Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

[snk123]

5 years of false dawns and disappointment.

He's going nowhere because we're the only "elite" club who tolerates this kind of mediocrity.

He was Players Player of the year LAST FECKING SEASON!
He had a great first season when he came in at 19 FECKING YEARS!

Toxic Short Term Memory Cafe!

 

[JJ12]

He’ll hit his purple patch and fool everyone again. We’ve seen enough. He’s not good enough.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Martial doesn't strike me as a guy who would like to be a rotation player.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Said this in the player performance thread but how many times have we all said “If Martial finished that chance/those chances wed have won” over the years?

If it’s a reoccurring line like I think it is, then theres an issue, especially when he’s turning 25 this weekend and he’s into his 6th season here. He really should have kicked on this season but he’s having the worst run of form since he’s been here.

Hes about to lose his slot to Cavani and Jose preferred Zlatan and Lukaku over him. 2 goals this season and one was a penalty given out of pity to him by Rashford.

 

[Fitchett]

No! Tonight was clear evidence of that. An unforgivable miss that could well cost us a place in the CL knock out stages, as we wouldn't have been chasing an equaliser in stoppage team. He doesn't come any where near to Van Nistelrooy or Van Persie, which is the quality of main striker we should be having. Play Cavani in that role for a couple of seasons, with Greenwood eased in for the role, or to be back up to Haaland.

Ole's given him plenty of chances, but Mourinho wasn't wrong with his assessment of Martial.

 

[Superunknown]

He's been my biggest disappointment, this season. Thought for sure that he would crack on after the way that he performed last season, but it just isn't happening.
A question that I ask myself is that "if he wasn't at the club, would his performances or stats mean that I would consider signing him?" I'm finding that very hard to answer with a "yes" right now.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

He's been my biggest disappointment, this season. Thought for sure that he would crack on after the way that he performed last season, but it just isn't happening.
A question that I ask myself is that "if he wasn't at the club, would his performances or stats mean that I would consider signing him?" I'm finding that very hard to answer with a "yes" right now.

Sums up my thoughts. Seem to remember he started last season quite patchy so hopefully he steps it up for the rest of the season, if not we will have to look for a new number 9

 

[My only Eric]

Wouldn't have finished 3rd without him last season.

But this season has shown that he isn't good enough. We need an upgrade.

Or maybe we would have finished higher if we had a striker that gets in the box more, runs and finds space behind opposition CB's and scores easy chances.
That 17 pl goals could have been 25 or more.

 

[bosnian_red]

In form, last season = 23 goals in all competitions

Title winning sides have strikers scoring 30+

Hes not elite level. He’s good on his day, largely inconsistent. Show me a year of Martial being truly top class.

I agree. I don't think he should be our main 9, and I don't think he is elite. I think he is a very good player and well worth being 1 of the main 4 attackers that rotate/compete. Ideally, we sign Haaland to replace Cavani next year, and then have him as the #9 and then Greenwood/Rashford/Martial rotate the other 2 positions on the wings playing off of him.

 

[sammsky1]

Lots of pundits told us over last few months that we need a proper no9.
Martial has had enough time to make his case as a no9. He isn't.
We should sell Martial in the summer no matter what and use the $$$ to part fund Haaland transfer fee.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Or maybe we would have finished higher if we had a striker that gets in the box more, runs and finds space behind opposition CB's and scores easy chances.
That 17 pl goals could have been 25 or more.

17 goals in our setup and not being on penalty duty is a pretty good return.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Played number 9 all of last year. 23 goals in all competitions is average. Elite teams have top Strikers scoring 30-40.

Is he elite level?

Not for me

This dosen't take into account the fact that he had his best goal scoring last season. He had 17 league goals, 6 higher than his previous best and was averaging a goal every 155 minutes of play whereas Vardy( league leader last year) had 1 every 130 minutes of play. The expectation was that he'd kick on to improve that goal tally into the 20s range but so far he is not delivering. On the plus side, in the prem he has only played 5 or so games, so there is still a chance for him to turn it around, but if this continues for the majority of the season, then its safe to say that he hasn't progressed and that he is still inconsistent.

 

[Jonno]

I agree. I don't think he should be our main 9, and I don't think he is elite. I think he is a very good player and well worth being 1 of the main 4 attackers that rotate/compete. Ideally, we sign Haaland to replace Cavani next year, and then have him as the #9 and then Greenwood/Rashford/Martial rotate the other 2 positions on the wings playing off of him.

I agree with your response. That’s where I see him.

 

[bosnian_red]

XG might not account for the fact he doesn't put himself in enough positions to actually score because he is so focused on scoring a specific type of goal.

Oh 100%. His lower xG is because his off the ball movement isn't at the top level. His finishing is excellent when he gets chances generally, and over the past 5 years is among the very best in the world. Great finishing does not equal being a great scorer though! Lewandowski and Ronaldo are both average finishers to xG (they usually don't overperform their xG) but have brilliant movement to constantly get chances and are brilliant goalscorers. Cavani is the same. You want your striker to get chances regularly and put them away at a normal rate. Not someone who barely gets chances but puts them all away. That's not sustainable.

 

[JJ12]

Martial doesn't strike me as a guy who would like to be a rotation player.

He can be a gone player

 

[Jonno]

This dosen't take into account the fact that he had his best goal scoring last season. He had 17 league goals, 6 higher than his previous best and was averaging a goal every 155 minutes of play whereas Vardy( league leader last year) had 1 every 130 minutes of play. The expectation was that he'd kick on to improve that goal tally into the 20s range but so far he is not delivering. On the plus side, in the prem he has only played 5 or so games, so there is still a chance for him to turn it around, but if this continues for the majority of the season, then its safe to say that he hasn't progressed and that he is still inconsistent.

His previous best wasn’t good enough either. And it’s what he offers besides his goals. Vardy offers an entire style of play, its brilliant to watch and if he doesn’t score, Barnes, or somebody else does due to Vardy’s style ofplay.

Martial demands the ball to feet, doesn’t enjoy balls in behind, aerially, doesn’t hold it up. It’s very one dimensional and unless he has a great game, he has a poor one

 

[Obiorahking_]

In form, last season = 23 goals in all competitions

Title winning sides have strikers scoring 30+

Hes not elite level. He’s good on his day, largely inconsistent. Show me a year of Martial being truly top class.

This is absolutely nonsense man. Liverpool's highest scoring player last year was Mo Salah and he had 19.

 

[Jonno]

This is absolutely nonsense man. Liverpool's highest scoring player last year was Mo Salah and he had 19.

23 actually, not 19.

Id swap Salah for Martial 100 times out of 100, wouldn’t you? He offers leagues more than Martial offers to their respective teams.

 

[tjb]

Oh 100%. His lower xG is because his off the ball movement isn't at the top level. His finishing is excellent when he gets chances generally, and over the past 5 years is among the very best in the world. Great finishing does not equal being a great scorer though! Lewandowski and Ronaldo are both average finishers to xG (they usually don't overperform their xG) but have brilliant movement to constantly get chances and are brilliant goalscorers. Cavani is the same. You want your striker to get chances regularly and put them away at a normal rate. Not someone who barely gets chances but puts them all away. That's not sustainable.

My question for you though is, is finishing simply the release of the ball from the foot ( even with that I still feel his right hand side technique isn't good enough to call him a good finisher) or is it the move that is made when the ball is in a goalscoring position. For example, consistently being caught in two minds about whether to pass or shoot and then doing neither or even running the ball out of play because of a bad touch when trying to round a keeper. Does xG take these situations into account?

 

[Obiorahking_]

His previous best wasn’t good enough either. And it’s what he offers besides his goals. Vardy offers an entire style of play, its brilliant to watch and if he doesn’t score, Barnes, or somebody else does due to Vardy’s style ofplay.

Martial demands the ball to feet, doesn’t enjoy balls in behind, aerially, doesn’t hold it up. It’s very one dimensional and unless he has a great game, he has a poor one

I need you to think about this from a player development perspective. Martial had 17 goals as a 23 year old on his 5th or so season. That record was a massive feat for him and while yes I don't think its enough long term, it gives the club encouragement that he can reach that desirable level of a top striker. I massively disagree with your second point that Martial is too one dimension. Martial is a very good dribbler, and can be a great team player given his knack for 1-2s with Rashford and co and has demonstrated that he isn't a bad passer either. Is it always consistent? Of course not, but given the improvement in his play last year that earned him player of the year, it was safe to assume that he would develop that consistency. That being said, there is no question that if he doesn't pick things up his spot in this team is done for.

 

[Obiorahking_]

23 actually, not 19.

Id swap Salah for Martial 100 times out of 100, wouldn’t you? He offers leagues more than Martial offers to their respective teams.

I'm using Premier League goals alone as its the easiest 1 for 1 comparison. And of course you'd swap Martial for Salah, but it doesn't change the fact that your point that you need to be averaging 30 goals every season to be good enough is silly.

 

[ti vu]

Lots of pundits told us over last few months that we need a proper no9.
Martial has had enough time to make his case as a no9. He isn't.
We should sell Martial in the summer no matter what and use the $$$ to part fund Haaland transfer fee.

The thing is, Martial is past that stage of hopeful unlocking another dimension in his game that can squeeze more bucks from potential buyers. Selling him in this market with the wage he's on, I doubt we would have anything close to the fee Dortmund would demand for Haaland.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He was Players Player of the year LAST FECKING SEASON!
He had a great first season when he came in at 19 FECKING YEARS!

Toxic Short Term Memory Cafe!

So we can rule this season out and wait another season for him to find form? He's not a killer like our forwards of the past, doesn't want it enough. Many false dawns with this guy.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Martial doesn't strike me as a guy who would like to be a rotation player.

That's fine. I don't want him even as a squad player.

Chuck him and £50m at Dortmund for Haaland.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

He is in a bad run of form but it's not like he's not trying. And an off form Martial will still create more problems for an opponent than our other options. He needs to play through it. That front 3 today is the way forward for me and it begins at West Ham. The only change I would make is to put Matic and VdB at the base of the midfield this weekend...

 

[Obiorahking_]

So we can rule this season out and wait another season for him to find form? He's not a killer like our forwards of the past, doesn't want it enough. Many false dawns with this guy.

He's played like 5 league games this season and we haven't even finished group stages yet. The season has barely started for him although he has played enough to be concerned.

 

[OleBoiii]

Martial turns 25 in a few days so it's not like he's finished. I'd keep him around while still looking for replacements. If Haaland ever becomes available then I think we should throw all our money in his direction.

 

[Castia]

I like Martial but he needs to be dropped

Not good enough at the moment

 

[Obiorahking_]

I don't want him even as a squad player.

You have every right to criticize him, but cmon now.

 

[ForeverRed1]

He’s not that guy you depend on when your backs against the wall. Hes sulky and needs confidence all the time. Doesn’t seem overly happy to compete for his place. Wants to be a number 9 but simply isn’t ... his ability isn’t the problem but his attitude/mentality is!

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I need you to think about this from a player development perspective. Martial had 17 goals as a 23 year old on his 5th or so season. That record was a massive feat for him and while yes I don't think its enough long term, it gives the club encouragement that he can reach that desirable level of a top striker. I massively disagree with your second point that Martial is too one dimension. Martial is a very good dribbler, and can be a great team player given his knack for 1-2s with Rashford and co and has demonstrated that he isn't a bad passer either. Is it always consistent? Of course not, but given the improvement in his play last year that earned him player of the year, it was safe to assume that he would develop that consistency. That being said, there is no question that if he doesn't pick things up his spot in this team is done for.

150 PL games, 50 goals (so 1 in 3 or circa 13 a season) and 23 assists.

 

[Obiorahking_]

150 PL games, 50 goals (so 1 in 3 or circa 13 a season) and 23 assists.

What did you think you were doing by posting this? What exactly is your point?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

You have every right to criticize him, but cmon now.

I'd take Rashford over him, Greenwood over him, Cavani over him.. and buy another forward (over him).

To be honest, it wouldn't be in his interests (never mind ours) to sit on the bench.

 

[gza the genius]

He's in bad form, but he's still an excellent player. I guess it's definition of excellent player. I'd say he's at a level where any club in the world would have him as part of their rotation of 4 for their front 3, while not necessarily being an automatic starter or nail down the left wing or striker positions. Or at the same level of player that other clubs have there (like Gnabry/Sane at Bayern for example).

I'd agree with this. He's an extremely good player and definitely good enough to be in the conversation but he certainly hasn't shown enough to be considered our undisputed starting striker. Cavani seems to be proving to be a good stop gap but when he goes we're going to need to bring in another striker again.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He's played like 5 league games this season and we haven't even finished group stages yet. The season has barely started for him although he has played enough to be concerned.

And who's fault was that? He was foolish against Lamela which led to a 3 game ban. It's not like Ole doesn't give him opportunities when he isn't fit.

 

[MrBest]

Martial really annoys me. He has so much talent, no consistency and limited aggression. He looks like he sulks already, it may just be his nature, but sometimes that rubs off on others. He is not good enough to lead the line, I'd prefer Mason there after Cavani has done his duties here.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

What did you think you were doing by posting this? What exactly is your point?

What did you think when you were telling posters "I need you to think about this"?

What did you think you were doing when focussing on one season instead of his United career?

What did you think when you came on here? Everyone better agree with you or you make sarky comments? Off

 

[Mylock]

He’s not that guy you depend on when your backs against the wall. Hes sulky and needs confidence all the time. Doesn’t seem overly happy to compete for his place. Wants to be a number 9 but simply isn’t ... his ability isn’t the problem but his attitude/mentality is!

The more I watch Martial he reminds me of Nani. He could have been world class but was woeful inconsistent. Time is ticking for Martial at United, he's 25 and still so frustrating. What is his best position? Poor movement for a number 9 and seems to mentally fragile. Pity.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Martial really annoys me. He has so much talent, no consistency and limited aggression. He looks like he sulks already, it may just be his nature, but sometimes that rubs off on others. He is not good enough to lead the line, I'd prefer Mason there after Cavani has done his duties here.

All of this.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He is in a bad run of form but it's not like he's not trying. And an off form Martial will still create more problems for an opponent than our other options. He needs to play through it. That front 3 today is the way forward for me and it begins at West Ham. The only change I would make is to put Matic and VdB at the base of the midfield this weekend...

I disagree, my problem with an off-form Martial is that it feels like he doesn't try at all. When Rashford or Bruno are having a bad game for example, they're at least involved, the latter can never be accused of going missing even on their worst days and dribbles and shots are just not working out.