Homophobia in football

[Still ill]

So I've just finished watching an RTE documentary called 'Playing it straight' by a guy called Stephen Byrne on the reasons for the continued lack of an openly gay footballer in the Premier/ Football League. It's an issue that hasn't crossed my mind in a while and it came as a bit of a slap in the face.
Society has changed so much in the last 10 years. The Robbie Fowler thing with LeSaux was funny at the time, right? It seems outrageous now. I'm 46, I've stood on terraces and watched bananas being thrown, listened to grown men with kids making monkey noises. Byrne's basic question was why has this type of behaviour been rightly reviled and tackled while blatent homophobia still goes unchallenged at the majority of grounds?
With the exception of a couple of overly dramatic set-pieces, it was a well put together and important piece of work. Gareth Thomas was very good on it and confirmed that numerous footballers have contacted him for advice.
Do we feel we're anywhere close to a Premier League footballer coming out?

 

[Cassady]

I absolutely love Fowler but did cringe a little when he done that to Le Saux. He has snorting the line antics against Everton made me laugh though.

To answer your question .

Stigma ?

 

[shamans]

Has it ever happened the a footballer has come out as gay and the supporters all turn on him? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen that happen.

 

[MartialsBeard]

We will see openly gay players eventually.

Its cringe worthy in itself that we have to have this discussion at all. once it is common place well look back at how mundane and stupid it was to have them be scared to come out.

Much like we look back and see how ridiculous it was ro have racial preducises in the game. Why should it be aby difference for sexual orientation.

As a straight bloke i couldnt give a shite if any player was gay. How does that impact me? How they play? How the team plays? Not at all is the answer. Any man or woman who says anything about this being a negative is pathetic.

However I will say one thing. No player should have to come out as being gay. Its not a witch hunt, players dont come out and say they prefer blondes so who cares its nothing to do with the game.

 

[Snow]

Football, American football, NBA...just sports in general. About 1 in 10-15 is gay, how many athletes can you name that are gay and are professional athletes (I'm talking men here, not women)? How many tens of millions of professional football players have there been and how many are openly gay? It's not even just professional athletes, I can't name a single one from the leagues back home and we're often touted as the country with the most equality.

Has it ever happened the a footballer has come out as gay and the supporters all turn on him? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen that happen.

As I asked above, how many footballers can you name that have come out?

 

[Mibabalou]

Everyone should read up on Robbie Rodgers. American player who came out a few years ago, and initially retired but then had enough support from all over to play again.

So that alone says yes there still is a huge stigma.

 

[Cheesy]

Has it ever happened the a footballer has come out as gay and the supporters all turn on him? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen that happen.

To be honest I doubt it'd be the worry of their own supporters turning against them...if a footballer is good enough then they'll typically get support anyway, especially when you consider some footballers who are pretty terrible people but get backed because of their ability.

It'd be the stigma of abuse from opposition fans, and maybe even teammates. It'd depend on the club/culture surrounding it but being an openly gay footballer is still a massive, massive rarity and someone who does it will undoubtedly receive a lot of attention.

Some of that attention might not even be bad, as such, but could just be getting asked to do constant TV interviews on the subject when said person might want to keep it as something personal even though it would be seen as a big deal.

 

[Omar Little]

I wonder would it be a good idea for all the closeted gay footballers, to come out, at the same time. Surely across all the leagues, we'd be talking hundreds of players?

 

[redmeister]

Football, American football, NBA...just sports in general. About 1 in 10-15 is gay, how many athletes can you name that are gay and are professional athletes (I'm talking men here, not women)? How many tens of millions of professional football players have there been and how many are openly gay? It's not even just professional athletes, I can't name a single one from the leagues back home and we're often touted as the country with the most equality.


As I asked above, how many footballers can you name that have come out?

I seriously doubt 1 in 10-15 footballers are gay. I'd guess 1 in 40 at most. I think social science research has confirmed that for various reasons certain occupations have a massive over representation of gay people and other under representation. For example the most obvious job stereo types for gay men would be flight attendant and hairdresser, which as it happens are actually the jobs that have the highest percentage of gay males. So it's unlikely to be a case of football having a percentage of gay players equal to that of the general population, but they are just keeping quiet about it. In reality, I suspect there are actually surprisingly few gay footballers.

 

[peridigm]

Absolutely ridiculous that being gay is a negative stigma. Religion... go figure.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

I don't think it has anything to do with fans or sponsorship. Fans love 'real' players and nothing is more realer than coming out, likewise, do you really think Nike will pass up the chance to sponsor the openly gay version of Frank Lampard?

The problem is the players themselves. Now, I don't mean to generalize, but the majority of players still have that high school jock mentality. Imagine your typical testosterone fueled teenage bully, multiply the sense of entitlement by at least 10 and add an insane amount of cash, and stick him in a locker room with an openly gay male. It's not going to end well.

 

[manutddjw]

I've always wondered if the reason why players don't come out is because they don't want the hassle that will come with it. Ironically the hassle won't come from opposing fans or team mates, but from the same media who get on their high horse and bemoan why they don't come out. The first player that comes out will become a huge celebrity and will have every facet of their personal life all over the papers and be followed constantly. A lot of people just don't want that life and as long as they're accepted by teammates and coaches they may not feel the need to be public about it.

 

[Stack]

I don't think it has anything to do with fans or sponsorship. Fans love 'real' players and nothing is more realer than coming out, likewise, do you really think Nike will pass up the chance to sponsor the openly gay version of Frank Lampard?

The problem is the players themselves. Now, I don't mean to generalize, but the majority of players still have that high school jock mentality. Imagine your typical testosterone fueled teenage bully, multiply the sense of entitlement by at least 10 and add an insane amount of cash, and stick him in a locker room with an openly gay male. It's not going to end well.

I think you are quite a long way off base on that one.

 

[11101]

It's a way off yet, and I wouldn't want to be the first, or even tenth player to come out. It's a working man's game for the most part, and plenty on the terraces don't give a s*** about political correctness, homophobia or what you can and can't say. It's not right but tell that to the player when he's getting ridiculed in front of his family, friends and colleagues by thousands of fans.

If people will sing about tragic losses of life there's not a chance they'll keep quiet about someone being gay.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

I think you are quite a long way off base on that one.

Which one and why?

 

[2 man midfield]

It's a way off yet, and I wouldn't want to be the first, or even tenth player to come out. It's a working man's game for the most part, and plenty on the terraces don't give a s*** about political correctness, homophobia or what you can and can't say. It's not right but tell that to the player when he's getting ridiculed in front of his family, friends and colleagues by thousands of fans.

If people will sing about tragic losses of life there's not a chance they'll keep quiet about someone being gay.

This, unfortunately.

In any case, it's irrelevant to football. The media keep asking for one, but it's none of their business. People for the most part want to keep their private lives out of the papers, and gay people are no different.

 

[horsechoker]

Has it ever happened the a footballer has come out as gay and the supporters all turn on him? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen that happen.

Justin Fashanu, I don't know whether fans turned on him but his brother did and never settled down in any club for too long after that. Not to mention he was probably discriminated against by other players and managers.

 

[Oyibo]

Justin Fashanu sadly topped himself based on an issue surrounding his sexuality.

A few years ago, Thomas Hitzelberger game out, ex villa and German International. He's the only footballer I can recall in modern times to "come out".

 

[El General 1994]

It's a way off yet, and I wouldn't want to be the first, or even tenth player to come out. It's a working man's game for the most part, and plenty on the terraces don't give a s*** about political correctness, homophobia or what you can and can't say. It's not right but tell that to the player when he's getting ridiculed in front of his family, friends and colleagues by thousands of fans.

If people will sing about tragic losses of life there's not a chance they'll keep quiet about someone being gay.

Sad but true.

Hopefully by the time my 1 year boy is able to attend West Brom games (on the odd occasions) the culture on the terraces will have changed. Highly unlikely as even playful banter between heterosexual men has to involve anti gay slurs. Unfortunately I'm ashamed to admit that without thinking I will too resort to saying to my mates 'man...don't be so gay' and then cringe when reflecting upon it.

We have a long way to go before things change and they need to change outside of football first.

 

[2 man midfield]

A few years ago, Thomas Hitzelberger game out, ex villa and German International. He's the only footballer I can recall in modern times to "come out".

Forgot all about that. Just shows you how much of a non-issue it is and should be. I remember it being announced, then everyone moved on.

Would have been interesting if he was still playing for Villa/someone else in England though.

 

[Dorian Gray]

It's a way off yet, and I wouldn't want to be the first, or even tenth player to come out. It's a working man's game for the most part, and plenty on the terraces don't give a s*** about political correctness, homophobia or what you can and can't say. It's not right but tell that to the player when he's getting ridiculed in front of his family, friends and colleagues by thousands of fans.

If people will sing about tragic losses of life there's not a chance they'll keep quiet about someone being gay.

Unfortunately, this is correct and the bold part right there is the problem. Being gay is somehow considered inferior to being straight. There shouldn't be any shame or ridicule associated with being gay. A massive shift in mindset is required to get rid of this notion.

 

[Seveneric]

The sport that still doesn't have a handle on racism and still had issues with female referees will not make life easy for a gay/bi person.

Weirdly enough, I don't even think the chanting fans would be the biggest issue for the player, as I think they might be able to tune it out in the heat of the game. The locker room atmosphere would be the most damaging. Wouldn't be surprised that some of these sheltered, man-children probably subscribe to the idea that any gay person in the locker room is lusting after them

 

[Abizzz]

Forgot all about that. Just shows you how much of a non-issue it is and should be. I remember it being announced, then everyone moved on.

Would have been interesting if he was still playing for Villa/someone else in England though.

He came out after he retired though (Pretty sure, correct me if i'm wrong). The premier league isn't in anyway behind other leagues in this respect, if anything they are ahead of other european leagues. If I were a gay professional footballer I'd be very wary of coming out though, not just because of the inevitable idiots abusing you after, but also because it would sort of define you as a footballer. The media would talk endlessly about you being the brave one etc. and it would become really really difficult to actually draw attention to your footballing skills. You'd have to become a world beater not to be defined by that anymore (which is sad in itself).

 

[kentafuji]

I'm not sure why a gay person even needs to come out to the public anyway. Just cos they aren't out in public doesn't mean they aren't out privately, with friends, family and colleagues.

Why do we as the public even need to know their sexual orientation?

I understand its about acceptance, and trying to fight against homophobia and whatnot and trying to get rid of the stigma of being gay, but I just dont see why we need to know if a footballer is gay or straight, or whatever.

DOes it really matter at the end of the day? Will it make them better or worse footballers?

 

[krombacher92]

Justin Fashanu sadly topped himself based on an issue surrounding his sexuality.

A few years ago, Thomas Hitzelberger game out, ex villa and German International. He's the only footballer I can recall in modern times to "come out".

Hitzlsperger was already retired and if I remember correcty, he said that he wouldn't have come out if he was still playing.
Most people in here talk about the abuse of the fans, but I think the biggest reason for footballers not to come out is fear about the reaction of their teammates.

 

[Dans]

Probably because groups of "lads" are prone to voicing opinions that they wouldn't be so ready to do as individuals. Because lads often see women as conquests, that a shag, a bang etc would the culmination of a successful night. As there is a lack of emotion involved in that act, then it's all to do with "giving her one", which they would then directly translate into "him giving him one" or worse, "him wanting to give me one" in the "other world".

They probably feel threatened by that. The idea of being rogered up the jacksie not being something they would ever want to experience and of course believing that all homosexuals would by default want to to that to them, because much as they would almost certainly "give one" to any "piece of skirt" once they'd had enough to drink, so surely must the gay man want to give anyone one too.

They think too much of themselves and too little of others. I also have to think about the women who are objectified by groups of lads and have to wonder why there is such a lack of respect and empathy for our fellow human beings. Life is not all about a shag (unless of course, you have never had one )

 

[pierrethesnack]

Hitzlsperger was already retired and if I remember correcty, he said that he wouldn't have come out if he was still playing.
Most people in here talk about the abuse of the fans, but I think the biggest reason for footballers not to come out is fear about the reaction of their teammates.

Yeah, agree. Especially in the more metropolitan areas. I don't imagine players at Chelsea and Arsenal think their own fans would abuse them, probably more of an internal thing.

 

[Dans]

Yeah, agree. Especially in the more metropolitan areas. I don't imagine players at Chelsea and Arsenal think their own fans would abuse them, probably more of an internal thing.

Groups of lads.............

 

[villain]

I suspect gay players that aren't closeted completely from their family & friends and what not, have told their teammates & managers who keep it to themselves because it's nobody's business.

They're young millionaires who like to go out and party, if someone is gay and not dating women regularly it will pique attention.

 

[jojose]

The post earlier about percentage of gays in football will be significantly lower than the national average is bang on. If the national average is 1 in 10 or something I would suggest the football average is more 1 in 200 or something. Perhaps even smaller than that. The 1 in 10 is averaged out by the far higher percentage in Hairdressing and Flight Attendants, sorry to generalise but it’s a fact.

Just to put a sense of realism on it, the first batch that do come out will be treated differently. Both positively and negatively.

He’ll have to accept he’s going to be on the receiving end of chants, but to be honest, so what? Is there any difference between singing “you bent b@stard” and “you scouse b@stard” for example? My ST is in the Stretford end and I’ve heard songs about Drogba having ebola, Adebayor’s dad scrubbing elephants and his mam being a whore, Wenger being a paedophile, saurez’s buck teeth, Fernando torres being a transvestite, Tevez’s scars, Kompany having a huge fore head etc etc etc so I would guarantee gay footballers would get stick. But that’s all it is, banter! Football fans are a fickle bunch and we only sing negative songs about footballers that really, honestly and truthfully we would like to have in our team. Therefore, if its Aguerro for example, he’d get stick at Old Trafford. If its Curtis Davies, less so.

Of course a percentage of football fans will be homophobic and that percentage in a testosterone, working class game is likely to be higher than your national average. Personally though, any gay chants that will inevitably get going will be banter rather than homophobic hate. Is it necessary? Yeah of course but so is “you granny shagger” and neither will stop. If there truly is no difference between shagging a woman, a granny or another bloke then it should all just be taken in jest.

Another negative is if this guy is the type of player that turns his back on a shot and pulls out of tackles. I’ll hold my hands up and say that I am sure at some point in my time watching football I have shouted “get stuck into him you big puff” when a player has pulled out of a tackle.

The positive spin he will receive is financial. Sponsorship and exposure will go through the roof. That might help others come out but if it’s in your face hyper gay "mincing" its opening the player up to harsher “banter”.

Another positive spin will be if he puts in 4 good performances, he’d be fast tracked to a new contract / England call up due to the excitable PC brigade.

There is lots of talk in the press on the improvement of the national team and many call for a minimum of English players in each starting 11. We’ll never see that rule come in. It’s illegal. We are more likely to see a quota of each team having to play 3 black lads 2 asians and a gay. Like whats happening in South African cricket.

Personally speaking, if a United player came out and his performances and personality where unaffected I couldn’t care less. If Adam Lallana comes out then if the chant “adam lallana, he takes it up the @rse, he takes it up the @rse……” starts, would I join in? Yeah probably. Would I hate Adam Lallana for those 90 minutes? No more than any of the straight Liverpool players.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm not sure why a gay person even needs to come out to the public anyway. Just cos they aren't out in public doesn't mean they aren't out privately, with friends, family and colleagues.

Why do we as the public even need to know their sexual orientation?

I understand its about acceptance, and trying to fight against homophobia and whatnot and trying to get rid of the stigma of being gay, but I just dont see why we need to know if a footballer is gay or straight, or whatever.

DOes it really matter at the end of the day? Will it make them better or worse footballers?

You answered your own question. When you think about what happened to John Fashanu it's fairly obvious why it would be a good thing for up and coming footballers everywhere if being openly gay and playing competitive football became more widely accepted. This will only happen after more and more gay top flight footballers make their sexuality public.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The post earlier about percentage of gays in football will be significantly lower than the national average is bang on. If the national average is 1 in 10 or something I would suggest the football average is more 1 in 200 or something. Perhaps even smaller than that. The 1 in 10 is averaged out by the far higher percentage in Hairdressing and Flight Attendants, sorry to generalise but it’s a fact.

Just to put a sense of realism on it, the first batch that do come out will be treated differently. Both positively and negatively.

He’ll have to accept he’s going to be on the receiving end of chants, but to be honest, so what? Is there any difference between singing “you bent b@stard” and “you scouse b@stard” for example? My ST is in the Stretford end and I’ve heard songs about Drogba having ebola, Adebayor’s dad scrubbing elephants and his mam being a whore, Wenger being a paedophile, saurez’s buck teeth, Fernando torres being a transvestite, Tevez’s scars, Kompany having a huge fore head etc etc etc so I would guarantee gay footballers would get stick. But that’s all it is, banter! Football fans are a fickle bunch and we only sing negative songs about footballers that really, honestly and truthfully we would like to have in our team. Therefore, if its Aguerro for example, he’d get stick at Old Trafford. If its Curtis Davies, less so.

Of course a percentage of football fans will be homophobic and that percentage in a testosterone, working class game is likely to be higher than your national average. Personally though, any gay chants that will inevitably get going will be banter rather than homophobic hate. Is it necessary? Yeah of course but so is “you granny shagger” and neither will stop. If there truly is no difference between shagging a woman, a granny or another bloke then it should all just be taken in jest.

Another negative is if this guy is the type of player that turns his back on a shot and pulls out of tackles. I’ll hold my hands up and say that I am sure at some point in my time watching football I have shouted “get stuck into him you big puff” when a player has pulled out of a tackle.

The positive spin he will receive is financial. Sponsorship and exposure will go through the roof. That might help others come out but if it’s in your face hyper gay "mincing" its opening the player up to harsher “banter”.

Another positive spin will be if he puts in 4 good performances, he’d be fast tracked to a new contract / England call up due to the excitable PC brigade.

There is lots of talk in the press on the improvement of the national team and many call for a minimum of English players in each starting 11. We’ll never see that rule come in. It’s illegal. We are more likely to see a quota of each team having to play 3 black lads 2 asians and a gay. Like whats happening in South African cricket.

Personally speaking, if a United player came out and his performances and personality where unaffected I couldn’t care less. If Adam Lallana comes out then if the chant “adam lallana, he takes it up the @rse, he takes it up the @rse……” starts, would I join in? Yeah probably. Would I hate Adam Lallana for those 90 minutes? No more than any of the straight Liverpool players.

Sound like you need to adjust your own attitude. Watching a few videos of Gareth Thomas playing rugby would probably help.

 

[jojose]

Sound like you need to adjust your own attitude. Watching a few videos of Gareth Thomas playing rugby would probably help.

I know Gareth Thomas well.

Its a figure of speech is what I was getting at. My point was I know I will have said that sort of thing in the past. I know I have called Juan Mata "a little faggot" before. Its not homophobic though. In the same way as "scouse/Scottish/german/cockney/argie twat" isn't racist. People are too easily offended and excitable around certain issues and its that reaction that I suspect creates a reluctance around gay's coming out. I don't know but just my view.

I am sure a gay footballer wants to be treated exactly the same as all of his team mates. If you have ever played a male team sport you'll know the banter is harsh. But that's all its is. He wont want them to not take the piss just because he's gay because then he is being treated differently!

Im sure in training etc Scholsey was called a "ginger prick", beckham a "cockney wanker" etc. If people "accept"...."gay bastard" as just banter (and that's how it is intended) then that isn't Homophobia. Its just assigning a term / generalisation to an insulting word to make it appropriate to that person. Crouchy is a lanky bastard.......that's not heightist or Tallophobia....its just banter

 

[thisbe]

He’ll have to accept he’s going to be on the receiving end of chants, but to be honest, so what? Is there any difference between singing “you bent b@stard” and “you scouse b@stard” for example? My ST is in the Stretford end and I’ve heard songs about Drogba having ebola, Adebayor’s dad scrubbing elephants and his mam being a whore, Wenger being a paedophile, saurez’s buck teeth, Fernando torres being a transvestite, Tevez’s scars, Kompany having a huge fore head etc etc etc so I would guarantee gay footballers would get stick. But that’s all it is, banter! Football fans are a fickle bunch and we only sing negative songs about footballers that really, honestly and truthfully we would like to have in our team. Therefore, if its Aguerro for example, he’d get stick at Old Trafford. If its Curtis Davies, less so.

Of course a percentage of football fans will be homophobic and that percentage in a testosterone, working class game is likely to be higher than your national average. Personally though, any gay chants that will inevitably get going will be banter rather than homophobic hate. Is it necessary? Yeah of course but so is “you granny shagger” and neither will stop. If there truly is no difference between shagging a woman, a granny or another bloke then it should all just be taken in jest.

Another negative is if this guy is the type of player that turns his back on a shot and pulls out of tackles. I’ll hold my hands up and say that I am sure at some point in my time watching football I have shouted “get stuck into him you big puff” when a player has pulled out of a tackle.

The thing is, though, that homophobic slurs aren't banter, in the same way that racism isn't. It really is as simple as that. In the examples of chants you name there are some that could be classified as such - Suarez' teeth, Kompany's forehead, granny shagger, etc - and some that definitely aren't. As far as I'm aware, 'granny shaggers' aren't a group that are regularly subjected to hate crimes just for being who they are.
Edited since you posted while I posted - again, calling Crouch a lanky bastard isn't the same, because tall people aren't a group that's discriminated against. There's a distinction there. And
"I know I have called Juan Mata "a little faggot" before. Its not homophobic though." Yes. Yes, it is. YOU may not be homophobic, but that is.

Using someone's sexuality as a basis for insults isn't on, whether it's meant as banter or not. But a very large part of the population don't care, so I absolutely understand if footballers who are gay prefer to keep that private. But there was a footballer from Sweden who came out some years ago, Anton Hysén. I don't know how things have gone for him since, though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I know Gareth Thomas well.

Its a figure of speech is what I was getting at. My point was I know I will have said that sort of thing in the past. I know I have called Juan Mata "a little faggot" before. Its not homophobic though. In the same way as "scouse/Scottish/german/cockney/argie twat" isn't racist. People are too easily offended and excitable around certain issues and its that reaction that I suspect creates a reluctance around gay's coming out. I don't know but just my view.

I am sure a gay footballer wants to be treated exactly the same as all of his team mates. If you have ever played a male team sport you'll know the banter is harsh. But that's all its is. He wont want them to not take the piss just because he's gay because then he is being treated differently!

Im sure in training etc Scholsey was called a "ginger prick", beckham a "cockney wanker" etc. If people "accept"...."gay bastard" as just banter (and that's how it is intended) then that isn't Homophobia. Its just assigning a term / generalisation to an insulting word to make it appropriate to that person. Crouchy is a lanky bastard.......that's not heightist or Tallophobia....its just banter

You seem to think being gay is justifiably synonymous with being cowardly. With attitudes like that still prevalent you can see why a gay footballer would be reluctant to come out. Basically, you're part of the problem. Calling it "banter" is a lame excuse.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

You seem to think being gay is justifiably synonymous with being cowardly. With attitudes like that still prevalent you can see why a gay footballer would be reluctant to come out. Basically, you're part of the problem. Calling it "banter" is a lame excuse.

The world is too sensitive, intentions have to mean something, if you are saying it as a joke, there shouldn't be a problem. If you are informed it's not taken as a joke and persist, then it's a problem. To be racist/ prejudice etc you have to mean to be surely?

 

[jojose]

You seem to think being gay is justifiably synonymous with being cowardly. With attitudes like that still prevalent you can see why a gay footballer would be reluctant to come out. Basically, you're part of the problem. Calling it "banter" is a lame excuse.

No no no your twisting my words there. Certain words / slurs in certain area's have different meanings. Calling a straight player a "puff" for pulling out of a tackle for example isn't offensive to anybody IMO. Calling a gay player the same for the same action is more of a slur. Insinuating he only pulled out of a challenge because he's homosexual. I don't believe that and that's not what I am saying. I am not narrow minded to think every gay bloke is effeminate. But go back to my original post, I said realistically that's what will happen. And it will. What I am saying is an homosexual footballer shouldn't be offended by it.

The meaning of the word gay is not offensive to anybody. Neither is tall, short, fat, bald, scouse, jock, german, city, Geordie, cockney. Therefore "gay bastard" (and they will get that at football matches) isn't and shouldn't be taken as being any more offensive than short/fat/bald....bastard.

If the first bloke to come out accepts that, there wont be a problem. It wont solve homophobia but that's a social issue not a football one. Things within groups of blokes have a lower level of morals and whats acceptable than in the work place, formal occaisions and general society. That wont change. Ever. To expect the first few gays not to receive a bit of stick is unrealistic. But stick isn't homophobic.

 

[jojose]

The world is too sensitive, intentions have to mean something, if you are saying it as a joke, there shouldn't be a problem. If you are informed it's not taken as a joke and persist, then it's a problem. To be racist/ prejudice etc you have to mean to be surely?

Exactly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The world is too sensitive, intentions have to mean something, if you are saying it as a joke, there shouldn't be a problem. If you are informed it's not taken as a joke and persist, then it's a problem. To be racist/ prejudice etc you have to mean to be surely?

Calling a footballer a "puff/faggot" when you're pissed off at them for pulling out of a tackle is a joke? Righto. Erm. Hahaha?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The meaning of the word gay is not offensive to anybody. Neither is tall, short, fat, bald, scouse, jock, german, city, Geordie, cockney. Therefore "gay bastard" (and they will get that at football matches) isn't and shouldn't be taken as being any more offensive than short/fat/bald....bastard.

Just out of interest, would you often call footballers you watch or play with/against a "black bastard"? Because that's just a description too, right?