How do you convince players who are enjoying a very comfortable living, to care about winning trophies again?

[fastwalker]

The facts do not lie. A little less than a quarter of the season still to go and United are sitting in 5th with 50 points. As a points tally, it is the 3rd lowest after 29 games since United's 2012/13 title winning season and a full 21 points behind the tally achieved at the same point, during that season. The fact is that investment, even vast investment has not brought progress that we had hoped. At best, it seems to have resulted in a slow slide into mediocrity.

I totally get that managers change things. However, my concern is that the culture at United, built on a diet of major trophy winning and fed by a hunger for more is slowly becoming a thing of the past. In the place of pride over the number of trophies won, seems to be contract size and social media following. I am not suggesting that United players, do not want to win trophies and be successful. Rather it seems that players want to be successful on their own terms. They want to be guaranteed first team football, whether or not they deserve it. Their fragile egos dictate that they do not want to be criticised publicly, even when they might deserve to be. When you have Ralf Rangnick suggesting that our players should look to Anthony Elanga (an academy graduate) as their role model, then you get a sense of the scale of the problem at United.

Over the past four years, the bar has well and truly been raised by City and Liverpool. Success and trophy-winning now requires more in terms of fitness, commitment, application and attitude.

Given the massive wages that our players are on, how do we extract Ferguson-era levels of passion for winning trophies and achieving success from our players?

 

[DickDastardly]

Raise the bar on everything.

Be ruthless.

We can't have an underperforming player captaining the team game after game and then expecting others to "care"?!
Care about what?

I'd fecking care.....care about getting my sorry ass out of the work environment that encourages mediocrity and rewards it time and time again.

It's fecking piss easy.
Don't reward poor performances. That's it.

 

[Teja]

Normally I'm pretty dismissive about posts questioning players' mentalities because it takes an insane level of determination and ruthlessness to even make it as a premier league level footballer.

However, I do think your points about players defining success in their own terms (getting a big contract or building a brand or starting every game) is spot on. It's almost cliched but the miracle fix is to win something no matter how minor it is to get the players to truly believe that they're some of the best players in the world and their legacy isn't just a fat contract and investments in real estate or luxury brands or whatever.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

Stop being Manchester United Marketing Agency and become Manchester United Football Club.

 

[UnitedFire]

The facts do not lie. A little less than a quarter of the season still to go and United are sitting in 5th with 50 points. As a points tally, it is the 3rd lowest after 29 games since United's 2012/13 title winning season

You mean there is a chance.....

Completely ignores the fact we had 21 more points that season.

I mean if we win all 9 games we get to 77 points. Man City on 70 and Liverpool 69 lose most of their games.... And Chelsea... Arsenal... And Spurs.

It's ON.

 

[Pughnichi]

Stop the insane contracts. Play hard ball.

Rashford for example, likely due to start negotiations on a renewal. We should low ball him and offer what he’s currently worth/offering in return. If doesn’t like it, then so be it, move on and let him get what he thinks he’s worth elsewhere

there appears to be this god given sense of self entitlement that at every renewal there’s a pay increment.

 

[17Larsson]

Stick a Roy Keane in the middle of them and whether they want to win or not they'll have no choice

 

[kthanksbye]

The players obviously want to win, I'm going to assume that's what their core value is, that's what everyone's core value is when they play football. It's all well and good to be motivated when things are going fine and you're competing, but it gets complicated when the chips are down, how much character do the players have? what is their personality like? and when you're paid as much as they are, and are living a comfortable life, it's hard to beat yourself over this, it's hard to continue to persevere.
It's a catch 22 now, I think the players need to taste some sort of success to start caring about winning again, but unless they don't start caring again, it's going to be hard to win anything.
Fresh and hungry players is the answer, fresh and hungry manager is the answer. It all comes down to the right recruitment. I've mentioned this in this forum before, no wonder SAF prioritized players' personalities so much, no wonder he wanted to meet the parents before signing a youngster, there are a lot of skillful players in the world, it's the ones who can keep themselves motivated when the chips are down are the kind of players you want in your team.
Pogba is easily one of the best CMs in the world in terms of skill, but how often and how consistently is he able to showcase those skills?
We've been recruiting the wrong players since a long time now, too much focus is on stats. numbers, goals, assists, passing accuracy and all that.
Our scouts have been extremely incompetent since a very long time now, and unless something is done about that, we'll just keep recruiting more plyers who will not be able to do justice to their own skills.

 

[Jaae]

It comes from the very top. It's going to be very difficult for any manager to instill a winning mentality at this club when the players know that the people who pay their wages are happy with 4th.

Back in the day Ferguson sold some high profile players to let the squad know lowered standards would not be tolerated. These days we'll likely renew Rashford on a higher salary due to his marketability.

What chance has any manager got?

 

[Ali Dia]

Only pay exceptional players exceptional money. Rashford and Martial should only be coming onto their current kind of money on their next deal. 280 for Pogba, 400 for DDG, 3-350 for Varane and Sancho 400 for Sanchez? These are all players that haven’t really done anything for us. They are going to make sure we honour these stupid contracts whether they play well or not, motivated or not or if they are injured all the time. It’s up to us to pull it back. I’m all for paying world class wages but at least let it be to players who have become world class and spending their peaks here. DDG I can kind of understand even though the game was clearly moving on but 400k a week for a goalkeeper in a team that’s struggling to make top 4? Cmon lads. There’s a whole world of players out there.

After that heavily incentivise the contracts

 

[Gordon Godot]

The players obviously want to win, I'm going to assume that's what their core value is, that's what everyone's core value is when they play football. It's all well and good to be motivated when things are going fine and you're competing, but it gets complicated when the chips are down, how much character do the players have? what is their personality like? and when you're paid as much as they are, and are living a comfortable life, it's hard to beat yourself over this, it's hard to continue to persevere.
It's a catch 22 now, I think the players need to taste some sort of success to start caring about winning again, but unless they don't start caring again, it's going to be hard to win anything.
Fresh and hungry players is the answer, fresh and hungry manager is the answer. It all comes down to the right recruitment. I've mentioned this in this forum before, no wonder SAF prioritized players' personalities so much, no wonder he wanted to meet the parents before signing a youngster, there are a lot of skillful players in the world, it's the ones who can keep themselves motivated when the chips are down are the kind of players you want in your team.
Pogba is easily one of the best CMs in the world in terms of skill, but how often and how consistently is he able to showcase those skills?
We've been recruiting the wrong players since a long time now, too much focus is on stats. numbers, goals, assists, passing accuracy and all that.
Our scouts have been extremely incompetent since a very long time now, and unless something is done about that, we'll just keep recruiting more plyers who will not be able to do justice to their own skills.

Guys, debate all day if you like. This comes from the top. The owners dont care if we win trophies, they sign off stupid contracts on crazy money for often pretty average players, with no coherent plan or football philosophy. We then dont move on players that are not performing, seemingly often to 'protect their value'. You put most of our squad in a different environment and you will see the hunger. They are just people like the rest of us. Lets stop pretending a new 'strong' manager will sort this out. He wont. The club needs a complete cultural reset. I remain dubious under the current owners that will ever happen.

 

[redshaw]

Scottish hair drier

 

[Jericholyte2]

Revolutionise the contracts you offer.

Relatively low basic weekly wage with very high performance bonuses.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Fire them.

 

[united for life]

Stick a Roy Keane in the middle of them and whether they want to win or not they'll have no choice

unfortunately players are not like this anymore. I rarely see passion, no winning mentality, no playing for pride or the shirt. players these days are either arrogant or indifferent. A united vs arsenal match 20 years ago, for instance, would’ve been so intense to watch. these days players hug

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think they would like to win trophies, but it does not hurt enough when they don't. I still think of when we lost in the past. It usually meant the next season we came out all guns blazing because it tore the players to pieces not winning a league title or a cup. They don't have enough drive. You can have ambition but without drive is means nothing.

 

[Foxbatt]

Get the fans to show their disapproval.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Players at Chelsea, Liverpool and City are all living comfortable lives. The players in isolation aren’t the issue, I’ve no doubt if you implanted one of our squad into a more cohesive one they would amalgamate. The problem is we’ve put together a bunch of players you’d want on the fringe of a squad in terms of leadership, couple that with telling them failures weee successes for years & this is what we get.

Also, this squad isn’t not winning trophies simply because they don’t want to, fundamentally they’re not good enough to.

 

[JPRouve]

The premise of that point implies that our group of players is significantly better than 5th in the league when it clearly isn't. Our players aren't underachieving.

 

[Cassidy]

You get a group of players capable of winning trophies

 

[Leftback99]

Stop the ridiculous contracts and buy players with some kind of character. I'd bet our training matches are the least competitive in the PL. We have players who look like they barely speak never mind dig each other out.

Most of them just don't have the ability to win trophies never mind the mentality.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Stick a Roy Keane in the middle of them and whether they want to win or not they'll have no choice

That doesn't work anymore. Yell at a player and they are crying for their "safe space". Discipline a player and they are crying to their agent/mommy

 

[Dan_F]

I really don’t think big wages is the issue with what is going on with the club. We can do much better with this to benefit the club financially, but any basic theory on motivation will explain that money isn’t generally a high motivation factor long term. Players wont start to play better because they want to earn more money, even your average Premier League footballer is way past that.

 

[Abraxas]

I think one of the key issues is you use the word "again" as if many of these players have experienced success. There are only a notable few that have a trophy haul to speak of.

The reality is the majority of our squad have not been part of winning sides, or if they have they have not done it in one of the better leagues. They don't actually know what winning looks like, and possibly they have also checked out on the prospect of doing so mentally as we are so off the pace of our rivals.

We can talk about motivating them and effort until we're blue in the face but at what point do we simply recognise that they're not of the quality? Physically, mentally, technically - it's not just one thing where we can hone in on it and they'll be winning players. They're possibly just not of that standard.

But of course we have to try and get more from them, so that when we do restructure the side with a new manager that there is the possibility for progress. That's the next step as some of these players will still be around for a while.

 

[#07]

The culture at the club is rotten. There's no consequence for the players. They can be garbage. Their agents and entourages can drag the club. They can continually underperform. They'll get new contracts 'to protect value' while the coaches who hire them get sacked.

Imagine FSG had told Klopp that he couldn't sell Sakho, Benteke, Mingolet etc cos they didn't want to make losses on those players? Forget being able to make them a pressing team. Imagine what it says to your dressing room when you continually undermine your coach. Cos that's what United do. Then the Board blame coaches for not being able to get their message across, as if any our coaches can have authority the way the club treats them.

 

[Trequarista10]

Stick a Roy Keane in the middle of them and whether they want to win or not they'll have no choice

Roy Keane has been scoffed at by the hipsters and football philosophers for his standard analysis of desire and commitment, but this is what it comes down to imo. Its the difference between a good team and a winning team. You need a culture of desire, determination, fight, commitment. You need a manager and a few influential players who set those standards. Get rid of those who can't hack the intensity.

Its harder to implement that culture in the modern game due a change in sensitivities, but its not impossible. It just needs a different approach to man management. It's not about players having too much money. Beckham, Giggs, Keane had money. They still grafted. It'd about personality. Get the right personalities in, get the wrong personalities out.

 

[Lemon Moon]

I think it comes down to management. Look at the Arsenal team since Arteta made an example out of chopping Auba. The rest of the squad shat their pants and sat up straight.
No messing / No nonsense Management.

 

[ufb]

I don't think you can convince people to be more motivated. I can see two ways of doing it -
a) Hire leaders - People respond well to leaders. Those who can do their job at a high level, can help others improve and demand the best from others
b) Sounds ruthless, but hire intrinsically motivated people and phase them out if they aren't as effective as before.

SAF did both to a very high level. In fact, this isn't so different from the hiring processes in highly lucrative fields like tech. It isn't just the money that matters - people respond well to reasonable goals if given the right support system.

For example - I spent a lengthy chunk of time in a toxic organization that paid industry leading wages. It was hard to get much done because the org was a revolving door of smart people who got disillusioned very quickly due to frequent changes in vision and leadership. At that point, everybody started looking out for their bottom line and things kept going south.

United have a management challenge, there is no visionary leadership and everything else trickles down.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Get a good leader. I see no good leaders in our team bar Mctominay who might not be a first 11 player for us long term, unless we get a good coach as I could see him become our Henderson.

 

[Smores]

Winning trophies isn't the motivational point because we're not there and players know that from looking around at each other.

We just need to get the players playing for each other and the fans and at least for next season focus just on instilling the new style. No expectation just game by game.

Jose to Ole did a number on some of these. The countless "we're back" statements which we all knew were symptomatic at the time. You're not back you're fecking no where near so stop role playing as legends gone and just focus on the next game.

Only when we win our next title will that fuel the desire for more. You can't build it on times gone or expectations.

 

[Isotope]

Don't wait to make decision until 1 year left on their contract. Our bloated wages or player losing motivation on his last year are caused by this policy.

But then it's easier to say when even most of our fans approving this.

 

[croadyman]

Stop being Manchester United Marketing Agency and become Manchester United Football Club.

Never gonna happen under this board

 

[Edy2]

You don't, you get rid of them and buy players who want to be there.

 

[Someone]

I believe it's more about the overall standards at the club. Whether it's football or something not related to sport at all, when it comes to building a successful team you can't allow mediocrity to creep in, because then everyone joins and thinks they're doing better than they actually are. So you get players like Pogba that cost us a fortune giving us 6 or 7 brilliant games each season and that's about that, and he's allowed to run down his contract. You get players like Rashford, Shaw, Martial, Maguire who can't seem to be able to put 2 good seasons in a row, yet they're still here, and those are the stars of the team. Give it time and watch Sancho do exactly the same.

Fergie wouldn't have allowed that, regardless to your talent your had to step up. We've had a lot of false dawns during the Fergie era but those who failed to make it were shown the door, because as Fergie would say, The United train waits for no one.

Right now everybody is allowed to fail for years, from players to managers, until we've reached a point where all the traces of high standards and winning mentality are nowhere to be found at the club. It's not just about money, because if you look around you'll see players on big wages doing great at other top clubs, it's about the culture of failure at united.

 

[croadyman]

Revolutionise the contracts you offer.

Relatively low basic weekly wage with very high performance bonuses.

Yeah this definitely needs to happen

 

[FlapR]

Revolutionise the contracts you offer.

Relatively low basic weekly wage with very high performance bonuses.

Yeah this definitely needs to happen

I'd just join "X" club instead and get a steady wage and still be a multi millionaire.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

I honestly don't get peoples way of thinking.

How about we have a new rule at the club, if a players attitudes shite, they get sold simple. Irrespective of how many arse lickers they have amongst the fans

 

[Bondi77]

The facts do not lie. A little less than a quarter of the season still to go and United are sitting in 5th with 50 points. As a points tally, it is the 3rd lowest after 29 games since United's 2012/13 title winning season and a full 21 points behind the tally achieved at the same point, during that season. The fact is that investment, even vast investment has not brought progress that we had hoped. At best, it seems to have resulted in a slow slide into mediocrity.

I totally get that managers change things. However, my concern is that the culture at United, built on a diet of major trophy winning and fed by a hunger for more is slowly becoming a thing of the past. In the place of pride over the number of trophies won, seems to be contract size and social media following. I am not suggesting that United players, do not want to win trophies and be successful. Rather it seems that players want to be successful on their own terms. They want to be guaranteed first team football, whether or not they deserve it. Their fragile egos dictate that they do not want to be criticised publicly, even when they might deserve to be. When you have Ralf Rangnick suggesting that our players should look to Anthony Elanga (an academy graduate) as their role model, then you get a sense of the scale of the problem at United.

Over the past four years, the bar has well and truly been raised by City and Liverpool. Success and trophy-winning now requires more in terms of fitness, commitment, application and attitude.

Given the massive wages that our players are on, how do we extract Ferguson-era levels of passion for winning trophies and achieving success from our players?

Tell them their contract is being terminated

 

[Sky1981]

How bout proper stick and carrot.

We refuse to even jeer to the likes of rashford who's clearly taking us for granted. Yet we expect them the world.

Make the fear us if they're not giving 110% would be a good start.

We had SAF and Keane do the dirty work for us those years.

 

[Red_toad]

Raise the bar on everything.

Be ruthless.

We can't have an underperforming player captaining the team game after game and then expecting others to "care"?!
Care about what?

I'd fecking care.....care about getting my sorry ass out of the work environment that encourages mediocrity and rewards it time and time again.

It's fecking piss easy.
Don't reward poor performances. That's it.

So be ruthless how exactly? These guys are on contracts. All good and well to think anyone posting on here would know how to motivate multimillionaires, but they don’t.
Let’s not forget lots of these players performed a lot better last season under Maguire and previously under a shite Rooney and the Great Ashley Young And turn back Tony. Fans base a lot more on who is captain than the players do.
Only tool managers have is to reduce playing time. Lots of our players are going to have to take a significant hit on wages if they move on. A top quality management team gets better performances out of these players.