What has Greenwood demonstrated to show that he is a better player than Martial? Martial would be a great squad player on literally any team. To say that it wouldn't be in his interest is a very fair point and should Martial prove to still be an inconsistent player, then we could make an argument to sell him; however, to say that he isn't even good enough to come off the bench is a reach.
Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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When posts say 'it's not like he's not trying ', I'm bemused because in my eyes it's exactly because he's not trying.
I look back to Tevez, who ran around chasing down defenders like a Duracell rabbit. Today, Bruno is his equivalent and probably Cavani too.
Martial may have technical skills but he doesn't have the appetite or engine for the fight.
I look back to Tevez, who ran around chasing down defenders like a Duracell rabbit. Today, Bruno is his equivalent and probably Cavani too.
Martial may have technical skills but he doesn't have the appetite or engine for the fight.
Could do with a run out for the U23’s, ATM he’s more of a hindrance than a help
I'm not even asking for you to agree with me, but if the best you can do is to give me a vague stat without addressing the context behind it then I'm not going to give you a serious reply. My point is very clear: Martial had a personal breakthrough season where he was finally putting it together, so it makes sense to give him a chance to continue that trend. Although it seems early on that it could have been an anomaly, lets give it a chance. So I'm going to ask you again: What were you trying to accomplish with that post?
see, I get more anelka! Sulky, flair player with loads of potential but lacking on the mentality side of the game.
That's fair. He clearly still has a lot of growing up to do, but it doesn't change the fact he hasn't played much and there's still time for him to turn it around this year.
Yes, Van der Sar knew that and psyched him out in the decisive penalty kick in Moscow in the 2008 CL Final shoot out
yeah exactly! Imagine martial with someone liks Bruno’s or Rooneys mindset. He would be a Different player.Yes, Van der Sar knew that and psyched him out in the decisive penalty kick in Moscow in the 2008 CL Final shoot out
XG takes into account the actual shot, but xGchain i think takes into account other things? Not sure how well. But either way I would say thats a very small/statistically insignificant amount that it would happen, equal to pretty much anyone else.
Finishing for me is perfectly captured by xG though, the way I describe finishing. How good he is at finishing the chances he does get. Movement is more important for top players though.
Agree he is absolutely useless these days.
I didn't say he wasn't good enough to come off the bench. I said I wouldn't want him as a squad player. I also said (in the next post) that that wouldn't be in his interests either... because I try to be balanced.
Lukaku scored goals but offered diddly when he was having an off game and had a terrible attitude. That's Martial too... in my opinion.
Think Rashford scored the same number of PL goals last season?
Greenwood looks a natural forward, lovely clean striker of the ball (reminds me of RVP in terms of shape when he strikes a ball). And he's still clearly young and learning and improving. Scored 19 goals last season (all comps) .. as an 18 year old.
Cavani has great movement inside the box and gives us an alternative, and can occupy a CH/hold the ball up. In terms of ability and the different options a squad should have (like when we had 4 in 98/99... different attributes for different opponents/situations in games).
For me, that's Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood and a new forward.
imo
It's time we seriously consider alternatives to Martial at 9. It's still only December so we're stuck with him until at least the beginning of December, and perhaps through the end of the season. But this cannot continue going into next season.
Assuming that Martial's form continues and he has bigger aspirations than being a squad player, then yeah not opposed to moving on from him. I still think he'd make a good backup for Rashford when he is having off days or gets injured and then our striker position would be Cavani, new striker, and Greenwood. It'd increase our depth without impeding Greenwood's development but it yeah it wouldn't change the fact that he's gone if he isn't starting.
Not when he missed an absolute sitter
Pointless striker. He has great chances to finish it off and fecked them up. He’s never going to be a top class striker.
Would you prefer Haaland/Martinez
Not only can he be relied upon to finish chances, he doesn't make enough runs in the box like a striker who scores tap ins. I just feel he doesn't have a strikers instinct but worse he isn't desperate enough to score goals.
He's a squad option on the wing, maybe up front. His movement is so average, he's too inconsistent to be first choice really, you never ever know which version of him is going to turn up, but at the moment its way more likely to be the one who doesn't really look up to much.
He’s been given enough changes and he doesn’t produce the goods. His major failing to me is his passing. How many times he gives the ball away from simple passes is not good enough.
As a winger he can’t cross or pass. When he does decide to run at teams, this season especially, he doesn’t hit the ball properly when he shoots.
He had that spell during lockdown where he looked the player we all expected from him but that was a purple patch. He lacks consistency to be the top class player we wanted.
Both him and Rashford have regressed.
As a winger he can’t cross or pass. When he does decide to run at teams, this season especially, he doesn’t hit the ball properly when he shoots.
He had that spell during lockdown where he looked the player we all expected from him but that was a purple patch. He lacks consistency to be the top class player we wanted.
Both him and Rashford have regressed.
Mindblowing that there were so many who would have been satisfied going into this season with Martial as the main striker. Really shows how the standard of this club dropped.
Players Player ? So he's popular in the dressing room, was he really our best player ?
He had a decent 1st season, 6 seasons ago
there is nothing toxic or short term memory about this thread, most of us want what is best for Manchester United, not one individual player, this guy should've been moved on years ago, we will continue to fall short if he is one of the guys we have to rely on..
Woke up defensively once he missed the 2nd sitter. I do think he should go play in a 2 up top system and score a ton of goals for like 50M to I dunno, Sevilla or Roma, but I prefer him at LW trying to score goals than as a 9 so we aren't toothless in the box or aerially with him up there. Rashford has been good on the right but probably makes sense cutting in from the left and Diallo and Greenwood are left-footed (and Greenwood may not be a conventional 9 for a few years with Cavani and we'll want a replacement proper 9 target type if possible as an option at least) and Dan James is around to back up Rashford on the left, so yeah I'd probably sell him, direct the money to the massive centerback and #6 purchases we need and buy a 9 say after 2 seasons of Cavani.
He might score a lot of goals this year as Cavani and Bruno look creative, Rashford scares defenders on the other side more and Telles commands respect to his left on overlaps, but we could also probably just shift Rashford out left and throw Greenwood out there on the right and he'd get the same number of goals as Martial and 85-90% of the overall play since Martial hasn't really grown a ton as passer, presser or defender and his off the ball movement ain't great. Could even use Bruno narrow on the left with Telles pushed up so as to get Van De Bee or Pogba as a 10 type and really are you losing a ton? And when we play on the break James isn't a terrible option, though definitely you'd expect a drop in goals. And Diallo is coming in January.
If there was ever a player to swap for a solution elsewhere, like if Atletico would give up Koke to play alongside McTominay or Fred or Real wanna give up on Varane while he's struggling or something like that, it's Martial.
He might score a lot of goals this year as Cavani and Bruno look creative, Rashford scares defenders on the other side more and Telles commands respect to his left on overlaps, but we could also probably just shift Rashford out left and throw Greenwood out there on the right and he'd get the same number of goals as Martial and 85-90% of the overall play since Martial hasn't really grown a ton as passer, presser or defender and his off the ball movement ain't great. Could even use Bruno narrow on the left with Telles pushed up so as to get Van De Bee or Pogba as a 10 type and really are you losing a ton? And when we play on the break James isn't a terrible option, though definitely you'd expect a drop in goals. And Diallo is coming in January.
If there was ever a player to swap for a solution elsewhere, like if Atletico would give up Koke to play alongside McTominay or Fred or Real wanna give up on Varane while he's struggling or something like that, it's Martial.
Not good enough to be our starter. As I said previously, we should have sold this guy and not Lukaku, who rains goals.
I would really consider looking around at clubs with decent CFs and seeing if they'd be open for a trade.
Otherwise, keep as a squad option.
I would really consider looking around at clubs with decent CFs and seeing if they'd be open for a trade.
Otherwise, keep as a squad option.
Well I'd prefer a top defensive midfielder if there's a wish list. A winger and a centre half too, but I think the DM would have a huge impact on the stability and balance of our team - support defence and allow Bruno/Donny/attacking players to focus on what they do best.
From the limited amount I've seen, I like both of those players though different attributes (counter attacking v predatory, hold up capabilities). Also good ages and both appear to have a confidence and desire to win/put in the effort... which spreads across teammates in the same way negativity/sulky body language does (Martial).
Honestly? I'd need to see a lot more, there are loads of posters who've watched plenty of their games - they're better placed. If close, I would go with whoever I thought fitted our system of play the best or gives us the right options for when we need to have a Plan B.
Right now, I guess counter attacking ability, age and release clause amount (if true at c£65m) would say Haaland.
You?
Yeah don't get me started on not signing a proper CDM and the thing I find the most worrying is Ole doesn't seem to see any problem with continually playing 2 holding midfielders rather than 1 DM and 1 CM which is what should be happening. We all know the reason that he is doing it is because he simply cannot trust Maguire & Lindelof to defend without any proper protection in front of them
Lukaku for Man Utd
17/18 - 151 minutes per goal
18/19 - 200 minutes per goal
Martial last season had 155 minutes per goal.
Let's not even go into their record vs. the top 6 or their all round game
Not sure Ole is completely happy about it, he’s already tried to split up the Fred/McT pairing and it backfired. Ole has a friendly, happy-go-lucky demeanour, which I think works against him. I reckon privately he knows exactly where the problems in the squad are, but knows he has to prioritise. Not sure that fans would be happier if he started doing a Jose and moaned about how terrible his squad is and how everyone else had an amazing team and he just can’t compete.
Greenwood has shown much better instincts for goal than Martial. Also that he can come off the bench and have an impact.
Clubs who aspire to be at the top are always looking for a upgrade on whatever they currently have. I think Martial’s time has come, he hasn’t got he sauce to consistently be at the level required.
So if he knows there is a problem at CDM then why wasn't he demanding that Woody give him money to sign one
And that's on his best year
I've no doubt that Ole will look to improve in the striking department again, he's obviously not been convinced by Martial for awhile.
His form is actually frustrating because he was really impressive last season and even got back into that talented French team and now this? His all round game has been good. It's his finishing that's terrible. I don't know if people remember but this problem actually started towards the end of last season especially in the Sevilla game. He's just lost that calmness he had in front of goal and now is trying to rush things.
Because he has to prioritise, and he felt there were more pressing issues than to buy a CDM when we already have three of them. It doesn’t matter that none of them are ideal, in the real world you can’t move players around like it’s Football Manager.
He wanted RWF, a position in which we have nobody, he wanted a left sided full back to challenge Shaw and cover for when he’s injured (such as right now..). He wanted a standard CM (VdB) to compete with Pogba, (potential future planning for if he leaves). We’re not Chelsea, we can’t buy an entire first XI in one summer. Building the squad takes time and we’re getting there piece by piece. Honestly think his work in the transfer market is spot on, bearing in mind that he doesn’t have complete control of who we sign.
Quite honestly only one of them is a proper CDM and that's Matic who isn't mobile enough and we need proper cover for, unfortunately that just isn't ever going to be Fred & McTominay
The main issue with this United team is inconsistency. Martial is a key figure in this. There are different versions of Martial, one can not predict which one will turn up in games.
Also, he is not a proper #9. He is wasteful, he drops back too much, he likes to run in spaces. He's more of a winger than a striker. He's not a long term solution for the #9 position
Also, he is not a proper #9. He is wasteful, he drops back too much, he likes to run in spaces. He's more of a winger than a striker. He's not a long term solution for the #9 position
The sooner he accepts he isn't the answer at no 9 then the better off he will be
It's the same thing every year with our fans. Even when he does play well, its because he's played well in a few match winning moments rather than terrorized the opposition. The truth is, our forwards are far too passive, both in possession and out of possession. They are the one's who don't provide support to the midfield, rather than the midfield providing support to them.
Yeah would love us to have someone who never gives the defenders a moments rest like Mane provides to the scousers
I would echo what other posters have said. He lacks the will and drive.
Remember that great counter attacking goal Ronaldo scored for us where he sprinted 50 yards against Arsenal in the CL. Martial cannot do that.
Its a phsyical game. An endurance one. You have to be able to push yourself.
Remember that great counter attacking goal Ronaldo scored for us where he sprinted 50 yards against Arsenal in the CL. Martial cannot do that.
Its a phsyical game. An endurance one. You have to be able to push yourself.