarm

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In all seriousness though, while I believe it is mostly a purple patch for Guirassy, Stuttgart are remarkably stable so far this season. Did not see this coming at all before the season.
 

do.ob

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In all seriousness though, while I believe it is mostly a purple patch for Guirassy, Stuttgart are remarkably stable so far this season. Did not see this coming at all before the season.
I won't claim to have bet on this, but Stuttgart were always playing pretty decent football and "too good" to be down there.
Last season they had that ill-fated Labbadia spell and they had pretty horrible GK performances - at least going by PSxG+/-, where they were second only to Schalke with -8.7. And so perhaps it's not surprising if I tell you that they were 8th in terms of understat's xPTS. This year Nübel seems to have fixed their issues in goal and of course Guirassy is scoring like a demon. Perhaps they also had a favourable early schedule (Bochum, Leipzig, Freiburg, Mainz, Darmstadt, Köln, Wolfsburg), too. So in hindsight it can be explained to a degree.
 

stefan92

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I won't claim to have bet on this, but Stuttgart were always playing pretty decent football and "too good" to be down there.
Last season they had that ill-fated Labbadia spell and they had pretty horrible GK performances - at least going by PSxG+/-, where they were second only to Schalke with -8.7. And so perhaps it's not surprising if I tell you that they were 8th in terms of understat's xPTS. This year Nübel seems to have fixed their issues in goal and of course Guirassy is scoring like a demon. Perhaps they also had a favourable early schedule (Bochum, Leipzig, Freiburg, Mainz, Darmstadt, Köln, Wolfsburg), too. So in hindsight it can be explained to a degree.
And don't forget that during Labbadia's time Guirassy was mostly injured. When he returned and Hoeneß took over as manager they were already a very strong team at the end of last season. And as you say adding Nübel to fix another issue is not surprising to see them even more improved.
 

Swarm

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After their very respectable first season after promotion I expected them to do very well the season after (so last season) and for whatever reason it never really came together. And since they appeared to have lost some very highly rated players my hopes had diminished quite a lot. Happy for them to be doing so well now though, will be interesting to see, how well they can keep this up. Especially considering their easy schedule thus far.
 

do.ob

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Have Kicker messed up the tactical lineup or are Hertha really playing with two RBs? I mean Zeefuik isn't that attacking a player, is he?

 

stefan92

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Have Kicker messed up the tactical lineup or are Hertha really playing with two RBs? I mean Zeefuik isn't that attacking a player, is he?

It's Pal Dardai who is managing them and I would not be surprised if this is indeed true. If any manager would field two RB it would be him and looking at Hertha's results I wouldn't even argue about it.
 

do.ob

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It's Pal Dardai who is managing them and I would not be surprised if this is indeed true. If any manager would field two RB it would be him and looking at Hertha's results I wouldn't even argue about it.
To be fair Dardai's options for that position are also limited: Dardai is injured and Dardai has been more of an impact sub so far. Winkler started against St. Pauli, but he got subbed off at half time, so I guess he either wasn't very good or he had a little injury.
It seems to be working alright so far, too. I guess when you play in Gelsenkirchen it may be reasonable to start a little bit more defensively until their (and the fans') enthusiasm wears off a bit.









What a shitty goal :lol:
 
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stefan92

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To be fair Dardai's options for that position are also limited: Dardai is injured and Dardai has been more of an impact sub so far. Winkler started against St. Pauli, but he got subbed off at half time, so I guess he either wasn't very good or he had a little injury.
It seems to be working alright so far, too. I guess when you play in Gelsenkirchen it may be reasonable to start a little bit more defensively until their (and the fans') enthusiasm wears off a bit.









What a shitty goal :lol:
As I said, I wouldn't argue with it. Hertha recently scoring and conceding lots of goals make it look sensible to choose a more defensive team.
 

do.ob

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This game is awesome and Dardai is a genius.
 

do.ob

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Schalke have announced their new coach:


He coached Union St. Gillois last year. Almost won the league, had a respectable EL showing. I've read he left over wage demands after the season. I have no idea about his football, but conisdering their other options would have been random 2nd division coaches this is probably quite a hopeful moment. On the other hand their defense seems pretty atrocious individually, so while I expect them to bounce out of the relegation zone quite quickly, I'm afraid they'll do well to keep expectations moderate and see this as build up for next season.
 

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Come home, Matthias.
Matthias Tell. Would love it.
I’m quite surprised his hype hasn’t gone international yet. The kid is so incredibly good.
 

do.ob

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Pure clickbait. I believe he would have to live in Germnay for at least 8(?) years in order to qualify.
I'm pretty sure politicians would be flexible if necessary and as far as I'm aware even the law specifies exceptions for that requirement.
I don't see how this would get past FIFA's rules however, unless they dig up some German ancestry.
 
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stefan92

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I'm pretty sure politicians would be flexible if necessary and as far as I'm aware even the law specifies exceptions for that requirement.
I don't see how this would get past FIFA's rules however, unless they dig up some German ancestry.
He did not yet play for France so FIFA would not care, that would be no problem. But it will likely not happen because the necessary time to wait is simply to big.
 

Acrobat7

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He did not yet play for France so FIFA would not care, that would be no problem. But it will likely not happen because the necessary time to wait is simply to big.
I would also rather play for France and win stuff than play for the current German team...