How are we SO bad?

[Feed Me]

It’s clear this current United side is hardly vintage, especially when compared against some of our great teams.

That said, should a line up with De Gea, Wan B, Maguire, Pogba (when back), Martial and Rashford be so utterly joyless on the pitch?

I don’t want to be overly simplistic about it, but we have the quality to be outperforming most of the league – there’s only really Liverpool and City who are miles ahead of the pack.

From about 08/09 through to 12/13, we were a counter attacking, well drilled defensive team. From the moment, SAF retired, we have gone through several managers and generally been absolutely miserable to watch bar the odd spell.

Is the truth that, as a club, we have no intention to be expansive?

This isn’t just another Feed Me knee jerk – I am genuinely nonplussed as to how such an expensively assembled squad at a club with supposed heritage can consistently serve up rubbish football. We are amongst the worst five teams in the league to watch from an entertainment perspective.

What enables lesser clubs to adopt an attractive style of play in the near term, yet we are always told to be patient and wait for the transition?

Is there too much pressure?

I personally don’t buy the whole DoF thing as being the complete problem. Clearly we could do with a better hierarchy, but has that really stopped us adopting an attractive style? I don’t think so.

United, an attacking team – one of the best myths ever.

Apologies for the directionless thread, but I just don’t understand how we are quite so shit. We literally never play really well.

 

[Eric7C]

You are a plastic entitled glory hunter. You should support another club. Good football? Pfft. Hipster.

Or something.

 

[Feed Me]

You are a plastic entitled glory hunter. You should support another club. Good football? Pfft. Hipster.

Or something.

Heaven forbid we should - win, lose or draw - enjoy a United game!

 

[Wumminator]

It’s clear this current United side is hardly vintage, especially when compared against some of our great teams.

That said, should a line up with De Gea, Wan B, Maguire, Pogba (when back), Martial and Rashford be so utterly joyless on the pitch?

I don’t want to be overly simplistic about it, but we have the quality to be outperforming most of the league – there’s only really Liverpool and City who are miles ahead of the pack.

From about 08/09 through to 12/13, we were a counter attacking, well drilled defensive team. From the moment, SAF retired, we have gone through several managers and generally been absolutely miserable to watch bar the odd spell.

Is the truth that, as a club, we have no intention to be expansive?

This isn’t just another Feed Me knee jerk – I am genuinely nonplussed as to how such an expensively assembled squad at a club with supposed heritage can consistently serve up rubbish football. We are amongst the worst five teams in the league to watch from an entertainment perspective.

What enables lesser clubs to adopt an attractive style of play in the near term, yet we are always told to be patient and wait for the transition?

Is there too much pressure?

I personally don’t buy the whole DoF thing as being the complete problem. Clearly we could do with a better hierarchy, but has that really stopped us adopting an attractive style? I don’t think so.

United, an attacking team – one of the best myths ever.

Apologies for the directionless thread, but I just don’t understand how we are quite so shit. We literally never play really well.

Of the players you’ve listed:
Pogba and Martial have been injured since the third game,
One is a goalkeeper,
Two are excellent defenders

So the only player you listed who is actually playing and fit is Rashford.

Our best attacking players are injured. Our money was spent on the defence.
That is why we are not entertaining.

 

[Red_toad]

Why yet another thread, go read the other crap negative threads, the answers are all in there. Poor coaching, poor transfers deals, key players not in areas, lack of confidence, chopping and changing of players so no patterns of play develop etc. I mean why so many boring negative threads is a better question. We won, yet still the moans....

 

[Nickelodeon]

This is going to be a rather unpopular opinion but according to me, IT'S THE MANAGERS. Ed and the Glazers get a lot of stick (and deservedly so) for their incompetence but the amount of money that has been spent should at least have enabled any one of our managers to achieve something substantial.

The thing that Ed and Glazers should actually be questioned for is the recruitment of the managers but instead we use their incompetence as a weapon to defend our clueless managers. We only need to see what our previous managers have been up to since their departure on from here:

Moyes: Career Over
LVG: Retired
Jose: Struggling to find a job for the first time since he shot to prominence
Ole: The less said about his ability as a manager, the better. And even his most ardent supporters wouldn't be expecting him to be remembered as a great manager.

As a club, we have become increasingly tolerant towards mediocrity initially and now something which would be unacceptable at most mid table clubs. It boils my blood when people like Gary Neville defend the managers just because everyone else is committing mistakes too. As things stand, we do not take the ruthless approach of a Real Madrid or Chelsea who would sack managers who don't win enough nor do we find a quality one with whom we can stick for longer but instead we are perennially stuck in a limbo where the only light at the end of the tunnel seems to be when our current manager would be sacked and the hope that the next one would be better than this one.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We are poorly managed.

 

[Kush]

We are poorly managed.

Bingo.

But, the usual suspects will be out in droves with their pitchforks soon at you OP.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Other than clearly being poorly coached and not working on it enough, we have a team full of players who are technically inept and have had for 5+ years. Look at our rondos and possession games in training. Sunday league level.

 

[passing-wind]

Bad coaching, bad tactical implementation from the manager, players with mixed (rubbish and good) quality / lack of squad balance.

Then off field, the hierarchy useless owners, useless Woodward who deserves a category of his own, no footballing structure.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Players' Mentality <---> Managing/Coaching Abilities

Poor at both, PM depends on type of games.
Coaching/Managing is consistently low quality, cannot improve nor maintain top mentality of players via decisions makings mainly and interaction with players.

But even if manager is bad, if the players switch it on (eg. usually in big games and the games after Mou sacked) then we can hide it. Unfortunately they just don't in games like these.

I just don't buy the idea that our players are crap. Technically they should be able to do better and dominate games vs supposedly fodders... alas, I have no idea where their focus and mindset are.

 

[PieCrust]

Bottom line is that there is no football personnel running this club. Woodward is a joke and that ultimately falls on the ownership. The club needs an ownership change, but that won't happen until the club stops being a financial cash cow.

We also have a terrible scouting network or their inputs are disregarded by higher ups that again, have no football knowledge or vision for the club other than how to further increase profits and milk fans for everything they can.

Of all the mistakes, my favorite is extending Jose then not supporting him in the summer transfer window, then firing him at the end of the season. That pretty much says it all about how the club is being ran.

We're now stuck with a squad of players that quite frankly most have no business playing for Manchester United. We needed at least 6 signings over the summer. But instead we get 3 and then renew players like Mata and Jones while letting our best striker leave to be replaced by Rashford and Martial who have never showed or proven any ability to be main goalscorers and lead the line. It's laughable how the club is being driven into the ground.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Last time we played and won the europa league we didn’t even win our group and got beat by both Fenerbache and Feyenoord in the group stages. Our journey to the final was hardly a joyful time either, barely making our way past Celta Vigo and Anderlecht to make the final, generally whilst playing some dire stuff.

There’s no fun and impressive route through the league cup/Europa League, especially when your squad is as weak as ours. We just have to get by spending as little energy as possible and get your points so you can focus on the league.

We have to get the team back fit and in form because if we can’t get going through the next five games then I have a hard time seeing Ole lasting til January which likely means no players in and hope for a new-manager-bounce which likely won’t have us make top 4 anyway.

 

[Santoryo]

Whether people want to believe it or not, the fault still lies mostly on the manager. People will point out that Ole is our fourth manager since SAF therefore it must be something else but that's not quite true.

If you keep hiring wrong managers nothing will improve or change just by the rule of thumb. As long as we keep recruiting wrong manager we'll keep seeing this sort of chambles.

The players comes into question too but that would make sense if we're talking about competing for top prizes, but as thing stand we're failing to play decent football even against lower teams from far weaker leagues, that's right there is unacceptable and shows how poorly coached we are and that's on the manager.

We just went a whole game against a Serbian team without registering a shot on target(beside the penalty). That's right there is tragic.

Ole is simply a very poor manager clearly way out of his depth.

 

[fps]

I don’t really know what expansive means in this context tbh. With the exception of Mourinho’s first Chelsea sides, who I found utterly joyless to watch, if a team’s rolling most of the other sides over and winning, they’re going to be pretty fun to watch and support. In contrast, I enjoyed watching Fulham in the Championship but their attempts at what might be called “expansive” football weren’t especially entertaining when they were being outfought and outfoxed by PL teams.

It’s the same as it ever was... with the exception, for me, of Mourinho’s style... win matches, win things, fans will be happy, because a lot of fans put a great deal of their self-image and self-esteem into what a bunch of other people are doing on a football pitch near them.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Of the players you’ve listed:
Pogba and Martial have been injured since the third game,
One is a goalkeeper,
Two are excellent defenders

So the only player you listed who is actually playing and fit is Rashford.

Our best attacking players are injured. Our money was spent on the defence.
That is why we are not entertaining.

See above.

 

[MrBest]

It’s clear this current United side is hardly vintage, especially when compared against some of our great teams.

That said, should a line up with De Gea, Wan B, Maguire, Pogba (when back), Martial and Rashford be so utterly joyless on the pitch?

I don’t want to be overly simplistic about it, but we have the quality to be outperforming most of the league – there’s only really Liverpool and City who are miles ahead of the pack.

From about 08/09 through to 12/13, we were a counter attacking, well drilled defensive team. From the moment, SAF retired, we have gone through several managers and generally been absolutely miserable to watch bar the odd spell.

Is the truth that, as a club, we have no intention to be expansive?

This isn’t just another Feed Me knee jerk – I am genuinely nonplussed as to how such an expensively assembled squad at a club with supposed heritage can consistently serve up rubbish football. We are amongst the worst five teams in the league to watch from an entertainment perspective.

What enables lesser clubs to adopt an attractive style of play in the near term, yet we are always told to be patient and wait for the transition?

Is there too much pressure?

I personally don’t buy the whole DoF thing as being the complete problem. Clearly we could do with a better hierarchy, but has that really stopped us adopting an attractive style? I don’t think so.

United, an attacking team – one of the best myths ever.

Apologies for the directionless thread, but I just don’t understand how we are quite so shit. We literally never play really well.

Pogba was being played as a holding midfielder and we have no one to dictate the tempo of the game. We also have zero natural leaders who have experience. They only real leader we have is Tuanzabe. Add this to a outdated counter attacking tactic, it is not surprising we are doimg so bad. Solutuon, Ole to grow some balls and start and stop fearing that we will concede. I would rather win 4 2 and play explosive football than win 1 0 barely registering any attempts. The other solution, we need a creative midfielder, bruno Fernandez was perfect but apparently he spends too long on the ball or some rubbish like that.

 

[Welbeckham]

Our managers are clueless, and our decade in transfer market has probably been one of the worst in football history. Look at Jose’s signings for example and its absolutely atrocious. The fact that we look undercoached doesn’t help, but our players aren’t very good.

We severely lack creativity and technical ability in our squad, which is underlined by the fact that for a second manager straight, you see hardly any signs of tactical ideas you could call a playing style. And our squad lacks both quality and depth, few injuries and it looks like a bottom-table side on a paper.

 

[pocco]

Of the players you’ve listed:
Pogba and Martial have been injured since the third game,
One is a goalkeeper,
Two are excellent defenders

So the only player you listed who is actually playing and fit is Rashford.

Our best attacking players are injured. Our money was spent on the defence.
That is why we are not entertaining.

And the last few years? Or even just last season?

 

[Tarrou]

I think the main reason is centre midfield, just in terms of how we are so bad to watch.

Last season we have a somewhat functioning midfield, albeit with zero depth. Then we lost Herrera, Matic aged 10 years and Pogba got moved deeper for some reason.

And we brought in no one, so when someone gets injured we are doubly fecked.

 

[NewGlory]

Well, we are unfortunately proving the obvious that – a team, especially a professional sports team, is not just a collection of players. What we have is a bunch of players, some more talented than others, but by no means we have anything resembling a team.

Many things are required to make a team, one of them is - balance. This is where we got in trouble by not having football-minded decision making, whether coming from a DoF, or from a manager that can actually run things and is not subordinate to a bunch of clueless accountants, headed by Woodward. No football-minded, smart person would have allowed our midfield to be so devastated and our attack so thin, after the summer window. We cannot score goals because we have no transition, our midfield is weak: our best midfielder Pogba loses ball all the time, we have no defensive midfielder and we never replaced Herrera. As for our attack - it has no depth: we have a young, flank player put in position of being a week-in-week-out striker (Rashford) and a potential true center forward (Martial) who is inconsistent and injury-prone.

A balanced team of less ability will always beat unbalanced collection of higher quality players. Add to this questionable coaching team (it isn't just about Ole!) who clearly cannot coach players enough that they don't look like strangers in games. As well as extremely questionable fitness system that clearly causes our players to be the most injury-prone in the entire league; and you get the dire situation we are in.

 

[The Boy]

It’s clear this current United side is hardly vintage, especially when compared against some of our great teams.

That said, should a line up with De Gea, Wan B, Maguire, Pogba (when back), Martial and Rashford be so utterly joyless on the pitch?

I don’t want to be overly simplistic about it, but we have the quality to be outperforming most of the league – there’s only really Liverpool and City who are miles ahead of the pack.

From about 08/09 through to 12/13, we were a counter attacking, well drilled defensive team. From the moment, SAF retired, we have gone through several managers and generally been absolutely miserable to watch bar the odd spell.

Is the truth that, as a club, we have no intention to be expansive?

This isn’t just another Feed Me knee jerk – I am genuinely nonplussed as to how such an expensively assembled squad at a club with supposed heritage can consistently serve up rubbish football. We are amongst the worst five teams in the league to watch from an entertainment perspective.

What enables lesser clubs to adopt an attractive style of play in the near term, yet we are always told to be patient and wait for the transition?

Is there too much pressure?

I personally don’t buy the whole DoF thing as being the complete problem. Clearly we could do with a better hierarchy, but has that really stopped us adopting an attractive style? I don’t think so.

United, an attacking team – one of the best myths ever.

Apologies for the directionless thread, but I just don’t understand how we are quite so shit. We literally never play really well.

Those first few games, you weren't utterly joyless to watch and then Martial, Pogba and Shaw got injured and you have a thin squad. Rashford was stuck up front with all the pressure on him to perform, but unsurprisingly (remember he is younger than Tammy Abraham) he wilted under the pressure. Look at him come to life for England once the pressure is off as he has Kane and Sterling alongside him.

Mata and Matic are sadly past it and tend to play safe, there was excellent analysis on the Athletic showing how Mata for instance would always play the safe pass back rather than release Rashford forwards, that's confidence something you're team lost quite quickly as the injuries kicked in.

For the second bolded bit this is down to your management I think, I'm a Brighton fan and our team has transformed under Potter and though we've been unlucky (we should have by my reckoning 4 more points) our style of play is attractive and enjoyable and the players are getting it, we're also bring through youth, but our older and more experienced players are not yet past it so we have a more solid team to do this with. It shouldn't take 2 seasons/transfer windows to change your style.

Actually Potters experience isn't so different from Ole's. Learnt the ropes at Ostersund in the Swedish league and did extremely well, then a season in Wales with Swansea, now Brighton, the difference is the level of pressure I think, Potter has the time to fail (a bit) while showing we are progressing. Ole is so worried about failing that I think that translates to the players. Potter has made Brighton a fun club to play at, the opposite is true for you lot I'm afraid.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Last time we played and won the europa league we didn’t even win our group and got beat by both Fenerbache and Feyenoord in the group stages. Our journey to the final was hardly a joyful time either, barely making our way past Celta Vigo and Anderlecht to make the final, generally whilst playing some dire stuff.

There’s no fun and impressive route through the league cup/Europa League, especially when your squad is as weak as ours. We just have to get by spending as little energy as possible and get your points so you can focus on the league.

We have to get the team back fit and in form because if we can’t get going through the next five games then I have a hard time seeing Ole lasting til January which likely means no players in and hope for a new-manager-bounce which likely won’t have us make top 4 anyway.

Yeah it wasn't great but we put 4 past Feyenoord and Fenerbache and 3 against St Etienne at home (at least I think we did). You'd be surprised if we totalled 4 goals in the entire group stage this season!

 

[SoCross]

How many times this season have we had Rashford, Pogba and Martial on the pitch at the same time? Think if we have our best attackers on the pitch, the play will improve significantly but the lack of depth is shocking.

 

[tonnas]

It is an easy answer:
1) inept manager - not good enough
2) inept coaching staff - no tactical nous
3) lack of squad quality
4) lack of squad deoth
5) clueless board and management

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

You're spot on. We should be producing much better football. As it is, I see no plan with with what Ole is doing. We look clueless on the pitch most of the time.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The main reason why we are so bad is that we are lacking creativity in passing & playmaker aspect. We don't have enough players that can make a pass penetrate the opposition midfield & defenders.

Our most sensible player in making passes is Maguire. He tends to make pass that penetrate the opposition midfield which give our attacking midfield chances to get closer to opposition defenders. Another person that I think can make a pass that penetrate the opposition midfield is Tuanzebe which what I saw in Newcastle game. Lindelof is also not so bad in this aspect. McTomminay on the other hand is very bad on doing it. Fred tends to make forward passes but he misplaced too many due to no quality. Matic's passing ability is pretty much the same as McTomminay.

However, our attacking midfield consist a player with lack of ball retention, no ability to hold the ball & can't make a pass that can penetrate opposition defenders. As a result, everytime Maguire made the passes, the ball will be straight back to McTomminay or Fred or the full backs and they will recycle the ball back to our centre back. It's a non stop cycle.

If the pass was made to James & Rashford when they play wide, at least they will likely to try to beat their full backs to make progress in going forward but lack of quality in the final third. However if the pass was made to Pereira, Lingard & Mata, we will see a non stop cycle of the ball going back to our centre back again.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It is an easy answer:
1) inept manager - not good enough
2) inept coaching staff - no tactical nous
3) lack of squad quality
4) lack of squad deoth
5) clueless board and management

3, 4 and 5 are irrelevant, as there's lesser squads out there producing better football.

As for 1 and 2, I guess thats the only thing we'd have to look at, but it was just as bad with Jose and his staff, who you'd think has loads of tactical nous.

 

[Needham]

Utd fan on Talksport this morning blaming "the woke establishment".

 

[Raw]

There's no excusing our awful performances. Even relegation threatened teams offer more in attack than us at times.

Main thing is management. Ole just doesn't fill me with confidence that he can build an attacking set up in this team, no matter how much he says he wants to. Surely by now we should be seeing signs of progress but it's literally the same shit zombie passing football we've seen under Mourinho and LVG. I'm willing to give him more time because right now there's feck all available (unless some very promising manager suddenly becomes available), but also because I want to see him bring in more players. His transfers have been very good so far, so I'd like to see how he'll handle bringing in attacking players. If they're good, it should create a very good squad for a better manager to play with.

The other thing is that we have shit players in attack. I mean if we're playing Lingard and Mata for long periods in a game, players with a total 0 goals and 1 assist this year, it's no wonder we're struggling. There's very little quality in the squad when it comes to linking midfield and attack. Not to mention young inconsistent players like Rashford leading our attack. Hence why I'd like to see a couple more transfer windows to see how we improve on that front under Ole.

People can blame Woody and the Glazers all they want but ultimately they're not in charge of how we play. Still think we need a DoF but I've lost all hope in that happening.

 

[ReddBalls]

Ole is so worried about failing that I think that translates to the players.

See also: Moyes, LvG, Mourinho. People just don't understand the amount of pressure that comes with the job, and what that means. When you have substandard players as well, you're fecked.

 

[Needham]

See also: Moyes, LvG, Mourinho. People just don't understand the amount of pressure that comes with the job, and what that means. When you have substandard players as well, you're fecked.

Don't think it got to LvG in that way.

 

[Wumminator]

And the last few years? Or even just last season?

shit signings. Consistently.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Poor manager, poor coaching staff, poor recruitment.

 

[Godfather]

Me, like most on here, just want to be entertained at some point. Just a bit.
And that can be produced with shit squads as well. I watch Rapid Vienna games and these are more entartaining.

The shit on a stick football is down to management.
Yes, the squad is not good enough to compete. Absolutely. But nobody can convince me that it isn't good enough to produce some attacking football or just some moments of magic. Our players aren't even trying to take on others anymore (apart from hit and runs). It's dull uninspiring football that kills any enjoyment.

 

[Rajma]

Players not at the required level either physically or technically (look at the chances we're still giving to the likes of Rojo, Lingard, Young, Mata, etc. after all these years, it's embarrassing) and managers that are out their depth and unable to coach a thing.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Its completely baffling. Every single thing we try fails. In hindsight the managers were not right but at the time Moyes was seen as a good signing even by Sir Alex, LVG with his passing football was seen as a good step, Mourinho was seen as one of the greatest managers and then we tried Ole who everyone wanted. We spent a sht ton of cash and no one has worked out. Literally no one. One or two have been ok in spurts but no one has turned out like Mane or Sterling for example who just turned into great players and produce week in week out. De Gea was the greatest success but even he has declined. We have young players that we keep waiting to produce where other teams young players are turning out great - see Chelsea. Nothing. Name one thing that went right? Europa and Second was the best we achieved. Im seriously struggling to see how we have advanced in any shape or form and Im not taking about the future. Yes James, Wan B, Maguire seem good signing. Rashford looks like he might be a good player. Pogba might be consistent etc. But Im not talking about jam tomorrow. Im talking about now.

 

[Smores]

This squad and even the team we've had available is more than capabale of playing some basic entertaining football. Plenty of teams in lower leagues that play far better than we do.

I've just bored of the usual hypocrisy from some of the simple minded. Last couple of seasons it was 'results aren't enough we need entertainment' now its "we don't need results or entertainment just time". The debate is as boring as the football.

 

[Suv666]

Poor manager, poor coaching staff, poor recruitment.

This. We could have bounced back but LVG and Mou spend so much cash on dross. Its a shame Ole wasnt given the amount they spend because his signings have been decent.

 

[Massive Spanner]

This. We could have bounced back but LVG and Mou spend so much cash on dross. Its a shame Ole wasnt given the amount they spend because his signings have been decent.

Ole chose to spend £80m on a good but not great defender. Realistically we'd have been better off using that money to strengthen the midfield and attack creatively. It was painfully obvious in the summer that a lack of creativity (apart from Pogba) in the side was our biggest issue.

I'm glad our defense has improved with Maguire but really we could've kept Smalling in there and used that £80m better.