Sorry buddy I’m only 22, I was just thinking about players I got to see. Even Woodgate is a stretch.
Greatest 'pre-injury' xi ?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
I believe he was getting better and better before the knees went kaput. I do think he would be held in a higher regard than he is if he had been able extend his time performing as he was.
With Sammer, perhaps he was already peaking and I sound like I'm offering up some strong conjecture, but I have always believed this to be the case with him.
Beattie was England’s biggest defensive talent in the 70s and reminiscent of Paul McGrath the way he was spoken about by Bobby Robson - called him the best England player he had ever seen. Shankly called him his biggest mistake after they lost him to Ipswich town.
Didn't Sammer retire very quickly once his legs went? I don't think we really got to see him soldier on much as a lesser player. His style was more about being all-action and tremendous box to box workrate(along with his great mentality) rather than the kind of sweeper that relies on having a lot of vision and technique to start plays and shut down attack. I'm not sure he would have lasted too much longer, but a '98 strong world cup showing means he might not have needed to.
He certainly wouldn't win any awards for grace and finesse, that's for sure!
I know I'm going to have to take him out the side because he doesn't fit the criteria. Although... my perspective of a player in the ascension.
Curse you guys! (not really, well spotted!
)------------------------------------------------------Ronaldo
-----------------------------------------------------Del Piero
Giggs-------------------------------------------------------------------Kaka'
---------------------------------Schuster---------------------Essien
--------------------------------------------------Redondo
------------------------Woodgate-----------------McGrath-------------King
-------------------------------------------------------Cech
Changed.
How are we rating someone like Chivu?
-----------------------------------------------------Del Piero
Giggs-------------------------------------------------------------------Kaka'
---------------------------------Schuster---------------------Essien
--------------------------------------------------Redondo
------------------------Woodgate-----------------McGrath-------------King
-------------------------------------------------------Cech
Changed.
How are we rating someone like Chivu?
Idk, Ronaldo and Kaka turned out pretty amazing. Ronaldo was still a top 3 player and won the WC. Kaka had issues after he accomplished everything.
@Fortitude actually I'd put Vladimir Bessonov at right back. Had won both youth Euros and World Cup (also winning the Golden Ball). I'm pretty sure that he would've ended up as one of the historically great fullbacks — but he's had so many injuries! More than 80, including teared leg muscle, fractured cervical vertebrae (nearly paralysed) and 4 knee surgeries. He still achieved lots, but I believe that his ceiling was even higher.
No mentions of Fletch? good luck getting the ball through this midfield
Hargreaves - Fletcher - Diaby
Kaka
Adriano Ronaldo
Hargreaves - Fletcher - Diaby
Kaka
Adriano Ronaldo
I think the issue with FBs (to a certain degree CBs as well) is how much different the role is and what makes them stand out.
How many really become WC straight off the bat? A Giggs or a Ronaldo will take your breath away aged 17, while a 17 year old fullback lacks the much needed experience, discipline and positional awareness. They may look like exciting prospects but you have absolutely no confidence in them not cocking it up every now and then until well into their 20s. E.g. Lahm, he was in the German NT for years but only really stood out as he came of age.
Take Shaw for instance. How many young fullbacks are better/more promising than he was before his leg break? Arguing whether he would be absolute top class or just a regular fullback is pointless though, you simply don't know, and yet Lahm wasn't really much better at that stage or was he? Evra was a car crash when he arrived!
The likes of Rafael and Fabio were permacrocks. I don't think it had a noticeable impact in their remarkable attributes, but it certainly didn't help them establish themselves and get the regular and steady playing time that would develop what they lacked.
A forward with technique and vision can reinvent himself leveraging them if their pace and agility is lost, while a fullback losing his pace and agility has little else to rely on at that stage so you most likely never get to hear of them again and simply forget them.
I guess the point is raw natural talent can make for a devastating forward while with a fullback raw natural talent means the jury is still out and will be for some time. Different price tag on raw and much harder to redeem yourself from its negative consequences.
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Blomqvist - Zlatan - Brolin
Forsberg - H. Larsson
R. Elm
Edman - P. Andersson - M. Svensson - Ljungberg
Hedman
Forsberg - H. Larsson
R. Elm
Edman - P. Andersson - M. Svensson - Ljungberg
Hedman
Good shout. Didn't even think of him.
Where's your team by the way?
You're spot on, and I guess by the time most FB's are recognised as a person of highest regard, they've already got a massive body of work behind them.
Having said that, I wonder if it's fair to say the majority of prodigious FB's have actually come to term and had outstanding careers? Zanetti, Vogts, Maldini, Facchetti, Cole, Djalma Santos and so and so forth shot out the traps and just maintained until their body's were well past prime.
As stated, one of the ways we truly rate the greatest fb's is longevity, so it does beg the question of how any of the above would be regarded if they had only a few years at the top rather than over a decade in most cases.
Hargreaves had an absolutely insane 2006 WC. He went from being "That German-Canadian guy who plays for England" to being "The guy". Then he snapped his leg in half. Then his knees imploded.
Ronaldo, Van Basten, Baggio, Del Piero
Rashford
Obviously in a different league to most of the players mentioned in the thread but Cleverly prior to the injury vs Bolton was really really promising and never quite looked the same afterwards.
Werent all our striking hopes pinned on Dion Dublin before the leg break in 92/93?
Werent all our striking hopes pinned on Dion Dublin before the leg break in 92/93?
Pierluigi Casiraghi, I remember being gutted when he signed for Chelsea and thought he'd rip it up, but then he had that horrendous injury (I can't remember if it was a leg break or not) and that was the end of him, I think Chelsea were said to have treated him really badly as well, ending his contract early, he sued them in the end iirc.
Sort of...
Dion Dublin went strength to strength after his leg break. As he later went on to forge a great career in the Premier League with Coventry and VIlla.
Yeah he converted to a midfielder or defender didnt he?
Ronaldo.
Post 1999 he was still a world class striker but before that he was an absolute fecking phenomenon.
Del Piero pre 1998 was amazing too. Wasnt quite the same when he lost that burst of explosiveness.
Post 1999 he was still a world class striker but before that he was an absolute fecking phenomenon.
Del Piero pre 1998 was amazing too. Wasnt quite the same when he lost that burst of explosiveness.
He was primarly a CF target man but was equally adept when called for as a centre-back.
Maradona?
Would be undisputed GOAT if he was injury free and no drugs problem.
Would be undisputed GOAT if he was injury free and no drugs problem.
Possebon..
Random team of players that first came to mind.
Rene Adler
Metzelder King Badstuber
Hargreaves Gundogan S.Bender Reus
Deisler Gotze
Ronaldo
Rene Adler
Metzelder King Badstuber
Hargreaves Gundogan S.Bender Reus
Deisler Gotze
Ronaldo