How do we sell Harry Maguire?

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AFC NimbleThumb

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My initial point was about being careful what we wish for. All I am saying is that whatever combination we have fielded over the last 3/4 seasons, we haven't defended particularly well, and seem to give up goals cheaply, particularly on the counter when we lose possession.

If the four International CBs we have (5 if you count Jones) aren't good enough, then I think it's legitimate to start thinking 'is it the individuals....or do we just not defend well as a team?'

Personally, I think we've been a poor side (tactically) for 4/5 seasons, since LvG left. Virgil van Dijk is a monster, and would look half-decent in any team, but apart from him, I reckon if you put any other CB in our side (Dias, T. Silva, Matip, Rudiger included) we wouldn't have looked significantly better. In fact, we'd probably be looking at Maguire at City and going 'why didn't we sign that lad, City's defensive record is excellent'.

Sometimes the easy thing when a team concedes goals is to blame the CBs, but I think our issues have been tactical, lack of pressing, lack of defensive shape, not working hard enough in forward areas, not good enough at turnovers/in transition.

Last thing I'll say on it for now because we're not going to agree but let's see how Maguire and Varane get on until the end of the season. If we get to the end of the season and we're still defending badly (not that I think we have defended badly lately) then we'll have to re-assess it again. But I do question what we can do about it, because we haven't got the luxury of going out and buying yet another CB.
Fair post & I can’t really disagree with it. The team/tactics aren’t particularly favourable for any part of the team however I do believe a number of Maguire’s mistakes aren’t simply him covering gaps but bad defending on a singular level. That said I’m always telling my Citeh supporting mate that if you swapped Foden & [Our previous wonder kid whose name shall not be written] that the real difference is their environment although it turns out our wunderkind had other issues holding him back but I agree most players, not just CBs would look poor in our current set up.

I don’t see Maguire coming good but as with other squad members I think the set up doesn’t really help many look good.
 

SadlerMUFC

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You don't know the last man/clear goal scoring opp rule but then say someone else doesn't understand the laws of the game...I applaud your confidence as misplaced as it clearly is. It was even brought up by journos after the game in post match interviews.
Corner was clumsy, I sympathise with Maguire and it was a ridiculous decision i my view but he caused the goal to be disallowed, he then got done for their goal and escaped a red card when he pulled back Rodriguez.
Ugh....first off, there is no such law as "last man". The law you are think of is DOGSO. And in order for DOGSO to be given the foul has to Deny an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity. A ball going a mile over a forwards head that the keeper is going to get to is not an obvious goal scoring opportunity...
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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I directly tell you what parts of your post I disagree with. It’s not simply Ralfs system. It’s not a downturn in form. He is one of the worst signings. His behaviour with police in Greece is shameful of a United captain.

Not sure why you’d choose a part of your post I said I agree with over the clearly mentioned parts I said I do not. Moving on.

You’ve missed the point, England could play with a back 6 the question is what does him playing for a differe team against a different level of opposition tell us about a man that struggles against Burnley for his club side? Since when did making an international Team of the Tournament make up for terrible club form? You’re taking a 4 week tournament for another team & extrapolating it over the nonsense we witness weekly. :rolleyes: indeed.


Did we play Spurs in the first 3 games? Did Instanbul not happen? Your unwavering support for the man is misplaced. . .

2019-2022


. . . You might want to take your red tinted specs off & grab a bowl of popcorn.
That's me told.
 

United in sin

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A complete amateur like myself with no football transfer experience or scouting just used my eyes and knew he wasn't worth £80M. I was vehemently against us signing him because I didn't think he had the mentality, never mind he wasn't that great of a player. How the feck did professionals miss his non-qualities and pay all this money?
I am fecked off with him. Seeing him as captain is depressing. I would sell him to anyone and suck up the financial loss. Just get rid of him.
Are we the same person? This is exactly how I felt when I heard about our initial interest when Mourinho was in charge. I hoped city would outbid us but they stopped at 60M if I recall correctly. United like the inept club it is paid 20M over that. Stuck with him
 

wise_old_man

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A complete amateur like myself with no football transfer experience or scouting just used my eyes and knew he wasn't worth £80M. I was vehemently against us signing him because I didn't think he had the mentality, never mind he wasn't that great of a player. How the feck did professionals miss his non-qualities and pay all this money?
I am fecked off with him. Seeing him as captain is depressing. I would sell him to anyone and suck up the financial loss. Just get rid of him.
He is English. That was a very big plus point for Ole and our board.
 

OhGee

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Interesting what Frank Le Beouf said when asked about what he would do with Maguire…to paraphrase: ”I’ll play him in front of me and not allow him to sweep since he is not a sweeper and I’ll let him do the non-technical part of the defending and then mop up his mistakes” This for an £80 million defender…
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Interesting what Frank Le Beouf said when asked about what he would do with Maguire…to paraphrase: ”I’ll play him in front of me and not allow him to sweep since he is not a sweeper and I’ll let him do the non-technical part of the defending and then mop up his mistakes” This for an £80 million defender…
That’s damning if he said that.

What I find telling with Maguire is that commentators [generally the foreign ex-pros] see him as low hanging fruit. They go really hard on him because it’s a guarantee he’ll drop another clanger to make their insights seems like a great take.
 

MadDogg

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People saying he's in bad form, what a joke.

He's playing at the best of his ability right now and he's a fecking shit defender.
He's in the worst form of his career right now. He's obviously nowhere near the 'best of his ability' and it's going overboard to say it is. You only have to look at the second half of last season where he was probably the second best central defender in the league.

At his best he actually is a top defender. The issue is that he's shown that form for less than one fifth of his time at Utd so far. He's been absolutely atrocious for a bit over one fifth (most of this season and the first month or so of last season), and for the rest of the time (most of his first 18 months) he's been inconsistent as hell. It's gone on too long now, but up until this season it was quite understandable to hope that he would develop the consistency to show that top form more often, especially as he finally seemed to be doing that last season.
 

devilish

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Maguire and AWB were signed on the basis that they have United DNA and they know what playing for United is all about.
 

devilish

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Ah, the ‘Young & British’ era. Suppose at least we made a profit on Dan James.
The British core, honest, hardworking and EPL proven era.

The reality is that these players while great for small sides are unsuited for a top club who play with a high line.
 

wise_old_man

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Ah, the ‘Young & British’ era. Suppose at least we made a profit on Dan James.
Remember how Newcastle tried to fleece us for Longstaff? I hope that era should be put to bed forever with Ole's departure. We must choose our players on merit, not nationality.
 

devilish

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Remember how Newcastle tried to fleece us for Longstaff? I hope that era should be put to bed forever with Ole's departure. We must choose our players on merit, not nationality.
Longstaff for 40m would have been the icing on the cake for the Jon Murtough-Ole administration especially since I very much doubt that the club would have sanctioned Bruno's deal in January after that.
 

Random Task

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Would there still be the hate for Maguire if he wasn't English, a little rough looking, and the Greece incident didn't happen?
 

Rolaholic

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Would there still be the hate for Maguire if he wasn't English, a little rough looking, and the Greece incident didn't happen?
The likes of Smalling, Phil Jones, Jonny Evans were never 'hated' so I doubt that plays any part of it.

None of them were the most expensive defender of all time mind you though...
 

Fortitude

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Would there still be the hate for Maguire if he wasn't English, a little rough looking, and the Greece incident didn't happen?
I don't hate Maguire, and I made the thread.

I've made numerous lengthy posts about him since he got here in his own thread. My assessment is he simply isn't good enough and holds us back. It's no deeper than that.
 

spiriticon

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I don't hate Maguire, but I'll never like him either. He is just too shit for a club like Manchester United.

You make him your captain and leading defender only if you have no ambition to win multiple trophies.
 

Random Task

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And wasn’t shit?
He isn't "shit" though. That's just a pointless, lazy assessment.

The likes of Smalling, Phil Jones, Jonny Evans were never 'hated' so I doubt that plays any part of it.

None of them were the most expensive defender of all time mind you though...
Evans is Irish but I got your point.

Perhaps I'm just being paranoid, but the shocking behaviour from certain fans on this forum (I won't name names) towards England in the Euros has made me question their ability to form an objective opinion where players from that nation are concerned. Many of whom have posted in this thread. I know I'm not the only Englishman on this forum who is aware of this.

I can't help but feel obliged to comment if I believe prejudice or racism has taken precedent in a conversation, rightly or wrongly. Just my nature I guess.
 

Mainoldo

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How do you sell him.

Just keep booing him. The football world will get the message.
 

Rozay

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He isn't "shit" though. That's just a pointless, lazy assessment.
That’s your observation. I think he’s shit. And if he isn’t, then he is certainly impersonating a shit footballer.
 

wise_old_man

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Perhaps I'm just being paranoid, but the shocking behaviour from certain fans on this forum (I won't name names) towards England in the Euros has made me question their ability to form an objective opinion where players from that nation are concerned. Many of whom have posted in this thread. I know I'm not the only Englishman on this forum who is aware of this.

I can't help but feel obliged to comment if I believe prejudice or racism has taken precedent in a conversation, rightly or wrongly. Just my nature I guess.
I think the overrating from our press regarding English players, together with the "English tax" on transfer market simply piss a lot of people off.
 

Moriarty

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Are we the same person? This is exactly how I felt when I heard about our initial interest when Mourinho was in charge. I hoped city would outbid us but they stopped at 60M if I recall correctly. United like the inept club it is paid 20M over that. Stuck with him
I wonder what people would be saying about him if Pep had coached him for the last season or two?
 

spiriticon

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I wonder what people would be saying about him if Pep had coached him for the last season or two?
He's is not a Pep defender. No chance. Pep would have given him the Joe Hart style sideline within a handful of games.
 

red4ever 79

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I'm gonna say it as it is without any bias or prejudice. This guy is an average premier league CB. No better, no worse than lets say a Tyrone Mings or Michael Keane at Everton. In fact I would even go so far to say Chris Smalling was a better CB than this fella.

Unfortunately his ability is a reflection of where we are as a football club. An average team that puts in average performances that will finish in an average position.
 

spiriticon

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City were in for him, I believe, before we chucked the kitchen sink at Leicester. Pep must have seen something in him.
Probably they were 5 or 6 years ago when the word 'potential' could still be used for Maguire, but Pep is ruthless enough to bin people fairly quickly once he figures out their ceiling.
 

Pintu

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I wonder what people would be saying about him if Pep had coached him for the last season or two?
He would have sidelined him relatively quickly, like he did others (Bravo, Danilo, Angelino) since joining them.
 

noodlehair

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:lol:

Also I don't understand how this isn't a penalty. He gets nowhere near the ball then bundles the striker over and treads on them
 
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