Guardiola's biggest mistake at Barcelona

[matbezlima]

As much as I love Guardiola's Barcelona and his work at Barcelona is one of the greatest works by any coach ever, it still was not perfect, nothing is. I conceed that Guardiola still made some mistakes at Barcelona. While that team would not reach those technical heights without him, his decision to let go of Eto'o after the 2008-2009 season, despite him being Barcelona's top striker in the season, and also using Ibrahimovic as a starter in both games against Inter against in 2010 might have cost Barcelona the UCL title in 2010. As Michael Cox's wonderful tactical reviews of both legs say, Ibrahimovic should only have come from the bench in the final stages of both matches as Barcelona's plan B after fast wingers would have tired Inter's defense throughout most of the game. Guardiola did the opposite, he mistook his plan B for his plan A. Ibrahimovic was virtually non-existent and hindered Barcelona's attacking fluency in both games. Iniesta's absence was surely a problem too. I'll make clear, though, that Inter fully deserved to go through and that they were truly great against Barcelona and a great team overall, their title was fully deserved. And while Guardiola got his tactics wrong, Mourinho got everything right. Inter truly nullified both Messi and Xavi.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/20/inter-3-1-barcelona-tactics-guardiola-mourinho/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/28/barcelona-inter-mourinho-tactics/

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Guardiola wanted to sell Eto'o in the summer of 2008 didn't he, but was persuaded not to by the likes of Puyol and Xavi.

In my opinion Eto'o was the best striker of his generation, and he had a very good track record in big matches, scoring in 2 Champions League finals with Barcelona, a Copa Del Rey final with Mallorca, Coppa Italia and Club World Cup finals with Inter, and African Cup of Nations and Olympic finals with Cameroon.

 

[VorZakone]

Guardiola wanted to sell Eto'o in the summer of 2008 didn't he, but was persuaded not to by the likes of Puyol and Xavi.

In my opinion Eto'o was the best striker of his generation, and he had a very good track record in big matches, scoring in 2 Champions League finals with Barcelona, a Copa Del Rey final with Mallorca, Coppa Italia and Club World Cup finals with Inter, and African Cup of Nations and Olympic finals with Cameroon.

Eto'o was a top player. 3 CL wins with 2 clubs and he didn't shy away from big games indeed.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Guardiola wanted to sell Eto'o in the summer of 2008 didn't he, but was persuaded not to by the likes of Puyol and Xavi.

In my opinion Eto'o was the best striker of his generation, and he had a very good track record in big matches, scoring in 2 Champions League finals with Barcelona, a Copa Del Rey final with Mallorca, Coppa Italia and Club World Cup finals with Inter, and African Cup of Nations and Olympic finals with Cameroon.

Think he said he wanted to sell messi too at one point. Good thing he didnt. Eto was a hell of a player.

 

[Stacks]

Guardiola wanted to sell Eto'o in the summer of 2008 didn't he, but was persuaded not to by the likes of Puyol and Xavi.

In my opinion Eto'o was the best striker of his generation, and he had a very good track record in big matches, scoring in 2 Champions League finals with Barcelona, a Copa Del Rey final with Mallorca, Coppa Italia and Club World Cup finals with Inter, and African Cup of Nations and Olympic finals with Cameroon.

"I said to Guardiola, you'll apologise to me, because it's me that will make Barcelona win, it's not Messi.”

“It was the situation back then. Messi would come later, but you can ask Xavi, Iniesta and others, that was my era.”


“It was me that made Barca win, and Pep would ask me for forgiveness."

Eto'o said it was when he scored a hatrick in a friendly game and many others, Pep changed his mind on him

 

[Scarecrow]

"I said to Guardiola, you'll apologise to me, because it's me that will make Barcelona win, it's not Messi.”

“It was the situation back then. Messi would come later, but you can ask Xavi, Iniesta and others, that was my era.”


“It was me that made Barca win, and Pep would ask me for forgiveness."

Eto'o said it was when he scored a hatrick in a friendly game and many others, Pep changed his mind on him

He said this after he was sold or when Pep first came? The last sentence makes it a bit unclear.

 

[Stacks]

He said this after he was sold or when Pep first came? The last sentence makes it a bit unclear.

When Pep first came

 

[Grande]

Guardiola wanted to sell Eto'o in the summer of 2008 didn't he, but was persuaded not to by the likes of Puyol and Xavi.

In my opinion Eto'o was the best striker of his generation, and he had a very good track record in big matches, scoring in 2 Champions League finals with Barcelona, a Copa Del Rey final with Mallorca, Coppa Italia and Club World Cup finals with Inter, and African Cup of Nations and Olympic finals with Cameroon.

It’s hard to comprehend. Barcelona in my view wouldn’t have won the CL in 2009 without Eto’o. Next season Inter wins it with Eto’o. Luckily for Barca, they struck gold with David Villa in 2010/11, untypical for his generation of slightSpanish attacking players in that he was an intense warrior with a smallish ego, and was catalytic to both Barca, Spain and Atletico Madrid in my view.

Guardiola came to the entrenador position at a club that had Ronaldinho, Eto’o, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, and he was served Henry, Zlatan and Villa. All playesr who would have been seen as generational stars at almost any other club. If his ressources weren’t limitless, I wish I had limitations like that ... and yet, out of those resources he made the periodically best football team I have ever seen for a five year period (2009-2013) with possibly the highest peak season I’ve seen 2010-11. That is well done any way you slice it.

 

[Sky1981]

Biggest Mistake??

Would love him to make that mistake with us

 

[adexkola]

I mean, wasn't Eto'o being an obstinate cnut? SAF has booted players out of Old Trafford for less. (I say this as someone who thinks Eto'o is a legend). Seems like a reach to blame the semi final loss on the absence of a player who couldn't start at striker position ahead of Milito (no disrespect to the latter)

Anyway the OP doesn't give enough credit to

1. Mourinho's tactical setup at San Siro (this was the more impressive setup of the entire tie, anyone can park a bus)
2. Efyjkya... Still can't spell it

But back to armchair management 101... Yes Guardiola failed

 

[Luke1995]

How much of Ibrahimovic's signing was due to Barcelona seeing Madrid get Ronaldo and Kaká ?

It's not like Guardiola didn't know that Eto'o fited well with his playing system and that perhaps Ibra would be harder to coach.

 

[Luke1995]

This seems a good thread to ask: Do you guys consider the 2011-12 season a failure for Barcelona or not ?

I mean, although they couldn't retain La Liga, they had won it in the last three seasons, so hardly a huge setback.

They got knocked out of the champions league in the semifinals (hardly a shame) and had won it the last season

So, winning the Copa del Rey seemed like a good season although perhaps the players didn't view it that way

I wonder why that season the team wasn't quite as sucessfull as before.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Eto'o >> Zlatan

 

[Ludens the Red]

@matbezlima
Mate are you trying to fill some sort of thread making quota?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

@matbezlima
Mate are you trying to fill some sort of thread making quota?

Someone had to ask this.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

This seems a good thread to ask: Do you guys consider the 2011-12 season a failure for Barcelona or not ?

I mean, although they couldn't retain La Liga, they had won it in the last three seasons, so hardly a huge setback.

They got knocked out of the champions league in the semifinals (hardly a shame) and had won it the last season

So, winning the Copa del Rey seemed like a good season although perhaps the players didn't view it that way

I wonder why that season the team wasn't quite as sucessfull as before.

It's an interesting question, because you could argue that for the European giants it's only a successful season if they win either the Champions League or their domestic league title. But still I think it's very harsh to call the 2011/2012 season a failure for Barcelona, for finishing with 91 points and not being able to win a 4 consecutive La Liga title. They weren't going to continue to win La Liga indefinitely year after year, it was inevitable that a giant like Real Madrid with the resources and players at their disposal would break through and beat them to the title eventually. It's like when Arsenal finished second to Utd 3 seasons on the trot from 1999-2001, there was a good chance that Arsenal would break through to beat Utd to the title eventually and that Utd couldn't keep winning it year after year without interruption. And I also would struggle to call a semi-final defeat in the CL after winning it in 2 out of the 3 previous seasons a failure. And they did they win a trophy beating Real Madrid on route.

Also sometimes challengers can look a bit sharper, mentally less jaded, more determined and even a bit more hungry than the team sitting on the throne. The Sporting Gijon manager at the time Manolo Preciado (who tragically died of a heart attack at the end of the season I think on the same day that he was appointed manager of Villarreal) said as much, that Real Madrid seemed to look sharper and more determined than Barcelona that season. Of course the style that Real Madrid won that La Liga title in with 100 points, 121 goals, away wins against Barcelona, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Malaga (who finished 4th), Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao etc, shouldn't be downplayed.

I did find the notion that Mourinho 'knocked Barcelona off their perch' to be pretty silly, when Barca regained the title easily the next season and he conceded that the title race was over before Christmas. Knocking a team off their perch requires winning more than one league title.

Also there was this mantra that it was a David vs. Goliath battle for Mourinho vs. Barca, when he inherited the most expensively assembled squad in history at the time, that had finished with 96 points in La Liga the season before, and he had a 25-28 year old Ronaldo who had hit his physical prime at his disposal (and Ronaldo spent more time injured during Pellegrini's 1 season in charge than during all 3 of Mourinho's combined). So it was a Goliath vs. Goliath battle.

 

[Luke1995]

Perhaps Pep had a better relationship with his players, @GuybrushThreepwood Mourinho was always creating problems with his dressing room. That probably destroyed the 2012-13 season for them

 

[matbezlima]

I mean, wasn't Eto'o being an obstinate cnut? SAF has booted players out of Old Trafford for less. (I say this as someone who thinks Eto'o is a legend). Seems like a reach to blame the semi final loss on the absence of a player who couldn't start at striker position ahead of Milito (no disrespect to the latter)

Anyway the OP doesn't give enough credit to

1. Mourinho's tactical setup at San Siro (this was the more impressive setup of the entire tie, anyone can park a bus)
2. Efyjkya... Still can't spell it

But back to armchair management 101... Yes Guardiola failed

Don't get me wrong, Inter was amazing and Mourinho actually deserves more credit for his great tactics in the first leg than when he parked the bus. I talk about it here:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/prime-mourinho-was-not-a-one-dimensional-defensive-coach.454420/

 

[matbezlima]

This seems a good thread to ask: Do you guys consider the 2011-12 season a failure for Barcelona or not ?

I mean, although they couldn't retain La Liga, they had won it in the last three seasons, so hardly a huge setback.

They got knocked out of the champions league in the semifinals (hardly a shame) and had won it the last season

So, winning the Copa del Rey seemed like a good season although perhaps the players didn't view it that way

I wonder why that season the team wasn't quite as sucessfull as before.

It's an interesting question, because you could argue that for the European giants it's only a successful season if they win either the Champions League or their domestic league title. But still I think it's very harsh to call the 2011/2012 season a failure for Barcelona, for finishing with 91 points and not being able to win a 4 consecutive La Liga title. They weren't going to continue to win La Liga indefinitely year after year, it was inevitable that a giant like Real Madrid with the resources and players at their disposal would break through and beat them to the title eventually. It's like when Arsenal finished second to Utd 3 seasons on the trot from 1999-2001, there was a good chance that Arsenal would break through to beat Utd to the title eventually and that Utd couldn't keep winning it year after year without interruption. And I also would struggle to call a semi-final defeat in the CL after winning it in 2 out of the 3 previous seasons a failure. And they did they win a trophy beating Real Madrid on route.

Also sometimes challengers can look a bit sharper, mentally less jaded, more determined and even a bit more hungry than the team sitting on the throne. The Sporting Gijon manager at the time Manolo Preciado (who tragically died of a heart attack at the end of the season I think on the same day that he was appointed manager of Villarreal) said as much, that Real Madrid seemed to look sharper and more determined than Barcelona that season. Of course the style that Real Madrid won that La Liga title in with 100 points, 121 goals, away wins against Barcelona, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Malaga (who finished 4th), Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao etc, shouldn't be downplayed.

I did find the notion that Mourinho 'knocked Barcelona off their perch' to be pretty silly, when Barca regained the title easily the next season and he conceded that the title race was over before Christmas. Knocking a team off their perch requires winning more than one league title.

Also there was this mantra that it was a David vs. Goliath battle for Mourinho vs. Barca, when he inherited the most expensively assembled squad in history at the time, that had finished with 96 points in La Liga the season before, and he had a 25-28 year old Ronaldo who had hit his physical prime at his disposal (and Ronaldo spent more time injured during Pellegrini's 1 season in charge than during all 3 of Mourinho's combined). So it was a Goliath vs. Goliath battle.

Barcelona's big problem in La Liga 2011-2012 season was their away performance. At the Camp Nou, Barcelona had plenty of truly magnificent performances as in the previous seasons, but they struggled away in almost every game in La Liga for some reason. Guardiola also had become experimental than ever with his tactics and his work was starting to become stale, the players' focus was not as big as before, Xavi was injured and not at his best for much of the second half of the season, Barcelona seemed rusty and sterile overall, specially in their two last games against Real in that season.

 

[Luke1995]

In 2011-12 David Villa got injured at the middle of the season and pretty much missed the rest of it, right ? So they had to play a Sanchez who was in his first year there, while Villa was already adapted.

That probably didn't help too

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Barcelona's big problem in La Liga 2011-2012 season was their away performance. At the Camp Nou, Barcelona had plenty of truly magnificent performances as in the previous seasons, but they struggled away in almost every game in La Liga for some reason. Guardiola also had become experimental than ever with his tactics and his work was starting to become stale, the players' focus was not as big as before, Xavi was injured and not at his best for much of the second half of the season, Barcelona seemed rusty and sterile overall, specially in their two last games against Real in that season.

Another interesting moment from that season, was Sandro Rosell's very arrogant interview after the 3-1 win at the Bernabeu, in which he boasted about how Barca took Real Madrid to the cleaners. That was a ridiculous thing for a club president to say, when he should have been more magnanimous and dignified, and I'm sure helped gee-up Mourinho and the RM players. Barca dropped points in their next game conceding a late equaliser away to Espanyol, while RM immediately rebounded strongly by scoring 6 goals away to Sevilla and winning their next 11 league games.

Plus there was Puyol's decreased activity that season, plus Pique's form declining and his well-document fall-out with Guardiola, and the increased dependency and over-reliance on Messi for goals I think with Fabregas their 2nd highest goal-scorer.

 

[VBI]

Relying on Zlatan was definitely a mistake. But I believe it was because Villa simply wasn't "getable" at the time, Valencia weren't budging so Barca had to look elswhere, and thus signing this guy to be the focal point of the attack, to mix things up, led Pep to put him in a few too many times when it was obvious he wasn't able to do what Eto'o did and what Villa would do. Attacks were literally breaking down because he wants to play in a different way to what Barca were doing. When he put Bojan in for the majority of the Liga run in, the team ended up winning the title when it looked like it might be in doubt at times.

Another mistake he made was establishing this concept of playing the reserve keeper in Copa matches. Which would be fine in theory, but we had Pinto at the time who was a massive step down from Valdes, and given the amount of utter eggs he laid against Madrid in Copa games in particular, it was quite infuriating.

 

[criticalanalysis]

"I said to Guardiola, you'll apologise to me, because it's me that will make Barcelona win, it's not Messi.”

“It was the situation back then. Messi would come later, but you can ask Xavi, Iniesta and others, that was my era.”


“It was me that made Barca win, and Pep would ask me for forgiveness."

Eto'o said it was when he scored a hatrick in a friendly game and many others, Pep changed his mind on him

He said this after he was sold or when Pep first came? The last sentence makes it a bit unclear.

Watch it yourself mate. Very interesting if you've never seen it before.

 

[Gasolin]

Watch it yourself mate. Very interesting if you've never seen it before.

Yes I always love that interview, not sure if all is true, but Zlatan also confirmed Pep was a coward.
I don't think he can create a team of players who play like friends.

And that's why I have very high hope for our own team.
Ole is a legend at United, and he has some guts.
Players will follow him.

 

[Scarecrow]

Yes I always love that interview, not sure if all is true, but Zlatan also confirmed Pep was a coward.
I don't think he can create a team of players who play like friends.

And that's why I have very high hope for our own team.
Ole is a legend at United, and he has some guts.
Players will follow him.

Have you seen the City documentary on their 17/18 season? Players definitely follow the guy.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Yes I always love that interview, not sure if all is true, but Zlatan also confirmed Pep was a coward.
I don't think he can create a team of players who play like friends.

And that's why I have very high hope for our own team.
Ole is a legend at United, and he has some guts.
Players will follow him.

You think players don't follow Pep? His teams won't play like they do if his players didn't follow him !
Some may not like him as a person which is normal, but they love the way he makes them play, so they follow him because of that.

Playing like friends is fun but it becomes meaningless if you aren't winning or atleast playing great football imo