But there is no legislation forcing us to play with a No.10 when we don't have an adequate one.
How are we SO bad?
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Well even if we don't play no.10, we will play Matic or Fred in midfield, the situation is the same.
Why is it that injuries on a number of key players should have no bearing on the teams performance on the Caf?
The players are a lot better than we are seeing, & should be challenging for top four, although squad is thin & weak. The problem is we have a Championship level manager who is more likely to get us relegated than top 4.
I mean what you're essentially saying is that any team will be better if you put better players in it, right? Well, no shit.
That however doesn't excuse the fact that Ole is completely underperforming with the players he does have. We are not a vintage Utd side and we have had problematic injuries but this is still a much better squad than we're seeing. usually in the games we've lost/drawn this season we've still had the better 11 on the pitch. At the end of the day it's up to the manager to get a team and the players in it performing to, at a very minimum, their expected level, and if they're not doing that, they don't deserve the job.
The bolded part, I'm not sure how you can possibly believe any of that based on what we've seen under Ole so far. No manager in PL history has ever come back from such a torrid run of form and results and actually made a success out of things. He's done for, it's just a question of when, not if he goes, but sadly I think our useless board actually might think like you do and we'll be underperforming under him for quite some time yet.
The (un)holy trinity of the Glazers, Woody and Ole go a long way in answering the question.
It shouldn't if you have built a good deep squad. We haven't so it does.
Good post
Based on what? When have our regular players this season like Mata, Lingard, James, McTominay, Pereira, Fred, Lindelof and Young shown they are lot better than bottom half of the PL?
When Solskjaar came in as temporary manager these same players, not including 3 singed in summer, were winning & scoring for fun, as we were playing a different mentality of football. Since becoming permanent he reverted to Mourinho style, & the same players have been abysmal. Its shows the players are not as bad as they look, & the main blame goes to our clueless leader.
The results were better than the performances at the time. If you watched them back now you would see them in a different light. We weren't taking loads of shots we were just clinical with our finishing. It also coincided with about as easy a run of fixtures you could possibly pick. Other than Rashford the main goalscorers in that run were Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, who have been mainly missing through injury this season or sold in the summer. None of the other names above were massively important during the winning run or showing far better than we are seeing.
We are 15th. 2 points off the relegation zone, 15 points off the top.. after 9 games
We all know that.
Always worth remembering before posting for many here.
I'm fully aware
OP does have a clear point. Look at Brendan Rodgers. Only been at his club a few months and they are playing and doing well. Frank Lampard at Chelsea has already implemented his style of play and they are looking good. Yet OGS, according to some posters on here, 'needs more time to implement his type of play.'
I also think the coaching staff bear some responsibility. We have looked rubbish for years under different managers, so if it was up to me I'd scrap the whole coaching staff and bring in new coaches who fit my style of play.
I also think the coaching staff bear some responsibility. We have looked rubbish for years under different managers, so if it was up to me I'd scrap the whole coaching staff and bring in new coaches who fit my style of play.
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Look at the positives. We can’t drop below 16th this weekend. Well, only if Norwich absolutely thrash us but I don’t expect that to happen.
How are we so bad. Really simple.
A squad of very average players at best and certainly nothing like good enough.
A coaching team that have achieved absolutely nothing.
A very average manager at best and nothing like good enough to arrest the slump.
A senior management team with zero football ambition and zero ideas how to transform the club into one capable of being the beat.
A squad of very average players at best and certainly nothing like good enough.
A coaching team that have achieved absolutely nothing.
A very average manager at best and nothing like good enough to arrest the slump.
A senior management team with zero football ambition and zero ideas how to transform the club into one capable of being the beat.
Well you have Mata, a playmaker who is afraid if the ball.
Strikers off form and unable to play as a lone striker.
A team who passes the ball backwards not wanting to take any responsibility or be heroes to try and win a game.
We are set up to desperately not lose rather than win.
Strikers off form and unable to play as a lone striker.
A team who passes the ball backwards not wanting to take any responsibility or be heroes to try and win a game.
We are set up to desperately not lose rather than win.
One of the most important issues we have since LVG period is very slow movement around the pitch when in possession. The only time when we did not have that problem is when Ole came here for the first month or so, I would say till the Spurs game.
Check out what are our players doing when they are without a ball. Usually you will see them standing or walking around position where they are at the moment. One player with the ball do the running around, while the others are jogging or standing. Maybe one or two the closest to the ball will move a little bit, the others won't do anything.
Because of movement, the player with the ball usually have only one possible option to pass the ball, and it is easy to defend against that. As no one else will run or swithc positions, defenders have easy job to stay in the position and wait for the ball.
Beside movement, if you watch it carefully you will see that all of our players in the final third, if in central position are waiting for the ball with positioned with the back to the box. They are oriented in the wrong direction, and what they will do when receive the pass is backward pass as they are afraid that they will lose the ball from behind (and they will usually lose the ball and start counter).
Third, technical ability of our players is absolutely terrible for this level, and I would say today even for lower level of football.
Take a note how many times we had below average first touch in the game.
Take a note how many passes are extremely slow and player needs to wait for the ball standing.
Take a note how many passes are to the legs or behind, instead in front of the player who is running and have open space in front of him (look at the situation in a match against Partizan that is common for our players).
Take a note how many times our full backs or wingers will put a ball in the box without hesitation. Usually, you will see that they will stop, pass it back, or wait for someone in the box to show up.
Take a note how many runs in the box you will see during the game.
Take a note how many times our midfielders run into the box from behind to give the option.
So, those are some of the things that makes us easy to defend against. And it is the same with a third manager in a row. I am not sure that Ole and McKenna are setting this up like this. If they are, why they did not setup like this with Molde or our kids? If they are, and Jose did the same, why he did not setup like that with other teams he managed? On the other hand I am not sure why they are playing like this. Is it confidence issue, like they are afraid to make mistake? Or they are so bad in basics?
Check out what are our players doing when they are without a ball. Usually you will see them standing or walking around position where they are at the moment. One player with the ball do the running around, while the others are jogging or standing. Maybe one or two the closest to the ball will move a little bit, the others won't do anything.
Because of movement, the player with the ball usually have only one possible option to pass the ball, and it is easy to defend against that. As no one else will run or swithc positions, defenders have easy job to stay in the position and wait for the ball.
Beside movement, if you watch it carefully you will see that all of our players in the final third, if in central position are waiting for the ball with positioned with the back to the box. They are oriented in the wrong direction, and what they will do when receive the pass is backward pass as they are afraid that they will lose the ball from behind (and they will usually lose the ball and start counter).
Third, technical ability of our players is absolutely terrible for this level, and I would say today even for lower level of football.
Take a note how many times we had below average first touch in the game.
Take a note how many passes are extremely slow and player needs to wait for the ball standing.
Take a note how many passes are to the legs or behind, instead in front of the player who is running and have open space in front of him (look at the situation in a match against Partizan that is common for our players).
Take a note how many times our full backs or wingers will put a ball in the box without hesitation. Usually, you will see that they will stop, pass it back, or wait for someone in the box to show up.
Take a note how many runs in the box you will see during the game.
Take a note how many times our midfielders run into the box from behind to give the option.
So, those are some of the things that makes us easy to defend against. And it is the same with a third manager in a row. I am not sure that Ole and McKenna are setting this up like this. If they are, why they did not setup like this with Molde or our kids? If they are, and Jose did the same, why he did not setup like that with other teams he managed? On the other hand I am not sure why they are playing like this. Is it confidence issue, like they are afraid to make mistake? Or they are so bad in basics?
Players follow instructions. If not they don't play the next game.
We are terrible because we have a crap manager. It's seems all we do is PE.
We are terrible because we have a crap manager. It's seems all we do is PE.
I don't think it's the formation or having missed out on target signings or not having bought players.
I think it's down to coaching and training, you realize this when you see teams like Liverpool, City and even Chelsea and Spurs to some extent play their football, players taking good first touches, other players moving into space and opening a passing option.
Even lower teams look like they know what they're trying to do with the ball, our players seem to play reactive football, as if most of them are just winging it.
This could either be a result of not having a consistent coaching staff since SAF left or players just not being good enough to learn.
I think it's down to coaching and training, you realize this when you see teams like Liverpool, City and even Chelsea and Spurs to some extent play their football, players taking good first touches, other players moving into space and opening a passing option.
Even lower teams look like they know what they're trying to do with the ball, our players seem to play reactive football, as if most of them are just winging it.
This could either be a result of not having a consistent coaching staff since SAF left or players just not being good enough to learn.
Jordan Henderson and Winaljdum are the midfield of Liverpool. Don't tell me they are better than what we have. It's the coaching that's the difference.
This should be hammered time and time again.
It's the coaching and coaching.
This should be hammered time and time again.
It's the coaching and coaching.
When the Club start rewarding mediocrity with big bumping on wages. When an organization doing this, it the starts of downward spiral.
How can we still have posters talking about style and attacking football?
It should be obvious that our players aren’t good enough to play attacking football. Its got nothing to do with our managers instructing them to play negative, defensive football.
Give me an example of a team that successfully plays free-flowing attacking football without having good players?
It’s a myth. Teams talk about bottom half/mid-table sides who play attacking football but they don’t - they play counter attacking football. Nobody goes to Norwich and Bournemouth and plays 5-5-0 and gives them 75% possession
Playing on the offensive is the hardest thing to do in football. It’s so much easier to sit in and counter-attack than it is to dominate a game and break teams down. The problem is, as I’ve outlined earlier, whilst City and Liverpool have the two Silva’s, Sterling, Aguero, Mahrez, Salah, Firminho and Mane to break teams down, we rely on the likes of Mata, Pereira, Rashford, James, Martial etc....
It’s no more or less complicated than that. The difference between a 0-1 defeat and a 3–0 win is usually one moment of magic that unlocks the opposition and opens up the space.
The positive in all this is we do look hard to break down ourselves. We’re not open like Arsenal and Spurs have been. The problem is we don’t have Kane, Son or Aubamayeng so we don’t score. But if we can find a couple of Kane’s, Son’s, Aubamayeng’s, Salah’s, Mane’s, Aguero’s etc...we’ll soon shoot right up the table
This is the prime reason we rarely score from crosses. The amount of time we go wide and there is no bodies in the box moving toward the 6 yard line. Watch any game, it doesn’t matter if it’s Martial or Rashford, or Lukaku last season no CF makes runs into the box.
Too many players not good enough.
Very thin squad of players.
Only 2 decent midfielders, with one of them out injured and wanting to go.
No Proper striker.
A CEO and owners who don't know anything about football.
Cannot see any future with these owners and CEO. It's time for change all over.
Very thin squad of players.
Only 2 decent midfielders, with one of them out injured and wanting to go.
No Proper striker.
A CEO and owners who don't know anything about football.
Cannot see any future with these owners and CEO. It's time for change all over.
Yeah.
Ole comes in, sorts out the defence with some class signings. Drastically brings down the wage bill. Drastically lowers the playing age of the squad. Gives the youth a chance to shine (McTominay/Tunazebe/Greenwood and Williams look to have taken their chances. Chong/Dalot and Gomes do not for now). Targets two signings next year to turn it around. Maddison/Sancho added to this team would put us drastically up the table. So would others of their ilk.
Agree 100% especially with your last comment
I also find it criminal how we've ignored the right wing for so many years. Plus we need a Leroy Sane type player for the left wing. In general our wing play is shocking and has been for years!
Still, it is the manager’s job to give his/her players that confidence. To create an atmosphere where it is allowed to take chances. So, it is not entirely up to the players.
Excellent points, but the bit I've highlighted really has me pulling my hair out. We're the easiest team in the league to defend against.
I wonder how it would've gone if, under Mourinho, someone said to you "It's not the manager, we'll be better once we get better players"?
Mourinho spent astronomical amounts of money and left us horrendously worse off. His signings that are still in the squad include:
Bailly (injury prone and awful)
Matic (walking calamity)
Pogba (world record signing and wants out after being dropped by Mourinho)
Lindelof (people love him ; I’m not convinced at all)
Dalot (completely unconvincing)
Signings who have left the club include:
Sanchez (our worst ever transfer?)
Mikhitaryan (completely ineffective)
Lukaku (maligned and out of shape)
These aren’t signings made for Peanuts. These are 350 million + signings who massively increased our wage bill. These are players who have effectively hamstrung the next manager when he comes in.
I’m not saying Ole couldn’t have done better ; I’m saying that he started with one hand tied behind his back and then watched as his paper thin squad was ravaged with injury.
A lot of those signings actually looked really good for the first few months though so it's a bit of a stretch to automatically now claim that Ole's were "class".
And let's be honest, AWB was arguably the most obvious right back we could've signed and Maguire is a world record fee for a modest upgrade on the defenders we already had. He also decided to completely ignore our attack which is currently killing us.
Point is that I see a lot of people defend Ole by saying that once he has better players we will be a better side but that's possibly the most fecking obvious applicable statement you could make for ANY manager at ANY team so it's hardly something that should be used to excuse him. He's still massively underperforming with our current squad so even if we do sign two great players as you suggest, and they do improve our overall results, it won't mean he isn't still underperforming.
Add to the list of reasons: cause we can't score from penalties.
I disagree with that. Weaker sides will have less possession but that doesn't mean they're not an attacking team when they do have the ball and when we have the ball, we are pretty rubbish. It is a big problem that our only creative midfielder is Pogba but Liverpool's midfield is definitely more about work rate than creativity and they are entertaining.
We weren't entertaining with better players in the past. Like I said, none of our managers have played particularly attacking football.
Not what I was saying at all but carry on paraphrasing and completely missing the point.
I'd like to see Ole get something resembling his best 11 on the pitch for an extended run of games and see how the team does before completely writing him off.
There are promising signs when he does but it's happened so rarely, it's hard to tell if they can do it consistently.
Mourinho’s transfer business isn’t scrutinised enough. It’s really quite difficult to articulate just how bad a job he did here at United.
You could bin off Ole today and at least say he bought Wan-Bissaka, Maguire and James and got rid of players that shouldn’t have been at the club. Mourinho came second... or something like that.
Given we’ve been playing with a front six of Rashford, James, Pereira, Lingard, McTominay and Fred for the best part of the season, I would argue that seventh position in the league is about par for the course.
That front six is midtable quality.