I agree with that, I've suspected it's been going on for a while. There seems to be a bit of a media narrative that he's a bumbling idiot. None of us know what he is really like but I refuse to believe that a man that has made it to the position that he has is as incompetent as is being made out.
Get a Director of Football in NOW.
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Why not? Said before he'd do a better job behind the scenes.
Yeah I totally agree. I wonder who it is....?
Hopefully one day someone will spill allWin-win.
Moves on from first team coaching (seems like the only way right now) and he can sort out our football behind the scenes rather than Woody until we find a long term approach plus he isn't 'sacked'.
Of course it won't work in reality, people already question the 'control' that Ferguson wants and it won't work with Mourinho. And he's lost credibility with many associated with the club e.g. fans.
His biggest problem is not sacking lvg, that's a given. But what comes next?
Giggs as interim is a disaster option, what if he edges it to 5th and the fans wants him? What if resisting the next manager like he did now? He got giggs and his co, saf, sbc and the fans to think about.
It's not a simple straight forward decision we might think.
Both is a gamble, giggs wont make 4th, lvg still might although it looks unlikely, pep surely wont come. Hiring mercenary manager for interim is equally bad, no good one will want to come, the bad ones arent that far worse than lvg at the moment especially with the injury crisis we endure. Even the prediction lineup game isnt a game anymore because the teams pick itself due to injury
Giggs as interim is a disaster option, what if he edges it to 5th and the fans wants him? What if resisting the next manager like he did now? He got giggs and his co, saf, sbc and the fans to think about.
It's not a simple straight forward decision we might think.
Both is a gamble, giggs wont make 4th, lvg still might although it looks unlikely, pep surely wont come. Hiring mercenary manager for interim is equally bad, no good one will want to come, the bad ones arent that far worse than lvg at the moment especially with the injury crisis we endure. Even the prediction lineup game isnt a game anymore because the teams pick itself due to injury
A DoF would not be responsible for sacking the manager, that decision would be made by the CEO or owners, in our case, the Glazers. I doubt even Woody has the power to sack a manager, he can make a recommendation but ultimately the Glazers would have to approve it. A DoF provides continuity between managers, recruitment and youth, that is something that we have lacked but it won't fix the hiring / firing of managers or the tactics on the pitch. In fact, Mourinho does not like DoFs and one of the reasons he covets the Man Utd job is because you get complete freedom as a manager, so if you want him, a DoF will only make him look elsewhere.
I assume you went to a new job that paid at least the same, if not quite a bit more. LVG is heading for retirement. His current contract pays him a lot of money.
The difference between quitting and mutually agreeing to part, is likely to be at least £5m. There were reports that LVG lost a lot of money in one or other financial scandal (poor investment) so while I doubt he needs the money, he would probably still prefer a decent pay-off for his retirement.
@Invictus
Sounds like van Gaal through and through.
Sounds like van Gaal through and through.
Perhaps I misunderstand this sentence but it's exactly a DoF's job to recruit managers who fit to the brand of football the club wants to play, and this includes of course everything on the pitch.
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This as bad as sending Ronaldo out for the world cup final in 98.
It saves face initially, but this just blows up in your face eventually.
The little scrotum is covering his own ass
Ill repeat
Bayern Munich found themselves in a similar position with Van Gaal. He was supposed to leave at the end of the season, but results and perfomances were getting worse.
They bit their pride, fired him and brought in a caretaker. Sometimes its not about making the absolute best decision, but making a decision before time runs out.
If we finish the season as expected under LVG with no trophies and out of the UCL, no amount of PR will spare Woodward from the backlash. The fans arent stupid.
I expect the next few months to be rough.
-Van Gaal to stay , top 4 slips away by late April/Early May.
- Pep to announce his next destination (not United), massive media briefs to ensue.
- Then a full on charm offensive leaking that we are interested in some unobtainable megastar. (that seems to be Woodward's m.o)
Bayern Munich found themselves in a similar position with Van Gaal. He was supposed to leave at the end of the season, but results and perfomances were getting worse.
They bit their pride, fired him and brought in a caretaker. Sometimes its not about making the absolute best decision, but making a decision before time runs out.
If we finish the season as expected under LVG with no trophies and out of the UCL, no amount of PR will spare Woodward from the backlash. The fans arent stupid.
I expect the next few months to be rough.
-Van Gaal to stay , top 4 slips away by late April/Early May.
- Pep to announce his next destination (not United), massive media briefs to ensue.
- Then a full on charm offensive leaking that we are interested in some unobtainable megastar. (that seems to be Woodward's m.o)
L
Sat there, pitch side in a chair, applauding the players he liked. couldn't make it up
FFS Louiiiiissss
Sat there, pitch side in a chair, applauding the players he liked. couldn't make it up
Yes, that's exactly right what you're saying. But, oh wait, Ed got the CEO job with how many years of football administration experience?
I agree with you. It's easier said than done. I also agree with the user who wrote earlier that these decisions shouldn't be made in the heat of the moment but when negative emotions after a loss have calmed down.
But ... I can't help myself thinking that it's really surprising that Woody & friends don't seem to have considered that this scenario could happen and are prepared ... it's not as if it was just an outside chance that this could happen. I understand United is a different calibre than Southampton but because your such a big club it would be amazing if there wasn't some sort of equivalent at United in place (from the article by Gary Neville on S'hampton's set up):
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I didn't see a single name of a successful DoF that we can sign in the whole thread... Can anyone even point big clubs where the DoF plan worked and possible names for us to appoint? I can only think of Leonardo at PSG
Why am I checking this at 5am? Am I expecting him to have been fired in the middle of the night?
If you do some googling you will find them all over the place. You are unlikely to hear about them in general because they are generally working outside of public view. Also their success is based on parameters which also might not be visible to the general public but on parameters set by the board and answerable to the board.
Would Bayern fit your bill?
Could be as simple as wanting him to carry on till we have a replacement lined up. I don't think Woodward fancies giving Giggsy half a season as the "caretaker" manager, it has all the recipes for a bloody disaster
He'd be shite.
Borussia Dortmund:
Managing Director of Borussia Geschäftsführungs-GmbH: Hans-Joachim Watzke.
Segment director for Sport: Michael Zorc.
http://aktie.bvb.de/BVB-auf-einen-Blick/Organisation-und-Management
Atletico Madrid:
Chairman Club Atlético de Madrid: Enrique Cerezo Torres.
General Director of Football: Clemente Villaverde.
Sporting Director: José Luis Pérez Caminero.
http://en.clubatleticodemadrid.com/atm/organisation-chart
Juventus:
Chairman Football Club S.p.A: Andrea Agnelli.
Vice Chairman - Pavel Nedvěd.
CEO and General Manager for Sport Area: Giuseppe Marotta.
Sporting Director - Fabio Paratici.
http://www.juventus.com/en/club/inv...ard-of-directors-and-control-bodies/index.php
http://www.juventus.com/en/news/news/2015/happy-birthday-fabio-paratici.php
Bayern Munich:
Executive Board Chairman: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Executive Board Member (Sport segment) - Matthias Sammer.
http://www.fcbayern.de/en/club/company/members/
IMO, we should target someone like Fabio Paratici from Juventus. He oversaw the transformation of Juventus with Beppe Marotta after working with him at Sampdoria as the Head of Scouting. Because he was a big scout, he will have a huge lists of contacts, plus as stated before, he joined Juventus in 2010 with Marotta, and from then, they've been arguably the best value for money club in football - signing Pirlo and Pogba for free, Barzagli for less than £0.25 million, Coman for free, Vidal for £9 million, Tevez for £7 million, Bonucci for £11 million, Evra for free, Lichtsteiner for £8 million, etc. Even this season - they had to part ways with Vidal, Tevez, Pirlo - 3 of their 5 most influential players in recent years; but after some initial struggle, they are again performing well and most importantly winning games because they signed Dybala.
Our situation is kind of comparable to Juventus when he was employed by them. They sold players like Diego, Giovinco, Zebina, Sissoko, Amauri; some players retired/ were cut - Del Piero, Cannavaro, Nedvěd, Trezeguet, Toni. And they have done a superb job - improving almost every season.
If we get a director of football it's essential that they know the Premier League inside out.
Im not really sure why people think Woodward is this commercial genius. Its not like he has single handedly built the brand of Manchester United and pulled off some incredible feat of commercialisation.
Manchester Uniteds global pull is down to the success of Ferguson on the field.
Of course a car manufacturer like Chevrolet would want to be associated with Man Utd, we're the biggest watched football team in the world ffs. Of course Adidas want to make our jerseys when we have a customer base of 650million. Its not rocket science that those deals would go to the highest bidder. If WeShitOnPeoplesFaces.com had outbid chevrolet they would be across our jersey right now.
Partnering with obscure brands like Nissin foods isnt exactly a coup for United, more a coup for Nissin. What a genius we now have a lucritive partnership with a Japanese noodle manufacturer. Good work Ed you behomet of financial deals you. What exactly does that do for the Manchester United brand other than increase the dividends of shareholders?
Woodward is just lucky he was in the right place at the right time. Any fool could sell Manchester United as a commercial partner to just about any company looking for global visibility.
Manchester Uniteds global pull is down to the success of Ferguson on the field.
Of course a car manufacturer like Chevrolet would want to be associated with Man Utd, we're the biggest watched football team in the world ffs. Of course Adidas want to make our jerseys when we have a customer base of 650million. Its not rocket science that those deals would go to the highest bidder. If WeShitOnPeoplesFaces.com had outbid chevrolet they would be across our jersey right now.
Partnering with obscure brands like Nissin foods isnt exactly a coup for United, more a coup for Nissin. What a genius we now have a lucritive partnership with a Japanese noodle manufacturer. Good work Ed you behomet of financial deals you. What exactly does that do for the Manchester United brand other than increase the dividends of shareholders?
Woodward is just lucky he was in the right place at the right time. Any fool could sell Manchester United as a commercial partner to just about any company looking for global visibility.
Appoint Curbishley, whatever. Rooney as player manager.
What are you on about? Woody didnt appoint Moyes and everyone was over the moon with the Van Gal appointment. It was a good decision, LVG just hasn't delivered.
A DoF should long have been appointed. Already during Fergie's last years, but sure as hell when he left. We are a dinosaur club.
Club is a mess until there are changes in terms of personnel and a proper structure put in place we will continue to suffer. Woodward needs to have his role changed or be sacked, we need a DOF, a new manager and a new academy director but I don't think anyone at the club with any power is qualified or competent enough to do any of that successfully.
He should join Real Madrid.
If this is true and Giggs does not want to be the interim manager:
Accept LVG's resignation
Beg SAF to give it a go for the next 5 months.
Hire Pep for the future.
Accept LVG's resignation
Beg SAF to give it a go for the next 5 months.
Hire Pep for the future.
I am going to get stick for this but I still suspect good old Ryan Giggs.
Absolutely not. The club has found it tough enough to move on even though it's been 3yrs now.
Do people really think it's all up to Woody? He's just following orders.
We only found it hard to move on from SAF because we hired the wrong people to manage the club.
If we got one of Pep/Mourinho/Anceloti/Klopp things might have turned out different. Obviously there are no guarantees, but it would have been a far better bet than Moyes and LVG.
Would have been an awesome feeling and a boost to all if one of those four managers walked into the club when SAF left.
A director of football is needed to oversee the long-term planning of the squad, making sure that players and managers fit the long-term plan. To appoint a DOF during Fergie's time would have been quite disrespectful. He was our DOF.
But I agree with the last parts. We do need one now.
I actually came online to post something similar. In the bigger scheme of things, we should really be thinking of a DoF. There are compelling arguments for it, and yes I know against it too. Personally I don't subscribe to the idea but after a chat with a mate I'm starting to think it's the best way forward. And here's why:
- We will never have another SAF. Nobody is going to stay at the club long nor steer it on all fronts for too long. We're now in the merry go round leagues. We will change our manager quite often either due to poor performance on the pitch or due to the manager feeling his time is up (see Pep for example)
- As we keep changing mangers, the only constant during such a time would be a DoF who would oversee both first team and youth setups and recruitment. He would also ensure consistent football 'philosophy'. Keep in mind that every manager would come with his own new set of ideas if not advised to stick to a larger framework already in place
- He would be responsible for recruitment with a budget set by the board. Targets would be in line with the club philosophy and discussed between manager and director. This means Woodward is cut out of the loop which most of us want to see with the transfer debacles we've been through recently
Most modern clubs that don't have long standing managers have gone this route. Of course it has pitfalls but then so does the option to give every new manager we recruit autonomy. The biggest issue of course would be clashing of ego's if there's disagreement on something like a transfer. I'm not saying we should definitely do it, I'm just saying that we should at least consider it. Especially looking at our current set of circumstances and where the club is going.
- We will never have another SAF. Nobody is going to stay at the club long nor steer it on all fronts for too long. We're now in the merry go round leagues. We will change our manager quite often either due to poor performance on the pitch or due to the manager feeling his time is up (see Pep for example)
- As we keep changing mangers, the only constant during such a time would be a DoF who would oversee both first team and youth setups and recruitment. He would also ensure consistent football 'philosophy'. Keep in mind that every manager would come with his own new set of ideas if not advised to stick to a larger framework already in place
- He would be responsible for recruitment with a budget set by the board. Targets would be in line with the club philosophy and discussed between manager and director. This means Woodward is cut out of the loop which most of us want to see with the transfer debacles we've been through recently
Most modern clubs that don't have long standing managers have gone this route. Of course it has pitfalls but then so does the option to give every new manager we recruit autonomy. The biggest issue of course would be clashing of ego's if there's disagreement on something like a transfer. I'm not saying we should definitely do it, I'm just saying that we should at least consider it. Especially looking at our current set of circumstances and where the club is going.
The DoF makes recommendations based on what he is doing regarding the players and general style of football he is implementing. The owners do the actual hiring. The exact responsibilities for a DoF vary from club to club, they can be anything from a technical advisor to the board, to a role that emulates the American football General Manager. Most football managers don't like the overbearing GM style DoF, it leads to conflict, they will accept a more loose DoF who just oversees the academy and player recruitment (with their input). If we put in place a DoF who was responsible for hiring and firing the entire coaching staff, implementing style, player recruitment, basically everything except training and matchday tactics, the majority of top managers would turn us down. I wouldn't blame them, you'd be responsible for results but have little real influence while the DoF does everything else behind the scenes and remains blameless.@Invictus
Sounds like van Gaal through and through.
Perhaps I misunderstand this sentence but it's exactly a DoF's job to recruit managers who fit to the brand of football the club wants to play, and this includes of course everything on the pitch.
Yeah he was amazing in that role for Ajax. Literally did not undermine and disrespect the manager in the slightest.
He doesn't have an ounce of diplomacy or tact in him, a DOF needs to be a great communicant, a smooth talker, he needs to be great at creating and maintaining a network, he needs to make people believe (particularly the head coach) that they have the power when they don't. LVG would be a great head of the academy but he is terrible for the DOF job.
Who cares about respect, the club needs to act for his own interest and not always put the feelings of its legends over everything. The club needed to prepare for life without SAF and hiring a DOF while he was still in charge was the smoothest and more sensible approach.
Shirt sales. That is his only priority. Doesn't matter if we actually need the player, he will sell shirts. That is why a DOF is essential now.