Have football awards become too much about who won and not the best player?

[KeanoMagicHat]

With some people calling for Jorginho to win the Ballon d'Or simply because his teams won the Champions League and Euros, even though I think he's barely in the top 5 best players in his position and would struggle to make the best 20 footballers in the world, has football gone too far the way of rewarding the winners rather than the individual?

Jorginho missed a key penalty in the Euro 2020 final and could have been remembered like Baggio for Italians, but because Saka also misses (completely unrelated to him) he wins the trophy. If Italy lose on penalties, then Mason Mount has won the Champions League and Euro 2020 in one season, is he better than Jorginho? Should he win Ballon d'Or? If Spain beat Italy on penalties in the semi-final and win the final, is Azpilicueta a Ballon d'Or contender?

Lewandowski has one of the best individual seasons in a long time, but gets injured out of his control for one match against PSG and then Bayern lose in his absence missing many chances (therefore proving his importance to their team) but he is ruled out by some because he didn't win the Champions League?

Messi was criticised heavily for not being able to win an international trophy. Then he wins one by playing terribly in the final, but this proves he has had a better year than previous years he didn't win it? And Ronaldo got injured in the Euro 2016 final and made no impact, but because Eder scores a wonder goal and Gignac hits the post in the last minute, Ronaldo is a winner?

There are countless examples of this, and it seems to be happening more and more at all levels of football. Who seriously thought Jordan Henderson was the best footballer in England when Liverpool won the league ahead of De Bruyne? Then De Bruyne himself had his second worst season of the last 5 or 6, but won PFA player of the year and is nominated for a number of awards because City did well.

In the past, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Nedved won Ballon d'Or without winning a major European trophy, same with Rivaldo, Ronaldo, George Weah. They were just considered the best players in the world on ability. Brazilian Ronaldo never won the Champions League. In the modern day, would that have stopped him winning awards, even if he was clearly the best player in the world? Lewandowski has a ridiculous 57 goals in his last 46 games for club and country, but some discounted him because he got injured for one month?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Messi and Ronaldo ruined individual awards by being too good and winning the CL every other day, yes. Once we have less dominant players, the awards will return to the way they used to be.

With some people calling for Jorginho to win the Ballon d'Or simply because his teams won the Champions League and Euros, even though I think he's barely in the top 5 best players in his position and would struggle to make the best 20 footballers in the world, has football gone too far the way of rewarding the winners rather than the individual? Jorginho missed a key penalty in the Euro 2020 final and could have been remembered like Baggio for Italians, but because Saka also misses (completely unrelated to him) he wins the trophy. If Italy lose on penalties, then Mason Mount has won the Champions League and Euro 2020 in one season, is he better than Jorginho?

Maybe I'm wrong, but what I recall is that people said Jorginho could use winning both titles a a platform to winning a Balon D'Or. However, doing things like "missing a penalty in the final" took away from that possibility. I don't think lots of people think he deserves it anymore.

Lewandowski has one of the best individual seasons in a long time, but gets injured out of his control for one match against PSG and then Bayern lose in his absence missing many chances (therefore proving his importance to their team) but he is ruled out by some because he didn't win the Champions League?

Well, the Balon D'Or is afaik given based on collective opinions. There'll always be some people that don't vote Lewandowski, just like there were people that didn't vote Ronaldo, Messi, etc. I think Lewandowski will probably get votes even without a CL just because there was no award last season and he clearly would have won it.

Messi was criticised heavily for not being able to win an international trophy. Then he wins one by playing terribly in the final, but this proves he has had a better year than previous years he didn't win it?

Well, no. It wouldn't mean that at all. It would mean that this season, there wasn't another player that achieved more than Messi, even if his achievements this year were inferior to his achievements in years when he didn't win.

And Ronaldo got injured in the Euro 2016 final and made no impact, but because Eder scores a wonder goal and Gignac hits the post in the last minute, Ronaldo is a winner?

Well, Ronaldo also won the Champions League that year. So he was already a winner.

Again, the basic problem is these two guys who were almost always putting up insane numbers, insane performances, and winning the major title half the time (Messi won 3 and Ronaldo won 5 CLs from 2008 to 2021, 8 out of 13). It's distorted everything; no one was going to win awards against them by talent, so people have been focused on trophy wins since. It'll pass.

 

[Gehrman]

I agree about Lewandowski and your general point. Messi has had a very good 2021 season so far and definitely deserves to be in contention, but I feel the Ballon D'or has become a bit like the oscars at this point. It's not really about who's had the best individual season, but who's had the best performances in in some key games in the team that won the biggest prizes. However I do feel when the Ballon D'or has been dominated almost entirely by Messi and Ronaldo for over a decade it's also simply because they have almost always been head and shoulders above the rest. I agree that quite often it's about the narrative rather than individual performances however I still Messi and Lewandowski are the geniune best candidates with a few of the others like Mpabbe, Haaland etc not being far behind.

 

[ThehatchetMan]

I think the fact that since 2008 the Ballon d'or has only been given to Messi/Ronaldo with the exception of one occasion, sort of goes against what your suggesting.

So if anything I'd say some of the awards are actually bias towards the naturally talented players rather than those which have overachieved and had a very successful season.

 

[harms]

It was always like that — some people argued for players who had won more, some people argued for players who had performed better. And every time people would be vocally disagreeing with it, be it with Messi winning Ballon d'Or ahead of Xavi/Iniesta/Sneijder (perfrmance>titles) or with Cannavaro winning it ahead of, say, Henry or Ronaldinho (titles>performances).

And no, Jorginho won't win Ballon d'Or, not even close.

 

[Champ]

Actually couldn't give a damn who wins any individual award in football, and never sure why people get so up in arms about it.

These awards will always go to players who play for the big teams, and will always go to players in teams that win the big tournaments because those games offer the greatest exposure.

Jorginho has actaully been one of the better midfielders over the course of the year, has been fairly integral to Chelsea and integral to Italy, he goes under the radar and that is why people don't think he should get it, despite his consistently good performances.

Likewise these awards generally go to the highest profile players in a team, usually the goalscorers. When was the last time a keeper won it for example.

 

[Pickle85]

This will definitely not turn into another Messi Vs Ronaldo thread...

 

[Adam-Utd]

Before the shortlist came out, would ANYBODY have had Jorginho as the best player in the world last year?

I'm all for rewarding success but this is taking it a bit too far.

 

[Kentonio]

Yes it totally has, these awards should be completely unrelated to trophies won. If the best player in the world is playing for Bradford or Genk one season, then they should still be recognized otherwise the award is basically meaningless.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Yes it totally has, these awards should be completely unrelated to trophies won. If the best player in the world is playing for Bradford or Genk one season, then they should still be recognized otherwise the award is basically meaningless.

Sure, but that hasn't really happened in a long time.

 

[altodevil]

Spot on - it's an 11 vs 11 sport. Winning/Trophies should be a factor for manager awards. Not player awards.

 

[11101]

They have become a popularity contest ever since they tapped into the Messi v Ronaldo hype. Either could have justifiably won it in any given year so they just gave it to whoever won the Champions League that year, and with pretty much one exception each that's how it was for 10 years. The organisers have forgotten what the award is supposed to be about.

 

[lysglimt]

In fairness - was it better 20 years ago when winning didn't matter as much and you had situations where David Ginola won awards ahead of our players who just won the treble ?

 

[Mb194dc]

Not simply because Jorginho won the trophies, he's the key metronome in the Italian and Chelsea teams. Neither will work as a team without him playing.

Individual awards in football are pretty stupid generally because no matter how good 1 of 11 is, still need the other 10 to do anything. Individual awards nearly always go to forwards and other positions ignored, they're just a marketing exercise.

 

[Gio]

Yes, but I think the trend is actually the reverse. That's because historically when you didn't win you weren't on the radar, whereas today you're guaranteed to play for a big club jostling for honours and front of centre in the media's eyes.

In the past, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Nedved won Ballon d'Or without winning a major European trophy, same with Rivaldo, Ronaldo, George Weah. They were just considered the best players in the world on ability. Brazilian Ronaldo never won the Champions League. In the modern day, would that have stopped him winning awards, even if he was clearly the best player in the world? Lewandowski has a ridiculous 57 goals in his last 46 games for club and country, but some discounted him because he got injured for one month?

But most of these guys won big things:
1997 - Ronaldo won both the ECWC and the Copa America
1999 - Rivaldo won the Copa America
2004 - Realistically neither Porto nor Greece were going to provide a Ballon D'Or winner, so it was up in the air, with Shevchenko receiving delayed recognition for the CL win the year before (same might happen with Lewa this year)
2005 - Same could apply with Liverpool, although Gerrard went close, but Ronaldinho was at his absolute peak and miles ahead of the pack

 

[Aboutreika18]

In fairness - was it better 20 years ago when winning didn't matter as much and you had situations where David Ginola won awards ahead of our players who just won the treble ?

Probably a bad example to use because didn't Ginola only win because the votes were split between the United players on the shortlist?

 

[Offside]

Yep. People claiming the likes of Jorginho should win the Ballon D’or is laughable. As if he’s the best player in the world.

 

[Redlyn]

The top player drives the team in important matches which enables them to win something. I would select the player who scored 40 G/A and was instrumental in the double his team got over the player who scored 45 G/A where he a flat track bully (not prominent in the big games).

I think the numbers/performances are important but so are the trophies. The evaluation needs to be balanced.

 

[Earvin Johnson]

Not simply because Jorginho won the trophies, he's the key metronome in the Italian and Chelsea teams. Neither will work as a team without him playing.

Individual awards in football are pretty stupid generally because no matter how good 1 of 11 is, still need the other 10 to do anything. Individual awards nearly always go to forwards and other positions ignored, they're just a marketing exercise.

I can pick at least 10 midfielders who are better than Jorginho at what they do. He is a good player, elite in the defensive aspect of the game and a decent ball progressor, and thats it. He is a good player who happened to be in two teams that won it all this year.

He doesnt play a role so complex in those teams that only he can play. If you replace him in those teams by players Verratti or Thiago, chances are the teams improve further. (Verratti was already the best Italian midfielder in the European Championship)

 

[romufc]

The top player drives the team in important matches which enables them to win something. I would select the player who scored 40 G/A and was instrumental in the double his team got over the player who scored 45 G/A where he a flat track bully (not prominent in the big games).

I think the numbers/performances are important but so are the trophies. The evaluation needs to be balanced.

Agree with this.

The best players will drive their club to win things, that's why what they win counts. If you look at the best players, they deliver in key moments, which may be semi final win, equaliser or something which is what makes them the best.

Lewandowski alone was not the reason Bayern won the German League, which is what lets him down, he needs a CL final to go with it.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

In fairness - was it better 20 years ago when winning didn't matter as much and you had situations where David Ginola won awards ahead of our players who just won the treble ?

I think this shows an example as Harry Kane last season was much better than Ginola that season and Stam that season was probably as good as Dias was last season, never mind other United players. But Kane's team didn't do much, so he didn't feature in the awards.

 

[Kentonio]

Agree with this.

The best players will drive their club to win things, that's why what they win counts. If you look at the best players, they deliver in key moments, which may be semi final win, equaliser or something which is what makes them the best.

Lewandowski alone was not the reason Bayern won the German League, which is what lets him down, he needs a CL final to go with it.

Disagree 100% with this. You could put peak Messi in the Norwich team and they still aren't winning anything. Does that mean he's no longer the best player in the world?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Yep. People claiming the likes of Jorginho should win the Ballon D’or is laughable. As if he’s the best player in the world.

He isn't even top 30.

 

[romufc]

Disagree 100% with this. You could put peak Messi in the Norwich team and they still aren't winning anything. Does that mean he's no longer the best player in the world?

Yep, pretty much. I can guarantee you Messi would not have reached the heights if the played for Norwich.

 

[Kentonio]

Yep, pretty much. I can guarantee you Messi would not have reached the heights if the played for Norwich.

This seems like an extremely modern mindset to me. In the past amazing players playing for (and staying with) teams that weren't packed with top level talent was completely normal.

 

[Blood Mage]

The reality is Messi and Ronaldo have been the two best players in the world since 2008 and have deserved to sweep up the ballon d'Or honours. The only ballon d'Or win that was questionable in this period for me was Modric's win in 2018, that was an instance where FIFA were sick of giving it to either Messi or Ronaldo (Ronaldo should have won it that year though). Should Lewandowski have won last year? Perhaps as Messi and Ronaldo's levels dropped significantly for the first time since 2008, especially Ronaldo's.

It's going to be much more interesting over the next decade because there are no obvious heirs to their thrones. Mbappe and Haaland perhaps but we'll see.

 

[ThomasEmil]

Yes it totally has, these awards should be completely unrelated to trophies won. If the best player in the world is playing for Bradford or Genk one season, then they should still be recognized otherwise the award is basically meaningless.

This is a great opinion.
Problem is, awarding people a trophy based on opinions will always create more controvercy, than if you give them out based on data of succes.
"This guy is good. I think he is good. Best actually" - "i think this other guy is great".

In journalism it'll always come down to the most objective truth. And numbers will give that truth rather than opinions.
Sadly.

 

[giorno]

Jorginho missed a key penalty in the Euro 2020 final and could have been remembered like Baggio for Italians,

No way Jorginho would have been remembered for single-handedly getting us to the final

As for the thread itself, *insert always has been meme*

 

[Gehrman]

Disagree 100% with this. You could put peak Messi in the Norwich team and they still aren't winning anything. Does that mean he's no longer the best player in the world?

Barcelona didn't win the league in the season where Messi scored 50 league goals and broke Gerd Müllers record.

 

[Lord SInister]

No they have not, unless Jorginho wins the Ballon D'or which is impossible because Messi has locked it with Copa win.

 

[sewey89]

Jorginho, the best player in the world? fecking hell. He shouldn't be anywhere near even being considered

 

[laughtersassassin]

Sometimes it does.

Example being KDB winning player of the year despite not being the best player at his team.

All in all last year KDB wasn't great by his standards but still won because of his name and the title etc

 

[NinjaZombie]

If it's only allowed to be won by the best player, Messi should be winning every year.

 

[Rajiztar]

Jorginho, the best player in the world? fecking hell. He shouldn't be anywhere near even being considered

No mate. 55 journalists and managers of participating euro,cl and el voted and selected jorginho in top 3. I am sure most trusted them I think.

 

[sewey89]

No mate. 55 journalists and managers of participating euro,cl and el voted and selected jorginho in top 3. I am sure most trusted them I think.

You seriously think that Jorginho is one of the 3 best players in the world? I wouldn't even have him in the top 3 Chelsea players. Midway through last season he was being absolutely crucified by anyone and everyone

 

[Pickle85]

If it's only allowed to be won by the best player, Messi should be winning every year.

*Rolls eyes*

 

[NinjaZombie]

*Rolls eyes*

Kind of hard to understand what you're saying here.

 

[Deery]

Messi should win the Ballon d’Or this year but will probably be Jorginho.

Jorginho Ballon d’Or winner, that’s just not right…

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Shawberto Ballon d'Or.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jorginho, the best player in the world? fecking hell. He shouldn't be anywhere near even being considered

It still cracks me up