Musiala is overrated, he needs to be benched
German Football 23/24 |
- Thread starter do.ob
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Agree. Bayern has better results this year but actually the performances are worse.
Neither Leverkusen or Lazio would stand a chance against the previous Bayern teams
I think the last good Bayern team was the Flick one and even there is an argument to be had that it could also have been a flash in the pan during a freakish season. Plus there's also the thin squad Tuchel had to deal with. I have the feeling he's already finished but it also seems as if his tenure was predestined to fail considering the circumstances of his appointment as well how you screwed up the summer window.
Agree that squad was too thin. Firing Salihamidzic without having a replacement was an huge mistake.
Like @es-muellert said Brazzo didn't do a bad job. He became unpopular because he fell out with Flick and many believed he was the reason Flick left.
Tuchel didn't win over the team like Flick, Heynckes or now Alonso at Leverkusen did. He didn't establish a core that guaranteed stability. Of course the many injuries didn't help.
However, his treatment of Müller, Kimmich, Goretzka or de Ligt leave huge question marks about his man management skills.
Like @es-muellert said Brazzo didn't do a bad job. He became unpopular because he fell out with Flick and many believed he was the reason Flick left.
Tuchel didn't win over the team like Flick, Heynckes or now Alonso at Leverkusen did. He didn't establish a core that guaranteed stability. Of course the many injuries didn't help.
However, his treatment of Müller, Kimmich, Goretzka or de Ligt leave huge question marks about his man management skills.
There shouldn't have been any question marks, he was known to cause trouble within the squad and management wherever he went, which was why he was sacked from his past 3 clubs despite having more than decent records.
His scapegoating of the players is very reminiscent of what Jose did here during his time. Although in hindsight it's interesting to see who he was right about but certainly players like Rashford, Shaw and Martial found form after he left.
I can understand criticism of Gnabry and Goretzka but the criticism of Kimmich just boggles me, he hasn't been that bad at all but Tuchel has managed to successfully turn a lot of fanbase against him to the point them wanting him to be sold, which would have been insane to consider last summer.
If the dressing room leak is true then that sheds a very bad light on his man management as well or at least that the pressure gets to him. But I think he had already lost the Nagelsmann 'loyalists' when he started at Bayern.
From the outside, it generally seems as if either the pressure the last seasons was higher than usual or that the new faces don't cope with it as well. Kahn and Salhamidzic also lost the plot.
He fell out with the upper ups of the clubs. I don't remember he had issues with his players. At least not at the level he has now at Munich.
Actually I was very surprised that he got along pretty well with divas at PSG.
The criticism of Kimmich started with press when he refused to get vaccinated. That's when all started. Then the poor world cup where Kimmich was supposed to be a s leader.
Next was ongoing criticism of his standards which actually isn't supported by facts.
So Tuchel didn't start it. His comments about Kimmich not being a classic holding six didn't help either.
The treatment of de Ligt is mind boggling though.
The sacking of Nagelsmann wasn't thought through and a mistake.
He certainly had a fall out with senior players at Dortmund, which contributed to him being sacked. At PSG I thought he didn't get along with Mbappe and Neymar as well, at Chelsea yes I don't think he had any falling out with players.
While Kimmich was criticized for his vaccine stance, I don't think anyone thought of selling him even then. But now going through Twitter, not the best source ofcourse, there are comments that he is overrated and should be sold.
The only player I can think was Hummels. But he left anyway.
Any sources? Didn't especially Neymar and Mbappé actually spoke highly about Tuchel? I was also surprised to read this that's why remember it pretty well.
You have to differentiate between the club Bayern and the media. I never heard anybody within the club talking about selling Kimmich.
I thought that Hoffenheim playing How Much is the Fish when scoring was random, but Koln fans sing to the tune of Loch Lomond before their games.
What?!
What?!
You have to look no further than Tuchel's last game, the cup final 2017.
He cut Sahin from the matchday squad entirely, playing Ginter in midfield instead, and this is what his captain had to say when asked about it:
"I was really shocked because I just don't understand it when a player like Julian Weigl is out. Nuri is the one who can do at least as well in this position. That's why I was very surprised that he didn't play and wasn't in the squad. I think we all know what qualities Nuri has. He always calls on them, even when he's been injured for a long time."
And when asked whether he could come up with an explanation:"No. The coach should be able to give you that. We are completely behind Nuri and know what we have in him."
They had basically the entire player council in the TV studio after the game and they all made similar comments.
And even saying "only Hummels" is quite generous to Tuchel, considering how important he was for the team.
Some decades ago it must have been en vogue to dispose of the old club anthems on matchday and replace them with something more event oriented. So pretty much everywhere it's a combination of a) some original song in the style of a very cringy and generic 80s/90s "rock" song, b) some club lyrics put on a popular tune or c) some song a pop star wrote about the city or club (formerly Hamburg, Bochum, Berlin)
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Salihamidzic did an outright horrible job. Our wage structure is a disaster and our roster is filled with overpaid underperformers. That’s all on him and his horrible work.
Didn't Hummels already moved to Bayern in 2016? I don't remember why Hummels disliked Tuchel. He is the only key player I remember to have issues with Tuchel though (until Tuchel moved to Bayern).
I'm by no means an expert when it comes to Dortmund. I just think to remember Sahin was integral for your first title in 2011 and then left (too early) for Madrid where it never worked out for him. Same happened during his loan to Liverpool. He then returned to Dortmund and hardly played a role anymore. He never reached his highs of 2010/2011 again. Neither under Klopp mit any other coach.
I always thought Tuchel fell out with the board especially Watzke about the CL match they had to play just days after the bus bombing.
Weigl, Aubameyang, Dembele played excellent and thrived under Tuchel
I agree that our wage structure is pretty high. On the other hand all top teams are paying these amounts of money or even more. Football just became crazy.
Is it really Salihamidzic's fault? I don't think he decided about the salaries, he was only the one who negotiated.
Lewandowski, Neuer and Müller deserved their wages. Kimmich probably too... Gnabry, Sané, Conan, Goretzka are overpaid...
However I believe they just would have left, if Bayern hadn't met their demands. Oil rich clubs like Chelsea, City, Newcastle, PSG have no problems to pay these salaries.
Unfortunately, that's the reality.
Isn't that kind of an inevitable consequence of handing out €20m+ p.a. contracts to Lewandowski and Neuer? I doubt this was something he got to decide on his own.
You're right that Hummels had left the year before, which means Tuchel had public disagreements with two different captains in a row. The quotes are from Schmelzer.
Sahin wasn't the stand out player anymore, but he still was an important part of the team. Klopp probably started him about 80% or 90% of matches after he returned, in particular with Gündogan's injury problems and Kehl/Bender not being particularly great on the ball. It was a bit later that he started to fade away over a string of injuries..
But the point wasn't about how good a player Sahin was or about Tuchel's coaching qualities,
It was just to highlight that at the end his captain figuratively gave him the finger, with other senior players backing him up on a live broadcast.
He also had a public falling out with Sven Mislintat, that eventually caused the latter to quit.
And there was a press report that he wanted to whine about Zorc's transfer strategy to his agent, but sent the message to Zorc himself instead.
This whole narrative of Tuchel being axed, because he courageously defended his players against the club leadership and Watzke in particular is at best a very generous omission. At worst, if you go by reports that he had a different position internally than he did with the press, it's a complete fabriaction.
But in the end it doesn't really matter for the present, does it? I mean whatever faults Tuchel may or may not have he'll be smart enough to learn from every job he had.
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It is not just a club hymn but a song by the Karnevalsband Höhner which is probably the most popular band in Cologne
Their songs are played all the time during carnival and to a lesser extent even outside of it. They (and other bands) borrowed lots of melodies from British folklore as I learned. I was very surprised when I heard an original a few years back and assume that most people living here and in the area have absolutely no idea that they didn't write the melodies themselves I mean, most will get that they sound 'Irish' but not that they are essentially cover songs. I recently read Cologne is the City with the second to most songs about it, only behind New York. All becaus of carnival.Now that you have to explain to me.
What do you not understand? Salihamidzic did the contract negotiations with players or their agents.
However, the underlying framework (salary limit, length of contract...) was decided by the board, not him (alone).
That still doesn’t absolve him from his responsibility and of course it’s his fault if he dishes out these contracts. That’s very much the core of his job.
The most important aspect of the time Salihamidzic spent with us, is that we have become significantly worse at every position group during his time than we were before. At best only one of his coaching appointments worked out (Flick) and the team itself lacks character and leadership, something we excelled at before he took over.
His reign was a disaster.
Bayern should sack Tuchel. Watching the Lazio game it's so obvious the players have turned on him. Playing against him
Be careful what you wish for. Don‘t let Xabi be tempted by a job opening in Munich...
I don't buy that playing against the coach narrative (almost whenever or at which club it comes up).
I believe it's no more and no less than the consequence of giving or not giving certain players game time going by arbitrary and personal standards, unsettling basically the whole squad, prioritizing defense in search of some imaginary stability, and nullifying our attack in consequence.
Result is the same though, i don't see a productive way going forward with Tuchel.
Interesting, thanks.It is not just a club hymn but a song by the Karnevalsband Höhner which is probably the most popular band in Cologne
Dude they visibly don't listen to him
He cut Sahin, cause he was done at the highest level. What you want him to say? You are slow and washed-up.
He barely played for Dortmund the next season before playing out his career for some mid-table/relegation threatened fodder in Germany/Turkey, who both benched him in their 2nd season, when both teams were in the relegation zone.
Did we really? Left back with Davies isn't worse. Center backs are of pretty much the same quality. Right back is worse compared to Lahm I give you that.
Midfield isn't worse at least if you look at the individual quality.
Replacing Robben and Ribery 1 on 1 was always an impossible task. They were generational talents.
Kane for Lewandowski is a draw. Musiala for Müller we have to wait.
I think Salihamidzic did quite a good job here, especially considering our limited (compared to the oil teams and United, Barcelona or Real).
United's squad cost 1,2 billions while ours is at 460 millions.
If there is an issue, it isn't the individual quality but the mentality of some players. Whose responsibility is the mentality? I think the coach is responsible to form a successful team. That's where Tuchel clearly struggles.
Didn't all successful coaches got rid of some popular and important players?
Guardiola in Barcelona, Munich and City always replaced several big names.
Klopp replaced pretty much the whole Liverpool team and than after last year's poor season the complete midfield. He is actually pretty ruthless.
Same accounts for Arteta who got rid of Özil, Aubameyang ans many other players to build his own team.
I wonder if they are going to go with this protest whole year?
Now we are seeing toy airplanes and candys on the pitch from Freiburg supporters.
Now we are seeing toy airplanes and candys on the pitch from Freiburg supporters.
As long as it takes. But I think we will see a new vote quite soon and the protests will stop.
I'm I informed wrong if I say that some potential investors have already dropped off because of all those protests? If so, it is working.
It is ridiculous to even propose that. Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 are both good leagues where stadiums are full.
No, you’re information seems to be right. If I recall correctly, the media asked the last drop out wether the protests were a factor and they said yes.
Are they, though? As a Swiss national, I follow German football quite closely and in my view the level has dropped off significantly in the last 10 years. There seem to be massive issues in youth development (i.e. Germany not having a proper striker or left back) and the national team struggles mightily, too.
To me, it's quite obvious that German football needs the money in order to compete with the other top leagues. The challenge seems to be getting the fans on board.
Kane 
Teams going into the dressing room due to protests.
Fully agree. Not sure whether it's about the investor anymore. A small group of fans are behind these protests and they discovered their power to disrupt matches. It's getting worse by the day.
Not only annoying for the majority of fans but also dangerous for the players to stand in the cold for 15 or more minutes. You don't need to wonder there are that many muscle injuries.
The main problem is the inclusion of the 2nd league. The smaller clubs there habe totally different interests than the top clubs.
The vote should have been between the 18 clubs in the Bundesliga, like it in England. EPL and championship are separated.
And there Bochum scores. Never would have happened without this fecking protests.
Damn those pesky protestors, another goal for Bochum.
no thank you. this investor deal is absolute garbage for everyone. and if you exclude the others the gap between the clubs only grows and that cant be what you want
Sack him at half time and sign Leverkusen's squad - actually, sign all of Leverkusen including Alonso
Harry Kane ballooning over earlier in the first half instead of just playing his team mate for a tap in was a brilliantly stupid decision.
It's still the first half