German Football 23/24 |

FootballHQ

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Are Bayern getting a new keeper in or is Neuer back soon? Ulreich in goal can't be a long term option so I assume they have something lined up if they were happy selling Sommer on. Unless that 6m just went to increasing the Kane fee?
 

WeePat

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Like Chelsea before they signed Lukaku?
Yeah fair point. That is word for word what people said when we signed Lukaku. But Kane’s playmaking and being part of the chance creating process is in a different stratosphere to Lukaku. Depends on how Tuchel uses him though. I’ve not seen Kane drop deep much in this game.
 

Betson

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Did Kane get a touch of the ball today?

Long season ahead , he will surely pick up silverware this season.

Kim looked good in his cameo , could be one we will regret not going all out for.
 

Baxquux

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He will land somewhere eventually.
German football somehow seems a good fit ( instinctively, despite my limited knowledge of the BL) but then again I don't really know who... e.g. not likely to be Leipzig anytime soon, or Dortmund...
 

Zehner

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Yeah fair point. That is word for word what people said when we signed Lukaku. But Kane’s playmaking and being part of the chance creating process is in a different stratosphere to Lukaku. Depends on how Tuchel uses him though. I’ve not seen Kane drop deep much in this game.
Yeah, it was a bit tongue in cheek. Kane is an excellent player. I just think that Bayern has more issues than that. People expect them to dominate the league in the way they did since 2013 but building such a team in the current market would probably cost a billion. They simply lack the quality of the previous era in many positions. Lewandowski, Thiago, Robben, Ribery, Lahm, Boateng and Hummels had much greater quality than the players they have in their respective positions now. And I actually think this type of quality is unattainable for them now. Even Kane cost them upwards of €100m and they would theoretically need four or five of these transfers to become as good as they used to be.

And although their quality was still good enough the last few years, I think the runner ups actually did their homework and have assembled their best teams in years through smart business. I'm not sure at this point if player for player, Bayern is still significantly better than Dortmund.
 

do.ob

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German football somehow seems a good fit ( instinctively, despite my limited knowledge of the BL) but then again I don't really know who... e.g. not likely to be Leipzig anytime soon, or Dortmund...
German football swims in coaches on Potter's level and whenever there is a shortage clubs can turn to traditional 'feeder' countries like Austria, Switzerland, Holland or even Denmark. It doesn't seem likely at all that anyone would feel the need to pay Potter a PL-level wage. He would have to want to join Bundesliga so badly, that he'd be willing to lower his wages, just to make it happen and even then the language barrier would probably keep most clubs from picking him.
 
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strongwalker

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It was definitely Didi. It was the main commentator I was not too sure about.
Didi went around a few very strange corners :D he does a lot of guest commentary and seems to make it his brand to have weird opinions about everything :D

The game: That went well didnt it :houllier:. Tuchel has his work cut out for him. From his post-match commentary, there seems to be a wild discrepancy between performance, but also play style, between training and match. Definitely not a problem you can solve by telling Pavard to play 5m higher or so.

This team still is a very much a head case. One reason may be team power structure. Neuer and Müller may have lost influence due to their individual situations, and the 28 year old generation has failed to step up to the challenge so far (maybe also because the "old" alphas are still there), also due to lacklustre individual performances. Kimmich tries to be everywhere and ends up being nowhere, Goretzka and Gnabry had huge swings in form. Dont get me even started about Sane who is only consistent in his inconsistency and who doesnt strike me as a natural leader, but so doesn't Müller, the classroom clown rarely is, so what do i know..

Having an experienced leader/captain type, whichKane allegedly is, may help a lot. Getting a true #6 as well. This would mean one of the #8 being surplus, most likely Goretzka, but there is conflict potential, as Kimmich/Gnabry/Goretzka + Sane go way back together and are a tight group and claim the leading role, but all those discussions surrounding those three, both in the national team and at Bayern, definitely don't help. I wonder if we can convince Xabi Alonso to join and put on boots for a while :D
 
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do.ob

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Essen vs Hamburg has turned into a lively game. Essen set up two Hamburg goals with catastrophic turnovers during build up, but they have come back both times and now they have come up with some attacking ideas of their own (which will probably end up giving Hamburg a goal on the counter, but still).
 

kaiser1

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The transfers between the top teams show how messed up the Bundesliga is; Bayern take 2 good players from Dortmund and Leipzig for nothing, while Dortmund pay them £19m for a player they don’t want.

On another note Leipzig look like they’ve done reasonable business, including 2 highly rated forwards
Could it be that those 2 players were out of contract and free for anyone to take? Should Chelsea sign DDG who would be to blame?
 

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Am I seeing correctly that, for the cup, every team from the 1. Bundesliga that played a team from the 3. Bundesliga played away and lost? Viktoria Köln beat Werder 3-2, Bielefeld beat Bochum after penalties (didn't know Bielefeld had made it that far down!), and Unterhaching beat Augsburg 2-0. Hoffenheim must be worried about their match in Lübeck tomorrow...
 
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Swarm

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Seems like you are correct. In the first round of the cup the lower league team will always be playing at home so there is no coincidence there.
 

stefan92

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Am I seeing correctly that, for the cup, every team from the 1. Bundesliga that played a team from the 3. Bundesliga played away and lost? Viktoria Köln beat Werder 3-2, Bielefeld beat Bochum after penalties (didn't know Bielefeld had made it that far down!), and Unterhaching beat Augsburg 2-0. Hoffenheim must be worried about their match against in Lübeck tomorrow...
It really was a good decision to have the 3rd league and 2nd league start earlier than the first - gives them some extra media attention and creates a much more interesting first cup round, as they are already in full steam and not still getting into a flow.
 

do.ob

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Am I seeing correctly that, for the cup, every team from the 1. Bundesliga that played a team from the 3. Bundesliga played away and lost? Viktoria Köln beat Werder 3-2, Bielefeld beat Bochum after penalties (didn't know Bielefeld had made it that far down!), and Unterhaching beat Augsburg 2-0. Hoffenheim must be worried about their match against in Lübeck tomorrow...
In the first two rounds they make one pot with the Bundesliga teams and most clubs from the second division and draw them against the lower half. And only from the third round (ro16) onwards there is an free draw. Amateur teams also always get to play at home by default against professional sides.

So it's no coincidence that all of them had to play away from home. And it's not unusual to see one or two Bundesliga sides fall in the early rounds, in part, because the lower leagues start their seasons earlier and have a bit more match fitness for the first round.
Though this year it feels like there are more teams in trouble than usual.
 

do.ob

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Berlin's transfer strategy is so fascinating.
 

strongwalker

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Are Bayern getting a new keeper in or is Neuer back soon? Ulreich in goal can't be a long term option so I assume they have something lined up if they were happy selling Sommer on. Unless that 6m just went to increasing the Kane fee?
According to latest news he will be back next year the earliest. They keep communication as low as they can but Neuer started training outside, then a few days later he had another surgery. Guess he started too soon and is back to square 2 if not 1.

Management is now tasked with finding a keeper who is an upgrade on Ullreich but won't complain when (if) Neuer comes back and he gets benched. This killed the interest in some of the younger targeted keepers.

Kepa was as good as signed and player presentation was scheduled, says Dreesen, then Courtois tore his cruciate ligament and he went to Madrid for a guaranteed 9 months instead of 3-6.

Now it is said some members of the task force :) are having second thoughts about the "willing to take the back seat once Neuer is back" requirement since some feel Neuer has to blame himself for the situation.
Lloris is one of the names that get tossed around, de Gea is another one but both are deemed unlikely due to salary requests. Sevillas Bono is a candidate as was Rulli from Ajax, who also injured himself and is now out.
 
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Blackwidow

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According to latest news he will be back next year the earliest. They keep communication as low as they can but Neuer started training outside, then a few days later he had another surgery. Guess he started too soon and is back to square 2 if not 1.
That is the most "negative" you can read as speculation in the press.
Others speak from start of October.

I am absolutely not sure what really the thing is.
 

strongwalker

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That is the most "negative" you can read as speculation in the press.
Others speak from start of October.

I am absolutely not sure what really the thing is.
i read some at bayern decry being left in the dark about Neuers condition. I wonder how that could be, given he is treated by the clubs medical team and i imagine doctor-client privilege doesnt apply or is waived.
 

Zehner

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According to latest news he will be back next year the earliest. They keep communication as low as they can but Neuer started training outside, then a few days later he had another surgery. Guess he started too soon and is back to square 2 if not 1.

Management is now tasked with finding a keeper who is an upgrade on Ullreich but won't complain when (if) Neuer comes back and he gets benched. This killed the interest in some of the younger targeted keepers.

Kepa was as good as signed and player presentation was scheduled, says Dreesen, then Courtois tore his cruciate ligament and he went to Madrid for a guaranteed 9 months instead of 3-6.

Now it is said some members of the task force :) are having second thoughts about the "willing to take the back seat once Neuer is back" requirement since some feel Neuer has to blame himself for the situation.
Lloris is one of the names that get tossed around, de Gea is another one but both are deemed unlikely due to salary requests. Sevillas Bono is a candidate as was Rulli from Ajax, who also injured himself and is now out.
Neuer will be almost 38 years old when he returns and in the past he's taken some time to get back to his best after long injuries if I'm not mistaken. At this point, you have to question why the club is that loyal to him, especially given the circumstances of his injuries and the rumoured clash wie Nagelsmann. Better late than never I guess but you could very well argue that they could have admitted this to themselves months ago.

I mean, I get he's a club icon but a) he brought that upon himself and b) he should understand that the club can only prioritize the interests of a club icon above its own to a certain degree. If he really is disappointed with the officials when they sign real competition for him on a longer contract after he's broken his leg on a private skiing trip at 36 years of age and ruled himself out for an uncertain and seemingly ever-growing amount of time, then he doesn't deserve that kind of pampering anyway.
 

Kasper

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What's up with the title? Bayern aren't playing today?
 

do.ob

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What's up with the title? Bayern aren't playing today?
Good point, some idiot probably just looked at the Tuesday and assumed it followed right after the other first round games.
 

do.ob

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Also linked with Volland and Bonucci.
 

uamini

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Also linked with Volland and Bonucci.
Hmm, this stage is usually much harder to achieve than "let's overachieve with a bunch of no-names and clever tactics"....it's pretty difficult to manage to keep the team's wage structure intact considering they most likely won't be playing in the Champions League every year. Their squad looks good on paper though and they should do well this year.
 

do.ob

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Hmm, this stage is usually much harder to achieve than "let's overachieve with a bunch of no-names and clever tactics"....it's pretty difficult to manage to keep the team's wage structure intact considering they most likely won't be playing in the Champions League every year. Their squad looks good on paper though and they should do well this year.
I don't think Volland and Bonucci would be a huge issue in that regard. They are quite old already, so I expect them to be cheaper than one would expect and to get maybe only 12 or 24 month contracts. Gosens is another matter, a five year contract for a 29 year old wingback, who I assume won't age very well once his athleticism starts to decline.
Maybe they will keep him as a one-off player with a special status in the wage hierarchy. I mean most players they sign are rather obscure ones and I can't recall a top performer, who signed a (meaningful) contract extension.

The real question is, will they move for Maguire next summer?
 
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do.ob

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Are Bayern trying to keep things interesting for another year? ;)
 

hasanejaz88

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Are Bayern trying to keep things interesting for another year? ;)
Getting nightmares of Ulreich versus Madrid in 17/18. Jokes aside, he's mostly been a very capable number 2 so it's good to see them keeping faith in him.

The 'Kimmich isn't a number 6' debate is interesting. While Kimmich definitely isn't a pure number 6 in the way Casemiro, Rice and Busquests are, he's certainly capable of playing that role alongside a box to box type midfielder. Essentially, that was the combination Bayern were going for with Kimmich-Goretzka, and worked well the first couple of seasons but Goretzka's form has dipped with his injuries.

If Bayern want to go with a formation where they need a pure DM, then Kimmich there would be a waste because he has great qualities going forward. I don't see how they can't fit him in a double pivot with Goretzka/Laimer, similar to Schweinsteiger/Khedira for Germany.

Maybe the issue is also with who plays as the third central midfielder. Having someone like Musiala or Muller, who won't help with running back to defend. That is why we saw the trend of playing with two number 8s with a number 6 rather than a number 10, which is what Bayern essentially have. Ultimately, I don't think the biggest issue Bayern faced last season was a lack of a pure number 6, even against Leipzig the biggest issue was there lack of finishing.
 

Blackwidow

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Getting nightmares of Ulreich versus Madrid in 17/18. Jokes aside, he's mostly been a very capable number 2 so it's good to see them keeping faith in him.

The 'Kimmich isn't a number 6' debate is interesting. While Kimmich definitely isn't a pure number 6 in the way Casemiro, Rice and Busquests are, he's certainly capable of playing that role alongside a box to box type midfielder. Essentially, that was the combination Bayern were going for with Kimmich-Goretzka, and worked well the first couple of seasons but Goretzka's form has dipped with his injuries.

If Bayern want to go with a formation where they need a pure DM, then Kimmich there would be a waste because he has great qualities going forward. I don't see how they can't fit him in a double pivot with Goretzka/Laimer, similar to Schweinsteiger/Khedira for Germany.

Maybe the issue is also with who plays as the third central midfielder. Having someone like Musiala or Muller, who won't help with running back to defend. That is why we saw the trend of playing with two number 8s with a number 6 rather than a number 10, which is what Bayern essentially have. Ultimately, I don't think the biggest issue Bayern faced last season was a lack of a pure number 6, even against Leipzig the biggest issue was there lack of finishing.
A lineup with Müller (and probably same with Musiala) is not more dangerous because of his positioning and commanding of the press. We get less goals against with Müller than without him - much better than any 4-3-3 we had - and that is a trend for years now.

The problem is that Kimmich as a 6 is not trying to play it easy but searches for the superduper pass forward and holds the ball to long - he makes it easy for the opponent to work against him. He has more possession losses than Müller or Musiala have who have a position and job in which they are supposed to take risks. (and they do so further away from their own goal)

And the problem right now is that we e.g. at Saturday were playing with just 3 players who were good in the air. Laimer is catastrophic there with a 15% successrate - Kimmich not much better.
 
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