FrankDrebin
Don't call me Shirley
Considering his age and potential, Hendo sitting on the bench every week is just wasted time (and money). The guy needs to leave for his own sake.
What the feck are you on about? Henderson is being talked about because he's already at the club. And he's second choice based on appearances. And he's proven his ability in the Premier League for Sheff Utd.Its a combination of the young english hype/tax combined with the over belief in our youth players. The sort of narrative that sees Ben White sold for £55m .
Hes no better than a heaton, johnstone or foster. None of them were good enough to be a no.1 here but have had reasonable careers lower down the league.
This would be the same national team who sat Jack Grealish, Phil Foden and Jaden Sancho on the bench for an entire tournament including against an ageing Italy team in the final…Who is the first-pick for the English national team again? Pickford is good shotstopper and a nutcase, Henderson is a nobody. Perhaps time to get a loan in the Championship to save his career. Right now there are probably no Premier League-clubs that would swap theirs for Henderson and really benefiting, if at all.
I believe his reluctance to come off the line and his positioning are even bigger issues than his build up play and distribution .This would be the same national team who sat Jack Grealish, Phil Foden and Jaden Sancho on the bench for an entire tournament including against an ageing Italy team in the final…
Yes, great example.
Henderson is clearly a very good keeper. Not as good a shot stopper as DDG, but who is?
DDG’s issues are his build up play and distribution.
Whether Henderson is better at them or not I don’t know, but writing off Henderson because some clueless England manager doesn’t play him is very odd.
Of PL keepers I'd be looking at Sanchez from Brighton too maybe.He's decent, not sure about best young GK though.
what are you on about? He's an okay keeper who is proven at a lower pl club and that will be his level. Decent number 2, wouldnt want him as number one he is evidently a level or two below the very best goalkeepers.What the feck are you on about? Henderson is being talked about because he's already at the club. And he's second choice based on appearances. And he's proven his ability in the Premier League for Sheff Utd.
No player should ever be automatic first choice just because they're Spanish. Your xenophobic angle doesn't hold water.
Why bring nationality into it? It's irrelevant unless you're a bigot.what are you on about? He's an okay keeper who is proven at a lower pl club and that will be his level. Decent number 2, wouldnt want him as number one he is evidently a level or two below the very best goalkeepers.
and xenophobic? Wtf are you talking about?
i’m english you spanner. It is relevant - we always want to overhype young english players and even more so our own academy graduates. He isnt that good, people just went crazy and valued him at silly money after one season with sheffield united and they are in love with the idea of him being ‘englands next number 1’. Other players fall into this category - Tuanzabe for instance. We just saw arsenal pay £55m for Ben White because of this sort of hype for goodness sake.Why bring nationality into it? It's irrelevant unless you're a bigot.
Henderson is equally weak on crosses
I'm actually quite curious to see what you're basing this on, because a quick check of the "crosses stopped percentage" on FBRef puts De Gea in the bottom 12% of keepers in the top 5 leagues in the past year, while Henderson is in the top 2%. And this backs up what I thought was quite apparent from the games they both played last season: Henderson is way, way better at dealing with crosses.Weak in the air, no better at catching/punching than De Gea
Come on mate you've been on this forum long enough to know that any player eligible for the English national team is automatically shite and massively overrated. Especially if they've come through our academy.Why bring nationality into it? It's irrelevant unless you're a bigot.
Why has Dalot taken AWB's spot in the lineup then?i’m english you spanner. It is relevant - we always want to overhype young english players and even more so our own academy graduates. He isnt that good, people just went crazy and valued him at silly money after one season with sheffield united and they are in love with the idea of him being ‘englands next number 1’. Other players fall into this category - Tuanzabe for instance. We just saw arsenal pay £55m for Ben White because of this sort of hype for goodness sake.
ooh lets change the narrative to bigotry from xenophobia. Probably the fact AWB has been in appalling form and was injured for norwich. Not going to change the fact Henderson just isnt that good is it?Why has Dalot taken AWB's spot in the lineup then?
AWB is English and Dalot isn't good enough for a top team.
Maybe nationality is irrelevant and it's just about players to fit the system? Have you considered that instead of your kneejerk bigotry?
Dalot isn't that good either. But he fits the 4-2-2-2 better than AWB. But nobody's calling him overhyped because he's Portuguese, or struggling to understand how he fits in for footballing reasons.ooh lets change the narrative to bigotry from xenophobia. Probably the fact AWB has been in appalling form and was injured for norwich. Not going to change the fact Henderson just isnt that good is it?
i think you just have a bit of a henderson fetish and i said something mean about him which triggered your strange accusation of me being a xenophobe against the english despite being english. Bit of an egg on face moment so you should just move on rather than sidestep from xenephobe to bigot to ‘tactical reasons’Dalot isn't that good either. But he fits the 4-2-2-2 better than AWB. But nobody's calling him overhyped because he's Portuguese, or struggling to understand how he fits in for footballing reasons.
Henderson might not be world class either. But he's a solid PL 'keeper. And he's well suited to playing behind a high line and at claiming crosses in a side that will leave lots of space on the flanks. That might become important for United. Hence the current discussion in this thread.
You've boiled this down to nationality instead of football. That's the problem.
It would make we wonder why Henderson isn't getting a chance.It's about players to fit systems, not star names to fit lineups.
What we're dealing with is a manager wants to play a narrow 4-2-2-2 and a high defensive line.
That means a top class 1-v-1 fullback might no longer be as suitable as a mediocre wingback. Shit happens. Win for Dalot.
It also means United are going to need a 'keeper who's good at sweeping up behind centrebacks who are pushing up. And it means we need a 'keeper who's good at claiming crosses because opposition teams are going to start concentrating their attacks down our flanks since that's where we'll be lacking numbers from now on. On paper at least, this could feasibly be a win for Henderson. Even though DDG doesn't deserve to be dropped on form, it's a discussion that's worth having because it's certainly not clear cut in light of the new team setup.
He won’t answer because they keep ignoring the stats as is really hinders the argument for DDG. I get if people don’t rate Henderson and have reasons for it, the reason they’ve given however are actually his strength so I’ve no idea how they’re assessing a football gameI'm actually quite curious to see what you're basing this on, because a quick check of the "crosses stopped percentage" on FBRef puts De Gea in the bottom 12% of keepers in the top 5 leagues in the past year, while Henderson is in the top 2%. And this backs up what I thought was quite apparent from the games they both played last season: Henderson is way, way better at dealing with crosses.
Some serious underrating of Henderson in this topic. I think he was quite unlucky to get Covid going into the season or he would have still have been our number 1. I'd still pick him - the fact that multiple people in this thread are pointing to De Gea finally growing a pair and coming out to catch 3 crosses in the Norwich game as some sort of remarkable improvement speaks volumes about just how big a liability he can be.
Faulty Fax Machine has always been ridiculously incredible. Hendo is good but doesn't come close to DDG super human standards.Faulty Fax machine was the 12th man on the pitch tonight
Yeah, I don't want to over-simplify and act like Henderson is an established world class keeper, but some of the over-the-top reactions here give me the impression a lot of folks don't actually remember how he performed last season apart from the big mistakes against Liverpool and Sheff United (and the dropped cross against Burnley - that it's worth noting didn't actually cost us). Sure, those were bad, but our defence looked more comfortable with him in the team.I get if people don’t rate Henderson and have reasons for it, the reason they’ve given however are actually his strength so I’ve no idea how they’re assessing a football game
I don't know if Henderson should be our #1, but I'd like to see him given a chance. I'd like to see us rotate the keepers. De Gea makes some great saves that the Deaner could only dream of making, but I have a feeling we will concede less with Henderson in goal. From what I've seen of the two, Henderson seems like someone who can be a great goal keeper, while De Gea is a goal keeper who makes great saves. There's a huge difference...
We had a better defensive record and picked up (way) more points per game with Henderson in goal last season.He had his chance last season for a long run of games and was not exactly impressive.
Yeah I see what you mean. When he played last year, he conceded less goals per game, conceded less chances per game, he had a higher save %, kept the same amount of clean sheets and won 1 less game in 10 less games.He had his chance last season for a long run of games and was not exactly impressive.
Player | Nation | Pos | Age | MP | Starts | Min | 90s | GA | GA90 | SoTA | Saves | Save% | W | D | L | CS | CS% | PKatt | PKA | PKsv | PKm | Save% | ||||||||
David de Gea | es ESP | GK | 29 | 36 | 36 | 3,225 | 35.8 | 46 | 1.28 | 126 | 88 | 67.5 | 18 | 10 | 8 | 12 | 33.3 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||||
Dean Henderson | eng ENG | GK | 23 | 26 | 25 | 2,325 | 25.8 | 22 | 0.85 | 90 | 68 | 75.6 | 17 | 4 | 4 | 12 | 48 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | ||||||||
Goals | Expected | Launched | Passes | Goal Kicks | Crosses | Sweeper | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Player | Nation | Pos | Age | 90s | GA | PKA | FK | CK | OG | PSxG | PSxG/SoT | PSxG+/- | /90 | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Att | Thr | Launch% | AvgLen | Att | Launch% | AvgLen | Opp | Stp | Stp% | #OPA | #OPA/90 | AvgDist | Matches |
David de Gea | es ESP | GK | 29 | 36 | 46 | 5 | 2 | 6 | 4 | 43.5 | 0.31 | 1.5 | 0 | 144 | 321 | 44.9 | 602 | 118 | 37.7 | 34.7 | 256 | 36.7 | 34 | 267 | 12 | 4.5 | 15 | 0.42 | 14.1 | Matches |
Dean Henderson | eng ENG | GK | 23 | 26 | 22 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 15 | 0.24 | 0 | 0 | 60 | 158 | 38 | 332 | 88 | 35.8 | 35.9 | 123 | 31.7 | 33.1 | 137 | 13 | 9.5 | 18 | 1.03 | 14.7 | Matches |
Henderson does seem to struggle a bit during set pieces, and I think some people have mixed that up with crosses in general. He's obviously far better than De Gea at dealing with crosses in live play. It's just dealing with set pieces where he had a few issues last season. Of course, De Gea has always had issues with set pieces as well.I'm actually quite curious to see what you're basing this on, because a quick check of the "crosses stopped percentage" on FBRef puts De Gea in the bottom 12% of keepers in the top 5 leagues in the past year, while Henderson is in the top 2%. And this backs up what I thought was quite apparent from the games they both played last season: Henderson is way, way better at dealing with crosses.
+1simply embarrassing thread. Dean is nowhere near good enough to be number 1 here and will never be. De Gea's potential was obvious to anyone even at very young age, which is why he was starting for Atletico and United at the age of 20-21. Henderson will turn 25 soon with one season at Sheffield United as his career highlight. he will never be number 1 at a club of similar size. he was never wanted by the biggest clubs like De Gea was in his younger years. he most likely won't displace Pickford either, at least not very soon. there's little between Romero and him and because of that, as long as De Gea is in current form, no one should really care whether he's at club or not.
This is even stranger than the "as bad as De Gea at crosses" narrative that we've already established flies in the face of the stats.Dean is nowhere near good enough to be number 1 here and will never be. De Gea's potential was obvious to anyone even at very young age, which is why he was starting for Atletico and United at the age of 20-21. Henderson will turn 25 soon with one season at Sheffield United as his career highlight. he will never be number 1 at a club of similar size. he was never wanted by the biggest clubs like De Gea was in his younger years
Maybe he trusts DDG to start sweeping?It would make we wonder why Henderson isn't getting a chance.
I mean Rangnick presumably knows the requirements of that system as well as anyone else and we know he's already told De Gea he'll have to sweep behind the high line more. And with Henderson having featured a fair bit last season, it's not like using him a bit more would be super controversial. On paper he should be interested in at least taking a look at Henderson, yet that doesn't seem to be the case given the links away.
I know there were stories that Henderson's attitude wasn't perfect, plus he did have Covid at the start of the season, so I wonder if there are other factors putting us off him slightly. Or maybe he's just decided to go already.
Yeah I see what you mean. When he played last year, he conceded less goals per game, conceded less chances per game, he had a higher save %, kept the same amount of clean sheets and won 1 less game in 10 less games.
Stats are all below. Henderson was better in every way aside from PsxG, which means feck all anyway if your keeper is conceding more goals and chances in the first place.
https://fbref.com/en/squads/19538871/2020-2021/all_comps/Manchester-United-Stats-All-Competitions
Player Nation Pos Age MP Starts Min 90s GA GA90 SoTA Saves Save% W D L CS CS% PKatt PKA PKsv PKm Save% David de Gea es ESP GK 29 36 36 3,225 35.8 46 1.28 126 88 67.5 18 10 8 12 33.3 5 5 0 0 0Dean Henderson eng ENG GK 23 26 25 2,325 25.8 22 0.85 90 68 75.6 17 4 4 12 48 1 0 0 10 Goals Expected Launched Passes Goal Kicks Crosses Sweeper Player Nation Pos Age 90s GA PKA FK CK OG PSxG PSxG/SoT PSxG+/- /90 Cmp Att Cmp% Att Thr Launch% AvgLen Att Launch% AvgLen Opp Stp Stp% #OPA #OPA/90 AvgDist Matches David de Gea es ESP GK 29 36 46 5 2 6 4 43.5 0.31 1.5 0 144 321 44.9 602 118 37.7 34.7 256 36.7 34 267 12 4.5 15 0.42 14.1Matches Dean Henderson eng ENG GK 23 26 22 0 0 5 0 15 0.24 0 0 60 158 38 332 88 35.8 35.9 123 31.7 33.1 137 13 9.5 18 1.03 14.7Matches
Seriously go down that route, have a look at De Gea's performance for the last 3 years he was practically throwing them in. Barcelona, Everton plus many more besides. Even this season, where he's apparently been great, he doesn't sweep or come for high balls, concedes 1.5 goals a game. He gets beat at his near post too much, there was at least 2 goals where he just stood on his line and could have come out for the ball. Then you have the Arsenal goal, which is has to the worst goal any keeper has ever conceded in the league.He never looked a number one goalkeeper and the goals were at times horrific. Beaten by a header which went straight over his head for one. His positioning was tragic and you never felt he was going to bail us out with a wonder save.
However feel free to continue with this weird myth of how him saying he is confident makes the team more secure with him behind him as thankfully he will never ever be our long term number one and will most likely be gone pretty soon
That's true and full credit to DDG for his 'desire' to fight for the spot.You don't know this for certain. Solskjaer himself seemed very undecided and it seems he was stringing Henderson along IMO.
De Gea was one of the earliest back to preseason training. He's been on a mission to keep his spot and he's responded to the Henderson challenge with aplomb
Can’t figure out how to bold certain parts of another user’s comments on the caf yet, but that first bit about AWB being shit at defending and shot stopping still being the most important part of keeping is spot on.Bad example IMO. Shot-stopping is by far the most important trait in a keeper, tackling is not even the most important (let alone by far) trait for a RB. Positioning for example is more important than tackling when it comes to defending. AWB is actually terrible at defending outside of his tackling and 1 to 1 defending. And when it comes to non-defending part of the game, he is dogshit.
I think a more comparable example is Ronaldo being a WC striker because of his goal-scoring ability.
It also does not help that Henderson is actually worse than De Gea at passing, is probably not better in crosses (attempts more, but also makes mistakes attempting them) and is just slightly better at sweeping. There could have been an argument for him to start over De Gea if he was actually good at those three things (like Dalot is at passing, attacking), but he is not. He is plain average at it.