Have United had a better recent history than Arsenal?

[LawCharltonBest]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

 

[FootballHQ]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

How long you going back? Arsenal made endless FA Cup finals in Wenger's later years.

However you've always been better than them in Europe historically. When they were last in the Europa League they lost on penalties to Sporting Clube pretty early so they can't really say they'd win this competition with their eyes closed if they were in it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In our banter era we have had a more successful trophy period than what, more than 90-odd% of all other clubs, it's crazy.

We should have been far better in the league, that's a given. To still be competing like we have for trophies is a bit mad.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

This sounds like an extension of the debate we had last season about whether or not 2nd in league and no trophy was better than 8th and the FA cup.

Trophies are remembered. Nobody remembers a second place outside of the club who finished there.

 

[GazTheLegend]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

No this past few seasons have been absolutely horrendous. Just because Arsenal have been knocked out by the best (and richest, sigh) team in the competition doesn't change that.

If we win the Europa League it would be legendary, given the shitshow that has gone on with us, but we've been deservedly dicked at home by a number of absolutely dross football teams and it's hard to get excited about our future.

 

[Devil_forever]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

They're undeniably a better team and more consistent in the league but fans only care about trophies looking back. In that sense, IF we somehow beat spurs in the final, I'd argue that we would have had a better last few years than them when we look back at it in a few decades.

 

[SungSam7]

This sounds like an extension of the debate we had last season about whether or not 2nd in league and no trophy was better than 8th and the FA cup.

Trophies are remembered. Nobody remembers a second place outside of the club who finished there.

Not true for the second part. I remember who came 2nd and 3rd the year Leicester won the league.

 

[justsomebloke]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

Arsenal, obviously. The basic measure of the quality of a team is league position. Not cups.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

If i was a potential season-ticket holder with two options available, i'd prefer to pay money to watch them on a weekly basis than us over the last few seasons.

 

[Quinton's_Fortune]

Depends how you qualify it. United have been more successful in terms of trophies (which really is all that should matter) but Arsenal appear to be better suited to challenge for the league in the long term with the likes of Gabriel, Saliba, Saka, Rice and Odegaard forming the core of their XI (maybe even more so than Liverpool considering the age of their squad).

I think I would prefer to be in Arsenal's position ATM.

The importance of the Europa League is centred around Amorim's rebuild and the money that would flow from the CL - The overwhelming feeling is relief and not joy - With that said, I am able to appreciate and enjoy these wins more than I did when I was younger due to taking the constant league success for granted.

 

[justsomebloke]

This sounds like an extension of the debate we had last season about whether or not 2nd in league and no trophy was better than 8th and the FA cup.

Trophies are remembered. Nobody remembers a second place outside of the club who finished there.

Really? Well then why does everyone talk about the last decade as one of abject failure, decay and pain? We won five trophies during that span. Looking back, nobody seems to care much. We won the FA cup under LVG, then fired him and not many people think that was wrong. We won a Carabao and a EL under Mourinho, which doesn't prevent his reign from being widely regarded as a period where the club seriously lost its way. We won a Carabao and an FA Cup under EtH, which was great fun, but is anyone going to remember his period as anything other than a horrible failure?

If that decade had instead seen us consistently challenging for a PL title as closely as Arsenal has been doing for the past 3 seasons, do you think we'd be as negatively regarded as we are now? For my part, I'd trade all of those 5 trophies for just 3 or 4 seasons of being real title challengers.

 

[Wolfbot]

We're not as good a team, that's undeniable.

It's great that we've managed to keep winning trophies during our worst years though, not many clubs can say that.

Cup finals are exciting, and winning trophies will be remembered more fondly than finishing 2nd or 3rd in years to come. With our average to poor league form in most seasons though, and no legit title races speak of in recent years, we don't get the enjoyment week to week the fans of more consistent clubs at the top end of the table do.

So we've had more tangible success but I don't think it's fair to say we've had a 'better recent history' which would imply we were the better team rather than a good cup team.

 

[SER19]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

This will be our 8th final post Ferguson. Weve won 2 fa cups, 2 league cups, a europa league and finished 2nd twice and 3rd twice in that time.

Its been an awful decade but would be a successful one for most clubs

 

[hellhunter]

I don't think this can be looked at without the context of money spent and squad worth.

Our hail isn't that bad by any means, but with our investment come expectations, and I don't think anyone would claim we did them justice

 

[Heardy]

Arsenal have been the better side, but we've been more successful. That's the long and short of it really.

As good as Arsenal have been, they're "almost" men - they've got nothing to show for their "better" form over the last however many years.

 

[DaniDan]

No.

At the end of the day, it’s not just about trophies. It’s about looking forward to the weekend, enjoying good football, and getting excited for Champions League nights midweek.
Honestly, watching Man United over the last 10 years has been nothing short of depressing. Meanwhile, I’m sure Arsenal fans have had a lot more fun, especially in recent seasons

 

[Hammondo]

You either gets trophies or are a loser.

 

[foolsgold]

Really? Well then why does everyone talk about the last decade as one of abject failure, decay and pain? We won five trophies during that span. Looking back, nobody seems to care much. We won the FA cup under LVG, then fired him and not many people think that was wrong. We won a Carabao and a EL under Mourinho, which doesn't prevent his reign from being widely regarded as a period where the club seriously lost its way. We won a Carabao and an FA Cup under EtH, which was great fun, but is anyone going to remember his period as anything other than a horrible failure?

If that decade had instead seen us consistently challenging for a PL title as closely as Arsenal has been doing for the past 3 seasons, do you think we'd be as negatively regarded as we are now? For my part, I'd trade all of those 5 trophies for just 3 or 4 seasons of being real title challengers.

Just how close have Arsenal been though ? They may, or may not hang onto 2nd place this year, but they are miles off the champions. They went close last year I'll grant you, the year before they finished 2nd but quite far off City whilst we finished 3rd. Prior to that they weren't in a champions league place, while we had 2nd place finishes under Ole and Jose. So really last season was the only close finish. I'll take the trophies every time.

 

[NinjaZombie]

This will be our 8th final post Ferguson. Weve won 2 fa cups, 2 league cups, a europa league and finished 2nd twice and 3rd twice in that time.

Its been an awful decade but would be a successful one for most clubs

Not gonna be bothered by the Arsenal United debate but really, our banter era is another club's golden era.

Just look at the Newcastle league cup win.

 

[SER19]

Not gonna be bothered by the Arsenal United debate but really, our banter era is another club's golden era.

Just look at the Newcastle league cup win.

Im just hoping all these recent finals and being in bilbao recently stands by us versus spurs. Experience counts and most of our players have played in big finals recently.

 

[bosnian_red]

Since sir Alex retired, we've won 5 trophies (not counting community Shield) and are in another final now. How many around Europes big leagues have won more?

1. Man city
2. Liverpool
3. Chelsea
4. Real Madrid
5. Barcelona
6. Bayern
7. PSG
8. Juventus

That's it... Ok can add Atletico and Inter in there as they won fewer trophies but have a couple of league titles in there. But still among the 10 most successful club in Europe's big leagues in our banter era, nice that we haven't lost the knack of competing for silverware

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If i was a potential season-ticket holder with two options available, i'd prefer to pay money to watch them on a weekly basis than us over the last few seasons.

That logic is undeniable because a season ticket won’t get you in to watch cup finals.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Kinda reminds me of threads that used to pop on on Liverpool forums in the mid 2000s.

 

[Ekeke]

We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years

Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes

Which is better?

Not all cup finals are worth the same. Lets be honest the Europa League final is something a 5th or 6th placed team wants to win. Top 4 want to qualify for the champions league, maybe a cup as an extra on top or a title challenge.

Arsenal's seasons have been better, but not perfect

 

[JJ12]

Arsenal are a better team and in a better position moving forward but I'd much rather win trophies than finishing 2nd.

2nd into CL

Vs

Win Europa into CL

No brainer for me

 

[pacifictheme]

Living through it probably not, but providing we start going up the league then history will look more fondly on us in this period than them I expect.

 

[JJ12]

Kinda reminds me of threads that used to pop on on Liverpool forums in the mid 2000s.

So?

 

[bringbackbebe]

So?

Everyone knows the answer. We're just finding ways of convincing ourselves that we're not crap. League is the ultimate judge of squad performance and capability.

 

[JJ12]

Everyone knows the answer. We're just finding ways of convincing ourselves that we're not crap. League is the ultimate judge of squad performance and capability.

I don't think anyone is saying that though? We are crap and Arsenal are in a much stronger position.

Would you prefer to finish 2nd and get CL football or win Europa and get CL? I'll take the trophy every day of the week.

 

[Rista]

You will find zero Arsenal fans who would want to swap places with us. Kinda tells you something. I would much rather be in their situation. We've come to the point where just CL qualification would be a massive success.

 

[ernst]

The perception of these things changes with time.

Right now, no question Arsenal are the better team, and their fans will definitely have felt much better about their trajectory over the last few years than we have and rightly so.

Twenty years from now, people just count the trophies and remember the big moments.
I think our recent trophy winning seasons will be viewed much more favourably.

 

[Rista]

I don't think anyone is saying that though? We are crap and Arsenal are in a much stronger position.

Would you prefer to finish 2nd and get CL football or win Europa and get CL? I'll take the trophy every day of the week.

But it's such a pointless question. I would in fact prefer if this season we finished 2nd rather than 15th or 17th and won the EL.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

At a single point in time - I would prefer trophies than higher league positions.

However, we are a club that should be working towards winning the PL - and that’s the trophy that matters most. Therefore, to get there, we need to be far better in the league, we need to progress.

Thus, with our ultimate goal in mind, of course I would swap places with Arsenal.

 

[Hammondo]

Not all cup finals are worth the same. Lets be honest the Europa League final is something a 5th or 6th placed team wants to win. Top 4 want to qualify for the champions league, maybe a cup as an extra on top or a title challenge.

Arsenal's seasons have been better, but not perfect

It's higher than the fa cup imo.

 

[hellhunter]

At a single point in time - I would prefer trophies than higher league positions.

However, we are a club that should be working towards winning the PL - and that’s the trophy that matters most. Therefore, to get there, we need to be far better in the league, we need to progress.

Thus, with our ultimate goal in mind, of course I would swap places with Arsenal.

Sensible post, would agree with that

 

[JJ12]

But it's such a pointless question. I would in fact prefer if this season we finished 2nd rather than 15th or 17th and won the EL.

Well obviously

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Not all cup finals are worth the same. Lets be honest the Europa League final is something a 5th or 6th placed team wants to win. Top 4 want to qualify for the champions league, maybe a cup as an extra on top or a title challenge.

Arsenal's seasons have been better, but not perfect

Go back a decade before the winners of the EL got a CL place, and the Europa League was almost considered a punishment for clubs. It was a competition that most clubs (from the bigger leagues) didn’t even want to be in. The only attraction to the EL is the prize of CL football.

 

[Semper Fudge]

Everyone knows the answer. We're just finding ways of convincing ourselves that we're not crap. League is the ultimate judge of squad performance and capability.

You’ve missed the point somewhat.

 

[Offside]

United’s “banter era” is certainly more golden than what Liverpool and Arsenal experienced, and obviously a lot more than City.

You have to remember: between 2009 and 2017 Liverpool had just one CL season where they were eliminated in the group stage. From 2006 until 2019 they won just one single League Cup and nothing else.

Arsenal went 9 years without winning anything from 2005 until 2014. From 2017 until 2023, they didn’t play in the CL at all.

United have won nearly a trophy every other year in the past decade, and have not spent more than 2 years outside the CL. This trend could continue if they win the EL this season.

The difference of course is the title challenges that both Arsenal and Liverpool managed in years where they weren’t winning the league. Still, Liverpool went 30 years without a title and Arsenal are currently on a 21 year drought. United just 12 years. Liverpool managed 4 title challenges in those intervening 30 years (1997, 2002, 2009 and 2019), Arsenal didn’t challenge for the league seriously from 2004 until 2023. So United not challenging at all in the 12 years from 2013 onwards isn’t that bad.

Perspective is needed.

 

[kafta]

Its a confusing one. Arseanl are ahead of us in terms of where their team currently is. But all this team builidng is meant to yeild trophies, and they don't seem close to really winning anything. In fact they look farther away.

So in terms of success, it should just be trophy count. If Arsenal manage of win the league or CL, then it could change. But right now they have won poop, cause second place trophies don't count.