High-end player wages: a help or a hindrance?

[fastwalker]

Whilst I am all for free market capitalism, I must confess I felt a real sense of unease reading a recently published article by the Radio Times on the highest paid Premier League football players. According to the article, half of the top ten highest paid players on the list are United players, Pogba, De Gea, Verane, Sancho and Ronaldo. Three are from City, one from Chelsea and one from Arsenal. Of these, as we know, City are current Premier League Champions, whilst Chelsea are current Champions League cup holders. By contrast, United are not only trophy-less, we have not won a major trophy for four years, whilst Arsenal are also trophy-less, although their last major trophy was the 2019-20 FA Cup.

In a highly competitive market, there are clearly advantages associated with better pay and these do not need to be rehearsed again here. However, genuine questions have to be raised about value for money, when 50% of the top ten highest earning players in the Premier League are United players with no trophies to show for it for nearly half a decade. Some will argue that because of the vast revenue generating power United has (according to Deloitte, United's wages to revenue ratio was 56% in 2020, the third lowest in the Premier League) the size of player wages is relative and therefore does not matter. But as a United fan and particularly given our lack of success, are you comfortable with that?

Ultimately, in United's case, do you think that higher player wages are a help or a hindrance?

 

[Isotope]

It's been successful strategy so far. Especially leaving player with one year left in their contract, before deciding what to do.

 

[L1nk]

Whilst I am all for free market capitalism, I must confess I felt a real sense of unease reading a recently published article by the Radio Times on the highest paid Premier League football players. According to the article, half of the top ten highest paid players on the list are United players, Pogba, De Gea, Verane, Sancho and Ronaldo. Three are from City, one from Chelsea and one from Arsenal. Of these, as we know, City are current Premier League Champions, whilst Chelsea are current Champions League cup holders. By contrast, United are not only trophy-less, we have not won a major trophy for four years, whilst Arsenal are also trophy-less, although their last major trophy was the 2019-20 FA Cup.

In a highly competitive market, there are clearly advantages associated with better pay and these do not need to be rehearsed. However, genuine questions have to be raised about value for money, when 50% o the top ten highest players in the Premier League are United players with no trophies to show for it for nearly half a decade. Some will argue that because of the vast revenue generating power United has (according to Deloitte, United's wages to revenue ratio was 56% in 2020, the third lowest in the Premier League) the size of player wages is relative and therefore does not matter. But as a United fan and particularly given our lack of success, are you comfortable with that?

Ultimately, in United's case, do you think that higher player wages are a help or a hindrance?

Nobody should be comfortable with the wages we pay. For some reason we have an idea in our heads of rewarding mediocre players with new contracts - because it's cheaper than replacing them with better players. Then for some reason we offer massive wages, again, I don't know why? Apparently the Glazers and their cronies are astute business men yet our players have taken them for absolute mugs when it comes to wages.

 

[Ribble Valley Red]

I really don't care too much about our wage bill as long we don't let it get out of control so that the safety of the club is at risk. As fans we really don't know the details in contracts, just like we don't know what the behaviours, attitudes and training levels of the players and staff are. I'm all for discussion and debate on a forum like the caf, so definitely wouldn't criticise those that do care, it's just not for me.

 

[clarkydaz]

Money is the only language our board have been able to speak since Fergie left

 

[Oranges038]

I think when you have players earning such ridiculous amounts it removes a certain amount of hunger and motivation. Especially when those players like Ronaldo, Varane, Pogba and DDG to an extent, feel like they have nothing left to prove.

Combine that with the shit show that is Utd at the minute and it's just a recipe for the stagnation we are witnessing.

 

[L1nk]

I think when you have players earning such ridiculous amounts it removes a certain amount of hunger and motivation. Especially when those players like Ronaldo, Varane, Pogba and DDG to an extent, feel like they have nothing left to prove.

Combine that with the shit show that is Utd at the minute and it's just a recipe for the stagnation we are witnessing.

I think it also has a negative effect on young players like Rashford who have achieved absolutely nothing yet somehow get on these incredibly high wages for their age

 

[Ali Dia]

Just the board and owners literally having to pay for their utter incompetence and years of slow and horrible decisions. Here’s x amount of money more than you’ll get elsewhere for y amount of stagnant years here so we don’t have to reinvest. Of course players aren’t motivated. The whole direction of the club is lacking. Money over success and has been for a very long time going all the way back to Fergies no value in the market and the horse thing letting the glazers in.

 

[Oranges038]

I think it also has a negative effect on young players like Rashford who have achieved absolutely nothing yet somehow get on these incredibly high wages for their age

Yeap, I'm sure there are very few people who wouldn't allow it go to their head.

 

[Charrockero]

This problem persists in World Football, not just Man Utd.

I hate and detest NFL/NBA league, but one thing I do recognize is their structure and norms to draft players and to place salary caps. It guarantees better competition and internal safety from the clubs.

But asking UEFA/FIFA to copy or model good things is a wet dream. Uncapped salaries and transfers mean more money to 3rd parties, not only football Agents, but relatives, board members, lawyers, accountants, etc... Just take a look into the Neymar mess for Barcelona and now the M'bappé transfer to Real Madrid. The first one is an example of pure corruption and the second one will be a "free transfer" full of legal fees and incentives to many people.

Also, these uncapped/unobserved fee/wages problems have been ongoing for at least 3 decades... But they kinda exploded into the eyes of the fans with the injection of oil money from Oil Clubs. Their entry into the football market signified a huge inflation of prices and it's not going to stop, to the contrary, we will keep looking at more and more money being wasted for our entertainment.

 

[The Cat]

Absolute hinderance. This is why other clubs will not take the players we don't want any more - every single move is gonna be less money.

Modest transfer fees are possible - other clubs paying wages close to what we do for players we want to get rid of isn't going to happen.

 

[AndyMUFC86]

By paying our players extreme wages breed’s the attitude “I’ve made it” ultimately for me this is one of the biggest issues with our club right now. We have players who don’t actually want to be with us. They stick around because of the money. When we are looking to sell players no other clubs can offer them anything like what we pay them. This results in us having players like Phil Jones. We couldn’t give him away now because no other club would pay him £5k let alone £100k. This has been a real bug bearer of mine for a while now but the club won’t learn. They never do

 

[Leftback99]

There's no reason our squad players who have achieved nothing should be on higher wages than the best players at Spurs or West Ham for example. If they wouldn't get the same elsewhere why pay it?

 

[GBBQ]

Yeah there’s obviously a disconnect between what we pay and what we get in return. Shameful really especially when some of the highest earners are the first to throw the rattle out of the pram.

In general I’d rather it goes to players than investors but just not these players.

 

[finneh]

I think there's a big difference between being against huge wages and being against managerial incompetence.

I'm hugely pro a free market for uniquely talented individuals to earn what their talents deserve but firmly against the managerial incompetence that has average players earning extraordinary salaries (unless done by our rivals of course).

Common sense however suggests that it can't continue indefinitely.

 

[a_devil_inside]

We do pay way over the odds, then find it hard to sell them on because nobody else will pay that much.
Sancho is on ridiculous amounts so I don’t know what is going to happen when he needs a new contract.
Pogba took us to the cleaners, and we were stupid enough to agree to it.
Even the likes of Williams, few good games then giving him a new contract that he didn’t deserve.
Varane said he wanted to come here, or did he want one last big payrise and knew we would be the ones to give him it. It’s the main reason players come here.

Luckily we can afford to do this but we should try and move away from it, we won’t as players will want equal pay and there is no sign of wage caps.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

We have a good policy of keeping wages within a specific percentage of income and I don't mind the high salaries.

United's problem is how these contracts are structured. There appears to be little incentive for players to perform to the best of their abilities so they get these fat contracts and rest on their laurels. For me this is why we're where we are today. We should offer reasonable weekly wages with outrageous bonuses for titles and individual honours.

 

[wolvored]

If true that its now 56% wages to revenue ratio is alarming. For decades we were the club always under 50% and for the majority well under it.
The answer is simple. Stop chasing after the Rices Haarlands etc and scout more of the Brunos.
Also find alternatives to high end players at the end of their careers coming here for a fortune, then not hitting the heights previously, if this is a reoccuring problem in the future, then replace whoever is scouting these players.
Stop giving stupid contracts to young players. let them climb gradually, if deserved. Look how Rashford and Martial doubled their salaries, for what?. Whats wrong with short steps if deserved?

 

[World Game]

Hindrance

1. Opportunity cost
2. Less motivation for the player to keep improving
3. Dressing room instability - leads to more players demanding higher wages
4. Hard to move on players

We pay Rashford 200k a week. For the same price Liverpool has Salah.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Hindrance

1. Opportunity cost
2. Less motivation for the player to keep improving
3. Dressing room instability - leads to more players demanding higher wages
4. Hard to move on players

We pay Rashford 200k a week. For the same price Liverpool has Salah.

Couldnt put it any better than that.

This is a banking culture created by the Glazers and applied to a football club. Just look at Ronaldo on 500k per week, nothing to do with his football ability but everything to do with his marketing power.

 

[Someone]

I'm more worried about us overpaying wages for unproven players, which in turn makes it very difficult for us sell them if we want to.

Overpaying for top talents should be fine if they actually manage to perform, but for some reason with United it's not happening.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I'm more worried about us overpaying wages for unproven players, which in turn makes it very difficult for us sell them if we want to.

Overpaying for top talents should be fine if they actually manage to perform, but for some reason with United it's not happening.

This is probably the most bizarre thing of the whole situation. When players, managers are moving from lesser clubs such as Maguire from Leister/Ole from Molde with no competition for them. Why on earth are we paying them a kings ransom

 

[AndySmith1990]

This is probably the most bizarre thing of the whole situation. When players, managers are moving from lesser clubs such as Maguire from Leister/Ole from Molde with no competition for them. Why on earth are we paying them a kings ransom

Exactly. I don't know how much Maguire was on at Leicester, let's say £80k. If we then offer him £90k what's he going to do, decline and stay at Leicester and earn less? I see no sense in doubling players wages when we sign them, unless it's a star player who is attracting interest from elite clubs. Players should be proving their worth before getting significant pay rises. We'd then at least be able to sell them on if they flop within the first couple years of joining.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Exactly. I don't know how much Maguire was on at Leicester, let's say £80k. If we then offer him £90k what's he going to do, decline and stay at Leicester and earn less? I see no sense in doubling players wages when we sign them, unless it's a star player who is attracting interest from elite clubs. Players should be proving their worth before getting significant pay rises. We'd then at least be able to sell them on if they flop within the first couple years of joining.

Absolutely. Whoever is in charge of negotiations contracts is completely incompetent and out of their depth.

 

[Dan_F]

Hardly surprising given how much Woodward used to brag about the income, social media following etc. Mix that with years of incompetence on the football side of things and it leads to agents/clubs demanding top money.

We’re desperate to improve and have the money.

 

[sunama]

Yeap, I'm sure there are very few people who wouldn't allow it go to their head.

Yep.
If I were 21 and on a huge wage, it would definitely go to my head. No question about it.
I'd be a top 0.0000000001% of earners in the UK, at such a young age.

 

[AndyMUFC86]

We have a good policy of keeping wages within a specific percentage of income and I don't mind the high salaries.

United's problem is how these contracts are structured. There appears to be little incentive for players to perform to the best of their abilities so they get these fat contracts and rest on their laurels. For me this is why we're where we are today. We should offer reasonable weekly wages with outrageous bonuses for titles and individual honours.

Totally agree. At least then your providing additional motivation to succeed. Unfortunately that’s the way these mercenaries work these days. As it stands the players are getting their pockets lined wether there performing well or sat in the stands

 

[AndyMUFC86]

Couldnt put it any better than that.

This is a banking culture created by the Glazers and applied to a football club. Just look at Ronaldo on 500k per week, nothing to do with his football ability but everything to do with his marketing power.

Hard to say ronaldo’s salary is nothing to do with football. Pretty sure he’s the best player to ever play the game and has until now hit the back of the net freely since around 2006.

Ultimately I agree with the original post but I think you could have chosena better example than Ronaldo

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Hard to say ronaldo’s salary is nothing to do with football. Pretty sure he’s the best player to ever play the game and has until now hit the back of the net freely since around 2006.

Ultimately I agree with the original post but I think you could have chosena better example than Ronaldo

I probably worded it wrong, Ronaldo certainly does deserve an amazing wage, he’s the GOAT as you say. I was just trying to illustrate the point that the Glazers inflate wages due to non footballing reasons as they need to sell Man Utd the brand.

Players like Rashford, Pogba and Ronaldo have huge appeal to audiences. I read somewhere Ronaldo can make over a million pound per post on social media. Ronaldo has 409million followers, he is the highest paid player in the premier league but it isn’t for his current football skills alone, it’s his brand and fan base too.

The ripple effect is though that we see players like Bruno, Pogba and De Gea demand to be level terms. In turn, the rest of the squad also demand to be paid more as they earn vastly less which creates disharmony. It’s a vicious cycle!

 

[JebelSherif]

Money is the only language our board have been able to speak since Fergie left

He hasn’t left and he’s on the payroll.

 

[AndyMUFC86]

I probably worded it wrong, Ronaldo certainly does deserve an amazing wage, he’s the GOAT as you say. I was just trying to illustrate the point that the Glazers inflate wages due to non footballing reasons as they need to sell Man Utd the brand.

Players like Rashford, Pogba and Ronaldo have huge appeal to audiences. I read somewhere Ronaldo can make over a million pound per post on social media. Ronaldo has 409million followers, he is the highest paid player in the premier league but it isn’t for his current football skills alone, it’s his brand and fan base too.

The ripple effect is though that we see players like Bruno, Pogba and De Gea demand to be level terms. In turn, the rest of the squad also demand to be paid more as they earn vastly less which creates disharmony. It’s a vicious cycle!

100% agree.

 

[hobbers]

We pay higher wages to make up for the fact that our board are idiots and our managers have either been washed up has-beens or belonged to the lower tiers of football like Ole.

Basically for the last decade we've decided to attract the best players with money rather than ambition. And this is what happens when you do that.

 

[AndyMUFC86]

We pay higher wages to make up for the fact that our board are idiots and our managers have either been washed up has-beens or belonged to the lower tiers of football like Ole.

Basically for the last decade we've decided to attract the best players with money rather than ambition. And this is what happens when you do that.

So true, and when you bring players in that aren’t with us for the correct reasons you get half arsed performances.

 

[Crick]

Hinderance. This season is the the perfect example. Wages this year are going to be around £387m compared with around £335m last year. The highest in the league. We are approaching 60% of wages to turnover for the first time. We have always been at 50% or below.

Ronaldo is on £510k per week net. 867k gross for a player who doesn't suit how we play for Ole or RR. Cavani (£250k) and Pogba (£295k) have both been injured most of the season. Pogba, Lingard, Pereira and Tuanzebe were sellable and should have been sold for whatever we could get in the summer. Mata and Grant we could have realeased or offered coaching only roles, on significantly less pay. Cavani and Ronaldo at their ages was never a good idea. Cavani at least suits how we play but Ronaldo who I put no blame on as he has played exactly as he did for Juve, was pure sentimentality. Lingard (100k), Mata (140k maybe 70k depending on source), Jones (80k), Grant (30k), VDB (100k), Bailly (80k), Henderson (100k) and Martial (230k) haven't played. Money wasted.

We are becoming ever more careless with money, for no reward. It could kill us if we carry on. Sponsorships are down on what they used to be, CL isn't guaranteed, debt is getting ever higher and yet we carry on like we have won the league each year.

Yes, we have held on to too many players this year which has added to the problem. This was Ole's decision to keep them due to Covid but not only have we won nothing, we have paid out an extra £50m in wages and missed out on the money we could have received in transfer fees. Hindsight yes but a fairly safe bet for most last summer.

I would much rather spend the £50m used this season on the wage bill on an extra £10m per year for the women's team and try to win the league and get into Europe. It's a disgrace we cut their budget this year and we will probably lose more of our best players in the summer. The other £40m per year could be used to pay down the club debt which seems to go up every year and will probably be £500m next year. This doesn't include the ridiculous £13m dividend the Glazer's take out every year. No other owners in the PL do this. We leak money.

 

[Abraxas]

The thing with wages is they're neither a help nor an obstacle in and of themselves until a few things happen. It's when you don't have success that people start questioning value, and it's when you don't have success that you start to want to rid yourself of underperforming, highly paid players that then become an anchor on the club. These are of course difficult to shift.

You can see this at work with a club like Manchester City. They pay players extremely well but nobody is concerned and they rarely need to make wholesale sales so the figures are of little consequence.

Now, can you start at the beginning of the process and say "we are going to redefine our culture and wage structure." You can, but you already have 25+ blokes on contracts so that is a long-term vision. Any player coming in has access to what a player of his quality should get at Manchester United. So when you do that you're very likely to cut off large swathes of the market. So you're not just talking about a change of financing, you're talking about an entire change in recruitment strategy to target a profile that accepts this. Would that be such a bad thing? Maybe not on current evidence.

But when you're shopping in Aldi and you're Manchester United with significant resources and expectation, you are going to see the opposite thread if things aren't successful. "Why are one of football's powerhouses refusing to finance purchasing the best players."?

What I'd say is get the recruitment right and none of this matters, that's what it always comes down to. Do we need a more nuanced approach to contract renewals and how we reward young players? Quite possibly, that is a well spoken about topic.

 

[In Rainbows]

I don't really have a problem with it if the club find a way to balance that out with lesser contracts.

Exactly. I don't know how much Maguire was on at Leicester, let's say £80k. If we then offer him £90k what's he going to do, decline and stay at Leicester and earn less? I see no sense in doubling players wages when we sign them, unless it's a star player who is attracting interest from elite clubs. Players should be proving their worth before getting significant pay rises. We'd then at least be able to sell them on if they flop within the first couple years of joining.

I agree with the sentiment. For example, there is no way a guy like Harry Kane should be getting paid what he does at Spurs (prior to his latest salary), and then if in a hypothetical he goes to another bigger club, needs wages far surpassing the one he was on at Spurs. Just the transfer to a bigger club is already an improvement on his situation.

If a player is in demand, then it can be necessary. However, if a player of similar skill/standing is able to get lesser wages at other clubs than ours, it should be considered a failure.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

This is probably the most bizarre thing of the whole situation. When players, managers are moving from lesser clubs such as Maguire from Leister/Ole from Molde with no competition for them. Why on earth are we paying them a kings ransom

city were trying to sign maguire tbf. id say that is strong competition

 

[Crashoutcassius]

honestly this is one of the worst threads ive ever read for understanding of football. players have agents, they know what united can pay, they know if you are going to be a starter at united you should ask for the same money as other starters in similar roles. why do you think agents are this stupid and bad at their job that you can offer any money and it will get signed?

it took us an extra year to sign maguire, an extra 6 months to sign fernandes, an extra year to sign sancho... geniuses posting in here saying we could offer them way less cash and it is all so easy and simple. where do you work that you negotiate high profile 50-200m deals every couple of months?