Heysel - How comes the unjust ban?

[Dave Smith]

I was born in the year of Heysel and it hasn't really been explained to me how UEFA justified the ban on English clubs, other than 'their were issues with all English fans'.

For me, when I look at Heysel I find a couple of things fairly incredible:

1) How did the Dippers get away with such a lenient ban? Seriously, from what happened I am amazed they weren't banned for life. I mean, that wasn't a Hilsborough, that was clearly on their fans.

2) How did the rest of English football react to the ban? I cannot believe that English teams accept a ban on behalf of the Dippers.

 

[r3idy]

Going back in time and this is still a pretty raw subject for some. So not going to get drawn on the debate about Liverpool's punishment.

Happy to be corrected on this but if memory serves correct, UEFA had pretty much their fill of English teams travelling abroad and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Pretty much every game for travelling fans involved some very unsavoury action from the club's firms with town's and citys being smashed up and shops and stores being ransacked. Worth reading some books on the casuals how they used to bring back home a fair haul of Sergio Tacchini, Lacoste, Benetton etc.

There was a lot of anger directed towards Liverpool but the ban was more to do with the perception that English football fans were completely out of control. To be fair to Liverpool fans, pretty much all the clubs in Europe had firms that contributed to this.

 

[Oranges038]

Probably UEFA were fed up of English teams winning it and the fans going round causing damage on away trips. Excellent reason to ban the lot than pick on just one of them.

The stadium had issues and should probably never have even been sanctioned for the game. UEFA were requested to change and refused, none of the reports into the structure were ever used in the investigations as far as I know. They'd have to have admitted that they were at least partly culpable for picking the venue.

 

[TheReligion]

I was born in the year of Heysel and it hasn't really been explained to me how UEFA justified the ban on English clubs, other than 'their were issues with all English fans'.

For me, when I look at Heysel I find a couple of things fairly incredible:

1) How did the Dippers get away with such a lenient ban? Seriously, from what happened I am amazed they weren't banned for life. I mean, that wasn't a Hilsborough, that was clearly on their fans.

2) How did the rest of English football react to the ban? I cannot believe that English teams accept a ban on behalf of the Dippers.

I think interestingly enough it was Everton who suffered the most due to the ban as they had one of their best ever sides during this period and won the league twice. They would have been in the running for EC success. Arsenal also missed out on the EC and Wimbledon could have had a crack at the CWC if the ban hadn't come in.

United missed the CWC and a few UEFA cup campaigns.

 

[ROFLUTION]

When you read Men in Black about the United hooligans, you get a feeling, that this terrible situation at Heysel might as well could have happened with United or other extreme sets of english fans/hooligans.

I always thougt it was such a weird thing to downtalk Liverpool about, when this sad day could have happened with United hooligans as well if they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[TheReligion]

When you read Men in Black about the United hooligans, you get a feeling, that this terrible situation at Heysel might as well could have happened with United or other extreme sets of english fans/hooligans.

I always thougt it was such a weird thing to downtalk Liverpool about, when this sad day could have happened with United hooligans as well if they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think it's that easy without knowing the whole story. There's many a reason why Juventus still hold a grudge against Liverpool over it.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Going back in time and this is still a pretty raw subject for some. So not going to get drawn on the debate about Liverpool's punishment.

Happy to be corrected on this but if memory serves correct, UEFA had pretty much their fill of English teams travelling abroad and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Pretty much every game for travelling fans involved some very unsavoury action from the club's firms with town's and citys being smashed up and shops and stores being ransacked. Worth reading some books on the casuals how they used to bring back home a fair haul of Sergio Tacchini, Lacoste, Benetton etc.

There was a lot of anger directed towards Liverpool but the ban was more to do with the perception that English football fans were completely out of control. To be fair to Liverpool fans, pretty much all the clubs in Europe had firms that contributed to this.

Yes, the ban happened after a number of incidents involving English fans abroad, it wasn’t just Heysel. That was the last straw as you say. IIRC, Liverpool were banned for a bit longer than the rest of the English clubs.

It’s hard to imagine now because football is so anodyne, but the hooliganism thing was a major major issue in the 80s. There’s the odd echo of it nowadays (like the recent reports of clashes between City and Chelsea fans before the CL final), but back then it often happened inside the stadiums.

 

[Cheimoon]

I read Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch recently, and he touches on this subject. What he says aligns with @r3idy's and @ROFLUTION's comments above (and now also @NasirTimothy): while Liverpool fans caused this specific event to happen, their behaviour was completely typical of English fans at the time. The fans of any other English club playing in that stadium in the same circumstances would have been very likely to cause the exact same thing to happen. There was something deeply rotten at the core of English travelling fans at the time.

(Without touching on how Liverpool may or may not have reacted afterwards.)

 

[dwd]

There was an interesting show on itv just last night ‘when english sides ruled Europe’ or something. I didn’t know how close Villa were to being kicked out of the semi due to hooliganism. I’m a bit too young to remember but seemed a totally mental time for all English clubs at that time.

 

[11101]

England had a big problem with hooliganism at that time, I still remember the streets around stadiums getting torn up on Saturdays even in the 90s. I think UEFA just had enough and needed to set an example.

Liverpool didnt stand out in England, but they were worse than most of the other teams we were sending to Europe, and they were qualifying every season too.

 

[SER19]

I wasn't around then but the thought seems to be that it was a final straw after terrible travelling by English teams.

The utter state of some Chelsea fans in Portugal suggests little has changed among the neanderthals

 

[The Cat]

I would have been mid teens and what I can remember is a pressure cooker building up both home and abroad. Hooliganism was out of control and this was a terrible night that forced UEFA's hand.

I don't actually think they got it wrong something had to be done.

Thankfully these days the British clubs' supporters aren't anything like as bad.

 

[Foxbatt]

Liverpool was the unlucky one I feel. If not Liverpool another English club would be in the same boat. Hooligans were a huge issue. United fans were fighting at the away games. OT was safe. It was also racism too.
Who can forget Combat 18, The neo Nazi group associated with Chelsea? Of course The Red Army of United.

 

[FootballHQ]

Yes, the ban happened after a number of incidents involving English fans abroad, it wasn’t just Heysel. That was the last straw as you say. IIRC, Liverpool were banned for a bit longer than the rest of the English clubs.

It’s hard to imagine now because football is so anodyne, but the hooliganism thing was a major major issue in the 80s. There’s the odd echo of it nowadays (like the recent reports of clashes between City and Chelsea fans before the CL final), but back then it often happened inside the stadiums.

It didn't really go away either when English came back in the 90s. Englands fans rioted at France 98 and Euro 2000 when really should've been kicked out of the tournament. In the long run was a really good thing the next tournament was in Korea/Japan rather than Germany as seemed that cooled things down together with tighter restrictions for travelling England fans through official sources for tickets although still seems there's little flare ups whenever playing someone like Holland away in a friendly and was scuffles with Russians at euro 2016.

Not completely gone away but much better than 90s.

Obviously all seater stadiums and the more middle class nature of premier league has sanitised the atmosphere around football now and that's reflected in european followings.

Heysel was awful though and something had to be done given the deaths.

Have to say the rebuilt Heysel is probably my least favourite major stadium in europe, fans still a long way from the pitch and big fences behind the goals but beside the point.

Edit: Can also remember the issues with Gala at end of 90s. Two Leeds fans who lost their lives in Istanbul and then Arsenal fans rioted against them in the final a few weeks later in Copenhagen. One of the reasons it spilled over into euro 2000 as Turkey had qualified and were playing close to one of the England games.