I suppose we've finally found a tactic Bayern can work with, just need every opposition to try and play on the front foot against them now. Might be good news for the UCL, where you can expect some of the bigger teams to try and attack them, though would be interesting to see this against an Italian side.
German Football 23/24 |
- Thread starter do.ob
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Considering we are missing Kimmich, Goretzka, Gnabry, Coman, Mazraoui Anna de Ligt it's not surprising we are playing a little bit more cautious.
3:0
3:0
Keep em coming
Kim with goal, assist and disallowed goal.
Wow.
Wow.
Didn't look like a corner to me.
Some show from Musiala
That is because Pavlovic is fecking amazingConsidering we are missing Kimmich, Goretzka, Gnabry, Coman, Mazraoui Anna de Ligt it's not surprising we are playing a little bit more cautious.
3:0
He is good, was already good in his cameo in Dortmund.
But first and foremost it's an excellent team effort.
Elephant in the room of course being that Bayern is worse with, and better without, Kimmich..
Some thoughts:
The day Neuer retires will be a sad day. Even this version of him is almost impossible to replace.
Davies will/should be sold. He has been underwhelming for a long time. No progression and he can only solve situations with his (admittedly crazy) speed/quickness.
We need a RB.
I am thankful to have Guerreiro and Laimer. Great squad players.
Pavlovic deserves minutes. Great game by him. Nobody would be able to tell his age and inexperience.
De Ligt has an uphill battle to crack the starting lineup. There obviously will be a rotation, but Kim and Upa gel nicely.
The day Neuer retires will be a sad day. Even this version of him is almost impossible to replace.
Davies will/should be sold. He has been underwhelming for a long time. No progression and he can only solve situations with his (admittedly crazy) speed/quickness.
We need a RB.
I am thankful to have Guerreiro and Laimer. Great squad players.
Pavlovic deserves minutes. Great game by him. Nobody would be able to tell his age and inexperience.
De Ligt has an uphill battle to crack the starting lineup. There obviously will be a rotation, but Kim and Upa gel nicely.
Let‘s wait and see if they go for Palhinha in the winter window.
That's what Bayern should do. There was barely any(if any) progression in the last three years. It's a bit sad, but cashing in on him seems to be the best choice for the club.
Same but with Müller
Müller is a legend of this club, but he isnt better than Sané, Musiala, Coman or Kane. If these 4 are fit, Müllers place has to be on the bench imo.
I agree, both undoubtedly absolute club legends. But, as @BayernFan87 stated, on the pitch he is no longer a starter. Neuer is probably still a top 5 keeper on this planet.
And to think back and remember all those "Koan Neuer" protests by the fans when he was signed on...
I also remember many here on Redcafe being critical of his very proactive keeping style back then. I remember so, so many comments calling it out as being "suicidal" and "will cost Bayern when he inevitably makes mistakes". It took years of him showing his quality, Bayern winning the CL and Germany the world cup, as well as other keepers adopting a more active approach before those voices started subsiding considerably.
I have always enjoyed his play a lot, and while he might not be the world's best anymore his quality is still immense.
Sadly true. I've been so excited with him back when his career took off, but he has hardly improved at all since then. Remarkable speed, but little else of note. If he is not given the room to use his speed he is very unremarkable and defensively he just isn't strong enough at anything that isn't chasing down runners.
The problem is just... who to buy who is an improvement? Quality wide defenders always seem to be rare in supply and sought after.
Give Krätzig minutes to see what you got and try for Dimarco from Inter?
All the really interesting ones are at clubs that won’t sell: PSG, Barca, Spurs…
Adam Aznou, the 17 years old left back is maybe the biggest talent in our youth teams.
Next summer may be too early for him but Id bet good money on it that this kid will have a great career.
He is just not an as good dribbler and has 2 or 3 km/h less top speed - something he always had in his career - if that was a criteria he would not have made his career...
He was topscorer in the first half of the calendar year - and has more assists and goals than Coman and Musiala in the calendar year with 700 or 800 minutes less - having had health problems in the first some months and lacking match rhythm.
He has as created as many big chances from open play in the Bundesliga as Sane who is the best - Müller with 430 minutes, Sane with 1240...
There is not worse than them... - you can only discuss about playing style or what you or Tuchel prefers... - the story is that Müller should have far more match time.
I'm not sure Krätzig is quite ready yet for a being the primary pick on the position yet. But it certainly would be worthwile to give him more minutes this season to see how he well he is doing in the BL and CL. I haven't really watched him outside of his few minutes for Bayern this season and the U20 world cup, but so far my impression was more amongst the lines of solid upper half Bundesliga starter than a future international top class player, though I'll be happy to be shown that I underestimated him.
Dimarco... not so sure that he'd be what Bayern wants either. He looks amazing going forward, oftentimes he feels more like another winger than a leftback, but his defensive abilities looked rather unimpressive. Comparing their stats on fbref seems to confirm that impression, Davies has him beat in most defensive categories.
You can't judge Coman and especially Musiala only by their scorers. How many dangerous situations does Musiala create out of nothing by turning around his opponents and immediately dribbling towards goal? How often do Comans and Musialas dribblings open up space for their team mates because 2 or 3 opponents need to focus on them?
Müller is still a valuable player but it's not like he set the world on fire in his limited game time this season. Yesterday was arguably his best game and the most impact he had since his assist for Tel against Kopenhagen. And even in this game Kane and Sané were definitely better than Müller and Musiala also in my opinion.
You said the others are simply better dribblers but thats a quality we rely on in 90% of our games.
In games like yesterday with an opponent that plays attacking football we have much space and this is where Müller can still shine with his intelligent runs and passes.
In most games however where the opponent just parks the bus in front of goal and Müller doesn't really have anywhere to run to he can't contribute as much to the team as the others. You need players (especially wingers) capable of winning their 1:1 or 1:2 duels in these games.
Let's take a look at some websites rating teams and players:
- https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/37/Show/Germany-Bayern-Munich (Müller on rank 13, the 4 attacking players I mentioned are the best rated players in our team)
- https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/54/stats/season/20946/players/rating/team/9823/bayern-munchen-players (Müller 12th, Sané Kane, Musiala, Coman in the top 6)
- https://www.kicker.de/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/topspieler (Müller not in the rating because he didnt play enough but again Sané, Kane and Musiala on top)
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Pretty decent draw for the German teams in the CL, especially regarding a potential top 2 finish in the nations ranking (checking for a friend):
Lazio vs Bayern - should end with an Italian team eliminated early
PSV vs Dortmund - they are Dutch, how hard can it be??
Napoli vs Barca and Inter vs Atletico are two Italy vs Spain duels.
PSG should favoured to take out Real Sociedad!?
Not sure what will happen in the EL and ECL though, where Freiburg face Lens and Frankfurt Union Saint-Gilloise.
Müller started his career being criminally underrated. So it’s just fitting that he will finish it the same way.
The only two close games in my opinion.
I can't tell if you're mocking Dortmund.
Wishful thinking aside: Realistically all German teams except Bayern Munich and Bayer Leverkusen will be eliminated in the next round.
Freiburg never performs against opponents of other top 5 leagues. Frankfurt will have players away for Africa cup, plus will have to integrate potential new signings from the winter transfer window. And they've been just miserable this season so far.
Leipzig obvious underdogs against Real Madrid and then there's Dortmund where you just know they'll bottle it against a team that has won all (!) League games so far in this season.
Freiburg never performs against opponents of other top 5 leagues. Frankfurt will have players away for Africa cup, plus will have to integrate potential new signings from the winter transfer window. And they've been just miserable this season so far.
Leipzig obvious underdogs against Real Madrid and then there's Dortmund where you just know they'll bottle it against a team that has won all (!) League games so far in this season.
Surely, SURELY, Dortmund can not get kicked out of CL by a Eredivisie side managed by... Peter Bosz?
With some for sure. He probably would never have made the career he made when they would have the say.
When you see this views you ask yourself how Bayern could be so successful with him in the line-up so many years - somebody who is not fast, cannot dribble etc.
He has a knack for embarrassing Dortmund in the CL.
this. Also: Müllers ball win before the 1:0. Had it been Kane, everyone would have marvelled about it, with Müller, it is just an ordinary Müller thing....
Are you guys really thinking PSV will be a walkover for Dortmund? Dortmund aren't in great from while PSV are, and Dortmund's setup is probably a decent fit for PSV (basically anything that's not a low block and not much better quality would be). So it seems to me like this is a pretty even tie.
I mean, Dortmund obviously could have gotten a much worse opponent, but same for PSV.
Probably not a walkover. On paper Dortmund is stronger, and they've come in first in a group that I'd argue was harder than Eindhoven's group (PSG, AC Milano, Newcastle vs. Arsenal, Lens, Sevilla). So I'd certainly give Dortmund the advantage there. But their form in the league has been a bit dodgy recently with two draws and a loss, so I guess nerves might very well be a factor. PSV meanwhile is doing great in their league. Overall I'd say advantage Dortmund, but not a huge one.
On an unrelated note, Bayern just announced Mueller's new contract, he's now bound until '25. Very happy with that, he keeps showing how important he is for the team, both on the pitch as well as outside of it.
I don't think I said anything of the kind. The press will demand a win, but there haven't been a lot of easy games for Dortmund lately. I chuckled a bit at the bolded part though, because Terzic has been getting a lot of criticism for playing too defensive football and it has been somewhat effective in the CL, too. So if nothing changes in the interim I'd expect Dortmund to sit deep and hit PSV with long balls to Füllkrug coupled with Adeyemi/Bynoe-Gittens and of course the Dutch legend trying to run into gaps.
The Dutch legend haha, not a fan of Malen? Thought he was decent for you.
The more we talk Dortmund up now the more we can laugh when they inevitably fail.
I don't think Malen is a player anyone loves or hates. He's just there.
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Honestly think he could be terrific in a functioning team. 14 goal contributions in 913 minutes in the second half of 22/23 is great impact and 5 goals in 866 minutes this season isn't too bad either for a wide forward considering the circumstances. In the recent Augsburg match he had quite a few very good plays apart from his goal. If the team finds the form of early to mid 23 again and/or they install a new and more progressive manager, I imagine he'll be much more impressive.
Haha never loved or hated him at PSV either. Was pretty good for us although he missed too many chances.
He's not a bad player, but he doesn't have the composure and decision making to be a top player. Save for that last minute counter attack on an empty goal against Gladbach he recorded 0 goals or assists between September 16th and December 16th. During that period he was in the squad for 10 Bundesliga, 6 CL and 2 cup games. The team could do better to set him up, but always "almost" or "unlucky" is a lack of quality at some point.