Have football awards become too much about who won and not the best player?

[Zehner]

Yes!

 

[chilax]

No!
I feel you’re just salty none of your fancy “world class” midfielders made the list.
My opinion

 

[bosnian_red]

The trophies have to matter though. Nobody gives a feck about how someone plays against Burnley but it matters a lot more in a CL or Euro final and leading the team to success (or being a big part on the road to it). Unless someone has a phenomenal individual season despite a team not being successful, I'm very OK with giving the award to the most impactful player on the most successful teams across the year. Ronaldo and Messi have broken it the past 13 years of course, but you look at Modric in 2018. He was phenomenal in the World Cup and deserved it IMO. That competition means more than any other competition and he performed when others didn't.

Lewandowski should've for sure won it last year but they canceled it for some reason. This year he had a great league performance and I'd still possibly lean him, but he got knocked out of the group stage in the euro, and they got knocked out early in the CL. Not all his fault, but getting injured sometimes robs you of winning personal awards. It is what it is. There has to be a balance of individual performance, but tbf, Jorginho had a fantastic euros, and was excellent since Tuchel took over Chelsea and played a massive part for both Chelsea and Italy. It's fair that he has a shout as he had a fantastic season, better than De Bruyne's, better than Kante's, better than Ronaldo's.

If I had to pick a top 3, it'd be between Messi (usual individual great season, plus won the Copa), Lewandowski (record breaking league campaign and for last year being screwed out of one), and Jorginho (CL and Euro winner while playing a key role in both).

 

[adexkola]

Jorginho shouldn't even be in the running. By that logic if England won the Euros Mason Mount would be on the shortlist. Some of you need a lie down.

 

[Cassanata99]

The award should, in my opinion, be awarded to the player who has had the best year in football. That is a combination of individual ability and titles won (or perhaps how far a player took his team relative to the strength of other teams in the competition in special cases).

You can't award something based purely on a player's ability, talent or how well they were perceived to play through the year. The reason being is that those things are very much subjective. You need to have some sort of objective metric as well. That's why number of titles won, or advancement in tournaments, is used too.

Take two players. Both played well throughout the year. One scored 30 goals, played beautiful football but ended up trophy-less. The other scored 20 but ended up winning every trophy going and scored important goals along the way. Who actually had the better year? Arguably the second player. And that would most likely be the opinion amongst the players themselves. Every player wants to perform well individually but they always stress the teams collective success in winning titles is the most important thing.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

The trophies have to matter though. Nobody gives a feck about how someone plays against Burnley but it matters a lot more in a CL or Euro final and leading the team to success (or being a big part on the road to it). Unless someone has a phenomenal individual season despite a team not being successful, I'm very OK with giving the award to the most impactful player on the most successful teams across the year. Ronaldo and Messi have broken it the past 13 years of course, but you look at Modric in 2018. He was phenomenal in the World Cup and deserved it IMO. That competition means more than any other competition and he performed when others didn't.

Lewandowski should've for sure won it last year but they canceled it for some reason. This year he had a great league performance and I'd still possibly lean him, but he got knocked out of the group stage in the euro, and they got knocked out early in the CL. Not all his fault, but getting injured sometimes robs you of winning personal awards. It is what it is. There has to be a balance of individual performance, but tbf, Jorginho had a fantastic euros, and was excellent since Tuchel took over Chelsea and played a massive part for both Chelsea and Italy. It's fair that he has a shout as he had a fantastic season, better than De Bruyne's, better than Kante's, better than Ronaldo's.

If I had to pick a top 3, it'd be between Messi (usual individual great season, plus won the Copa), Lewandowski (record breaking league campaign and for last year being screwed out of one), and Jorginho (CL and Euro winner while playing a key role in both).

In relation to the bolded, sometimes a world class performance by one player is enough to squeak out a win in an otherwise disjointed performance against Burnley which clocks up three points which may win a league. I agree that people don't really care, but they should.

I agree 100÷ with Kentonio in this thread. The best player is the best player. Shouldn't matter if wins the CL or if he plays for Norwich. And the best player is the one who shows the highest level consistently over the course of a season. Plenty of mediocre players have raised their games a few times a season -it doesn't make them worthy of praise or awards.

 

[Redlyn]

Yes it totally has, these awards should be completely unrelated to trophies won. If the best player in the world is playing for Bradford or Genk one season, then they should still be recognized otherwise the award is basically meaningless.

But how to determine they are the best player? Wouldn't their numbers be inflated facing corresponding low level opponents? While another player is facing more difficult opponents at the highest stage, under more pressure and still delivering. I think just looking at a players stats in a 2nd tier league or competition it is really difficult to evaluate his greatness.

As an attacker If you want to prove that you are truly the best in the world move to a more competitive team where your talent can be measured against the best defences. So yes if you play for bradford you can't win the ballon dor because you can't sufficiently demonstrate your level.

That said, I don't agree it should necessarily go to someone in one of the teams that won something.

 

[Zen]

Other than one voter fatigue winner in Modric.... I see no massively dodgy wins or even top 3s in recent history(2007-ish), basically two dudes have broke it.

The oddest thing to me is how did Henry go from being 2nd in a nothing season, title wise.... to fifth, as he improved and Arsenal went undefeated... and the winner that year, also only won the league, Shevchenko?

It's wild to me how they used to dish it out. Not so much anymore.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I dunno, Messi and Ronaldo winning most of them between hem seems to point out that it's awarded to the best player. Well except the year Modric won.

 

[Rajiztar]

This best individual award always pro attacking. Defenders,midfielders and goal keepers vital part of any winning team. You can't win as a team even in single game full of attackers alone. Of course attackers vital part of team but it's really discrediting other parts of teams as most awards went to attackers.

Should be best goal keeper in the world, best defender in the world ,best midfielder in the world and best attacker in the world. It's just my opinion.

 

[Kentonio]

But how to determine they are the best player? Wouldn't their numbers be inflated facing corresponding low level opponents? While another player is facing more difficult opponents at the highest stage, under more pressure and still delivering. I think just looking at a players stats in a 2nd tier league or competition it is really difficult to evaluate his greatness.

As an attacker If you want to prove that you are truly the best in the world move to a more competitive team where your talent can be measured against the best defences. So yes if you play for bradford you can't win the ballon dor because you can't sufficiently demonstrate your level.

That said, I don't agree it should necessarily go to someone in one of the teams that won something.

Football is always going to be subjective. Having a voting system based on professionals opinions of their peers seems much fairer than anything stat based to me.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Anyone who thinks Jorginho should win the Ballon D’Or needs to be knocked up side their head

 

[Zlaatan]

In fairness - was it better 20 years ago when winning didn't matter as much and you had situations where David Ginola won awards ahead of our players who just won the treble ?

A small anecdote about Ginola, I saw an interview where he said that SAF had told him that the majority of the United players had voted for him for POTY. Which is a good thing obviously, the best player on a winning team isn't necessarily better than the best player on a losing team.

 

[SCP]

Well none of Jorginho or Kante are the best players in the world, the hype over Kante in the English media is as laughable as Jorginho having the chance to win.

The award will go to Messi.

 

[tjb]

tbh it's always been bad. Henry should have won 2 ballon d'ors in 03 and 04. At the time, most considered him the best player in the world those years, not just through the eyes of the English media. The bias is clear from the fact the he also finished second in both world player of the year awards, despite the fact that both ballon d'ors and fifa world player of the year awards had different winners. The issue - he played for Arsenal, which were and in truth are still the equivalent of an Atletico Madrid on the European stage. If Henry had performed like that for Juventus or United, it would have been a landslide. 2006 was another farce. Cannavaro was not even the best Italian defender at the time, Nesta was and had been for years. Italy didn't win the world cup due to just having good defenders, their draw and the quality of the team all round ensured their success. Yet Cannavaro was singled out when in truth , aside from the Germany and France games they were never truly tested defensively. I also think Ronaldo should have won it in 2007. Kaka's and Ac Milan's league form wasn't great. Ronaldo was brilliant throughout 2007, won the league for United. One game where our entire backing was injured should never have determined the ballon d'or winner. This is without me even getting to Figo robbing Zidane in 2000 or Owen somehow winning in 2001 despite the fact he couldn't even beat out sherringham for the playoffs award that year.

 

[ericPSG]

Spot on - it's an 11 vs 11 sport. Winning/Trophies should be a factor for manager awards. Not player awards.

Even for manager award, it’s a bit unfair
I find more impressive for a manager to bring ajax or lyon in champion’s league SF than winning it with a big club

 

[mshnsh]

If it was about the bpitw winning it than Messi should have won it every year since 2007 except perhaps 2013 and 2014. Others may have won more in any given season (mainly champions league) but if you watched football week in week out, there wasn't any doubt that Barcelona's number 10 was always the bpitw.

Since 2007 when kaka won it, the award became more about the champions league than ever before. If the same criteria were applied before 2007, than the winners list could have been different.

Anyway, Jorginho was neither Italy's nor Chelsea's best player and is actually a dark horse for the ballondo'r. Only one player should win it and everyone knows who it his (hint: he won the copa America)

 

[Lord SInister]

The trophies have to matter though. Nobody gives a feck about how someone plays against Burnley but it matters a lot more in a CL or Euro final and leading the team to success (or being a big part on the road to it). Unless someone has a phenomenal individual season despite a team not being successful, I'm very OK with giving the award to the most impactful player on the most successful teams across the year. Ronaldo and Messi have broken it the past 13 years of course, but you look at Modric in 2018. He was phenomenal in the World Cup and deserved it IMO. That competition means more than any other competition and he performed when others didn't.

Lewandowski should've for sure won it last year but they canceled it for some reason. This year he had a great league performance and I'd still possibly lean him, but he got knocked out of the group stage in the euro, and they got knocked out early in the CL. Not all his fault, but getting injured sometimes robs you of winning personal awards. It is what it is. There has to be a balance of individual performance, but tbf, Jorginho had a fantastic euros, and was excellent since Tuchel took over Chelsea and played a massive part for both Chelsea and Italy. It's fair that he has a shout as he had a fantastic season, better than De Bruyne's, better than Kante's, better than Ronaldo's.

If I had to pick a top 3, it'd be between Messi (usual individual great season, plus won the Copa), Lewandowski (record breaking league campaign and for last year being screwed out of one), and Jorginho (CL and Euro winner while playing a key role in both).

By any logic, Jorginho should be nowhere near any of the best players of the year award.

Neither Kante, but atleast he had the excuse of producing absolutely outstanding performances in the CL final stages.

And De Bruyne is the biggest joke of them all, even bigger than Jorginho.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The trophies have to matter though. Nobody gives a feck about how someone plays against Burnley but it matters a lot more in a CL or Euro final and leading the team to success (or being a big part on the road to it). Unless someone has a phenomenal individual season despite a team not being successful, I'm very OK with giving the award to the most impactful player on the most successful teams across the year. Ronaldo and Messi have broken it the past 13 years of course, but you look at Modric in 2018. He was phenomenal in the World Cup and deserved it IMO. That competition means more than any other competition and he performed when others didn't.

Lewandowski should've for sure won it last year but they canceled it for some reason. This year he had a great league performance and I'd still possibly lean him, but he got knocked out of the group stage in the euro, and they got knocked out early in the CL. Not all his fault, but getting injured sometimes robs you of winning personal awards. It is what it is. There has to be a balance of individual performance, but tbf, Jorginho had a fantastic euros, and was excellent since Tuchel took over Chelsea and played a massive part for both Chelsea and Italy. It's fair that he has a shout as he had a fantastic season, better than De Bruyne's, better than Kante's, better than Ronaldo's.

If I had to pick a top 3, it'd be between Messi (usual individual great season, plus won the Copa), Lewandowski (record breaking league campaign and for last year being screwed out of one), and Jorginho (CL and Euro winner while playing a key role in both).

Yep I agree they matter, particularly for more defensive players, for example if your team wins a big trophy without conceding a goal, it's one of the biggest ways for a defender to "prove" he's a great player, because they don't have the same goals and assists stats etc to go off.

My point is more that it shouldn't be the only factor that matters, there's kind of a laziness in just looking at the teams that won and deciding the best player based off that. Football is a team game, if you play really well but a goalkeeper lets a ball through his legs in a final and you lose, it doesn't make you a worse player, it's out of your control. This has become even more the case now in the past 10 years also where coaching has gone another level in football, where the manager you have matters so much in terms of winning trophies.

I don't think City or Chelsea have any of the best players in the world, the closest is De Bruyne and Kante who would be in the top 10, but even De Bruyne was better a few years ago. They just have really deep teams of very good players that are interchangeable with great managers. But the tendency is to push their players as the best in the world simply because the teams won.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

The trophies have to matter though. Nobody gives a feck about how someone plays against Burnley but it matters a lot more in a CL or Euro final and leading the team to success (or being a big part on the road to it). Unless someone has a phenomenal individual season despite a team not being successful, I'm very OK with giving the award to the most impactful player on the most successful teams across the year. Ronaldo and Messi have broken it the past 13 years of course, but you look at Modric in 2018. He was phenomenal in the World Cup and deserved it IMO. That competition means more than any other competition and he performed when others didn't.

Lewandowski should've for sure won it last year but they canceled it for some reason. This year he had a great league performance and I'd still possibly lean him, but he got knocked out of the group stage in the euro, and they got knocked out early in the CL. Not all his fault, but getting injured sometimes robs you of winning personal awards. It is what it is. There has to be a balance of individual performance, but tbf, Jorginho had a fantastic euros, and was excellent since Tuchel took over Chelsea and played a massive part for both Chelsea and Italy. It's fair that he has a shout as he had a fantastic season, better than De Bruyne's, better than Kante's, better than Ronaldo's.

If I had to pick a top 3, it'd be between Messi (usual individual great season, plus won the Copa), Lewandowski (record breaking league campaign and for last year being screwed out of one), and Jorginho (CL and Euro winner while playing a key role in both).

A star can perform in a big match like the Champions League final and still have his team not win. There have been a myriad of examples of superstars playing extremely well in losing efforts. I'm not sure I see the link between your first sentence and the second because there's an implicit premise that performances go hand in hand with team results, and I don't think that's necessarily accurate.

 

[Superden]

apart from the players who win the awards, does anyone else really care?

 

[Red_Aaron]

Individual awards in team sports are inherently stupid

 

[FattyFooty]

Football is a team sport.

Even Messi needed hes almighty midfield to win the Champions League.