Weirdly enough the exact same people who keep saying Ten Hag needs more time were the ones yelling for Ole to be sacked despite the fact he performed far better than Ten Hag
Give it Ole until the end of the season...
- Thread starter Lentwood
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Who are they?
I totally agree success is a stretch. I would never deem a trophyless manager a success at United.
The main thrust of this thread is about Ole, so that’s why I’m not fussed about delving into your takes on the others, and I didn’t take issue with you switching from a stance of Ole doing well to ultimately failing, but for saying he was "fecking shite". I don’t find the terms synonymous. Feel free to call that nit-picking, but again that’s the kind of language that entrenches people, and doesn’t come across as fair and nuanced, as you’re portraying yourself to be.
If you’re really interested, I’d say that’s harsh on anybody but EtH, who’s breaking records and making me feel less hopeful about United than any other manager post-Fergie. LvG was harshly done by, though ultimately I was glad to be rid of him because watching United under him made me feel sleepy. Mourinho was very toxic towards the end, what with him talking shit about the club and it having a losing tradition in order to protect his ego, and tossing players under the bus. Ole obviously completely lost the squad and had to go.
You see, that's the thing, I'll resort to rhetoric such as "fecking shite" when the pro-Ole propagandists turn up. It irks me, but it is what it is. I didn't actually change my stance on him. I wasn't really a fan until the 2nd place/EL Final season. He signed a new contract pretty soon after and I was pretty apathetic about it (go check out my posts in the thread if that floats your boat).
If you cling to one or two posts in isolation, you can paint a story. But if you look at my posts throughout the 2nd place season, it'll paint a clearer picture. I was lukewarm at best towards him, but thought feck it, he's just signed a new deal and got 2nd place so I might as well look for the positives. I've done it with every post-Fergie manager barring Moyes.
You might think I'm harsh on other managers but I'm really not. My issue is, and always will be the fanbois of every single ex-manager. The reason being is that they lower the standards so much just to defend their man. Again, it's just a bug bear of mine. As I've said, Ole isn't the issue and he never has been. It's the extremists who go to any length to big up their favourites tenure. Ole's spell, like the others, when judged holistically, isn't favourable. I grew up on success, and what we've seen since the great man retired is an utter shambles in comparison.
Ole, sure why not? At this point I'd give it to Peppa Pig until the end of the season rather than keep Erik for another game.
If we're going the British route, it's Peppa over Gareth every single time.
Who exactly ?
Why didn’t you get worked up about anti-Ole propagandists then? There was a ton of disrespect thrown his way that supposed United fans should have been embarassed about, saying that he doesn’t give a shit about United, calling him a cnut, etc. Propagandists on both sides.
Also, maybe don’t paint yourself as objective and dispassionate then if fanbois are enough for you to start slinging shit about a manager that you supposedly have a fairly neutral stance on.
Or do. You can do you, obviously. Anyway, cheers for clearing up your stance. I’ll keep that in mind in the future.
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Winning nothing in 3 years is a disaster at a club like Manchester United. Dress it up however you want. some fans standards are really on the floor.
I don't think Ole should come back for his own good. I also think if he was asked, he would do so. But EtH isn't getting sacked before the end of the season, so that's moot.
However, I do think the squad is in worse shape now than when Ole was ousted. The signing of Ronaldo was what did him in, and he was backed into a corner to do it. Most people would probably give EtH the most credit for his handling of Ronaldo after the fact. Outside of that, the one real problem for Ole was what was going on behind the scenes with Greenwood. That said It's interesting to see so many people (rightly) bemoan the signings of Woodward, then hang the blame on Ole when it suits their agenda. I really don't think Ole had that much say on the signings during his tenure. Maybe I'm wrong. But many of the "bad" deals made during his time were already in the works before he arrived. I do recall how many said he would benefit from a director of football over him.
However, I do think the squad is in worse shape now than when Ole was ousted. The signing of Ronaldo was what did him in, and he was backed into a corner to do it. Most people would probably give EtH the most credit for his handling of Ronaldo after the fact. Outside of that, the one real problem for Ole was what was going on behind the scenes with Greenwood. That said It's interesting to see so many people (rightly) bemoan the signings of Woodward, then hang the blame on Ole when it suits their agenda. I really don't think Ole had that much say on the signings during his tenure. Maybe I'm wrong. But many of the "bad" deals made during his time were already in the works before he arrived. I do recall how many said he would benefit from a director of football over him.
Do you think Ole would be stupid enough to take the job again?
I was just pointing out that it was rewriting history to say the mood wasn't positive at the end of 20-21. Even his biggest detractors had changed their minds.
My view is different. There were a fair few people on here against him being appointed permanently from the beginning, and they became more and more outlandishly critical of him. Lots of claims that Ole was clueless, the coaches were clueless, the team was great and the players were saving him with “moments of brilliance”. “No style of play” and “no tactics”, Poch is great etc. hence the reaction from the other side of the fence.
As with all things though, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I'd be all for him or José managing us for the remainder.
Percentage wise, my expectations of a victory in the final under ten Hag is about 1%. The other two about 50%.
Percentage wise, my expectations of a victory in the final under ten Hag is about 1%. The other two about 50%.
Quoting a post I literally quoted myself isn't the gotcha you think it is, though you're utterly obsessed with trying to nail me with a gotcha, and have failed miserably many times.
Literally from the thread the day he signed his new deal. Yes, I look chuffed don't I. I've admitted I was wrong about him, like I was with all the others. Maybe I'm too overly positive and get caught up in the moment, I dunno.
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I don't get worked up with anti-any ex-manager propagandists, that's the whole point? I get worked up with their fanbois.
Nah I nailed it.
I doubt you've ever nailed anything mate
Why are we going round and round debating how good or not OGS is as a manager?
This is purely about NOT having EtH in the dugout for the cup final, because his dogmatic, crazy philosophy and tactics are going to get us humiliated.
The reason I suggested OGS hasn't got anything to do with his ability as a manager, it's solely based on the fact that the cup final is in three weeks and there are basically no other options.
Most are in jobs. The prospective options that are not in jobs (Zidane, Potter etc...) likely wouldn't take a job for three weeks and even if they did, they'd be completely new to the club, to the staff, to the players, to Carrington, to Old Trafford etc...its not viable.
So then we're basically left with thinking 'who knows the club, knows the squad, would do the club a favour etc...' and you're really ONLY left with OGS. Well, I say 'only', of course, there are other possible options...Gary Neville, Roy Keane, Jose (if he'd take it), Phil Neville...but all those options seem crazier / less preferable to me than a bloke who was managing us anyway three seasons ago and could slot straight in.
Again, it's really a ceremonial 'good feelings' based role. Come in, abandon EtHs crazy, stupid football, give the players a bit of a lift and as an added bonus, he does have a decent record against Pep - so he's not going to have to come in and reinvent the wheel, just stick to the low-block, 4-4-2 with split-forwards.
To be clear, it's for three weeks, and three weeks only - simply to stop EtH dragging us through the mud any further.
This is purely about NOT having EtH in the dugout for the cup final, because his dogmatic, crazy philosophy and tactics are going to get us humiliated.
The reason I suggested OGS hasn't got anything to do with his ability as a manager, it's solely based on the fact that the cup final is in three weeks and there are basically no other options.
Most are in jobs. The prospective options that are not in jobs (Zidane, Potter etc...) likely wouldn't take a job for three weeks and even if they did, they'd be completely new to the club, to the staff, to the players, to Carrington, to Old Trafford etc...its not viable.
So then we're basically left with thinking 'who knows the club, knows the squad, would do the club a favour etc...' and you're really ONLY left with OGS. Well, I say 'only', of course, there are other possible options...Gary Neville, Roy Keane, Jose (if he'd take it), Phil Neville...but all those options seem crazier / less preferable to me than a bloke who was managing us anyway three seasons ago and could slot straight in.
Again, it's really a ceremonial 'good feelings' based role. Come in, abandon EtHs crazy, stupid football, give the players a bit of a lift and as an added bonus, he does have a decent record against Pep - so he's not going to have to come in and reinvent the wheel, just stick to the low-block, 4-4-2 with split-forwards.
To be clear, it's for three weeks, and three weeks only - simply to stop EtH dragging us through the mud any further.
True, the truth definitely lies somewhere in the middle. Plenty did indeed utterly despise him being manager tbf.
It's not going to happen anyway. They won't do anything for the sake of 4 games.
Possibly not but then, what if we get beaten 5-0 (or worse) at the weekend by Arsenal?
Maybe INEOS will feel they absolutely have to act.
I'd say its improbable they will make a change, but not entirely impossible.
I know, that’s why I asked
You only get worked up over propagandists who are pro, and not the anti side. I would have thought both would be annoying for someone who purports to value objectively. Also, I think it makes more sense for a United fan to be reflexively supportive of Ole, a club legend, rather than shouting about him being a cnut who doesn’t give a shit about the club. Even if fanbois who won’t concede a single point are annoying.
Anyway, I’m done probing this. It’s all done and dusted anyway.
I think it's gone past the point where any result is a shock. 5-0 to Arsenal wouldn't be any worse than other recent performances. If they didn't act then, why now.
Ole was out of his depth too.
Kept playing his favourites, including players who were hopelessly out of form or useless to the team (e.g. Lingard),
….was reluctant to make substitutions and left it far too late nearly all the time
….wouldn’t change tactics in games when it was desperately needed.
….and worst of all, was far too soft and let the players do what they liked. He had no effective disciplinary control over them, but they were all “good lads” !
The counterattack game worked for a while, when team spirit was fresh and high, but it soon became chaos and performances became erratic, from game to game, until the inevitable downward spiral gathered pace.
.
Kept playing his favourites, including players who were hopelessly out of form or useless to the team (e.g. Lingard),
….was reluctant to make substitutions and left it far too late nearly all the time
….wouldn’t change tactics in games when it was desperately needed.
….and worst of all, was far too soft and let the players do what they liked. He had no effective disciplinary control over them, but they were all “good lads” !
The counterattack game worked for a while, when team spirit was fresh and high, but it soon became chaos and performances became erratic, from game to game, until the inevitable downward spiral gathered pace.
.
Because, I don't see why people bother defending any of our ex-managers. And, usually when they do, it's agenda driven and they want to hammer home that [insert name here] definitely was the best post-Fergie manager. That's what irks me.I know, that’s why I asked
You only get worked up over propagandists who are pro, and not the anti side. I would have thought both would be annoying for someone who purports to value objectively. Also, I think it makes more sense for a United fan to be reflexively supportive of Ole, a club legend, rather than shouting about him being a cnut who doesn’t give a shit about the club. Even if fanbois who won’t concede a single point are annoying.
Anyway, I’m done probing this. It’s all done and dusted anyway.
Why is there a need to proclaim who was the best? To me, the word best is a massive stretch and it's actually who was the least worst. The debates usually enter nonsical territory whereby anything any other ex-manager done means feck all, because [insert name here] was clearly the best. It's been done to death and there'll never be a general consensus.
I'm confident of two things:
1) Arsenal are going to absolutely humiliate us;
2) ETH will be here until the season ends.
In fact, some of these positive reports about Wilcox/ETH planning together for next season are starting to worry me.
All this implies that you see the need to slander a club legend and that it doesn’t irk you (not saying that’s the case). I never asked "why does it bother you that people are getting worked up defending Ole and going overboard?", in fact I expressed agreement. You’re answering questions I didn’t ask and skating right past the one I did ask.
boiii , you are rightI'm guessing you absolutely love the idea tbh
If people call him a cnut etc. then yeah, I would take exception. But no, I don't really care if people think his tenure was shite.
Nah.
Let it burn.
Let it burn.
People were regularly using that kind of language, and questioning his commitment. I don’t really recall you piping up about that. You were more concerned with calling out people who didn’t have a dim enough view of his tenure, and tossing out claims it was down to their nationality if they were Norwegian, something you’ve kept up with when it comes to Haaland. Which, I can’t lie, irked me. You might get it right occasionally, but it’s lazy and unsubstantiated.
Conversely people were abused to high heavens for having the sheer audacity to say that he isn't good enough. I remember all the hater, plastic cnut, clueless rhetoric, not to mention the piss taking about patterns of play etc. It is what it is mate.
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Yeah, sadly forums are full of those kinds of people. Some people said we’d do a lot better when someone with a semblance of tactical understanding came in, and yet here we are.
Anyway, I guess we’re all guilty of transference from time to time. Good talk, have a good one Robbie.
I accept this. Its like two bald men fighting over a comb. I just cannot literally believe people could even consider OGS coming back to manage this club. Dont forget, we were very obviously the worst coached team in the league under Ole, just as we are with ETH.
I feel Rangnick & 4-2-2-2 will solve our problems
Nah - give it Jose.
But then they
Is it? We didn't win stuff for three years under SAF.