Of course it has been true in the last few seasons.How many performances have you seen where the team completely melts down under ETH, that's not due to being apathetic, it's due to being overwhelmed emotionally. You seem to only consider one side of being mentally engaged which is the positive one, the alternative is to meltdown and lose composure which has been the most likely scenario in the last few years with a team that lose all structure and composure when things don't go as planned.I don't think that is true anymore in the last few seasons. Sure there are periods of good form where we eke out some wins in a row, but largely what we see on the pitch is fairly apathetic (apart from Bruno) and this has been consistent since Ole's final season in my opinion.
We used to get these famed 'responses from the players' in the next match after every defeat, even in the Moyes/LVG/Jose era. These days, the match after a defeat is just the same shit as before. Not even the boos at OT makes a difference.
Even public speakers get the same thing happen, as someone who does a lot of public speaking I can attest.I do have that problem. Which is why I am not a public speaker earning 100k per appearance.
I only consider how much the players 'care' because this thread headline asks about what I think about it. What do I think they feel after a defeat? 'I don't think they care enough' is my answer.Of course it has been true in the last few seasons.How many performances have you seen where the team completely melts down under ETH, that's not due to being apathetic, it's due to being overwhelmed emotionally. You seem to only consider one side of being mentally engaged which is the positive one, the alternative is to meltdown and lose composure which has been the most likely scenario in the last few years with a team that lose all structure and composure when things don't go as planned.
Yes, but I bet you do the basics well enough not to be ridiculed about it by your peers or audience constantly.Even public speakers get the same thing happen, as someone who does a lot of public speaking I can attest.
I probably misunderstood the topic of the conversation we were having.I only consider how much the players 'care' because this thread headline asks about what I think about it. What do I think they feel after a defeat? 'I don't think they care enough' is my answer.
The rest of the possible explanations for our bad results are intensely debated elsewhere on this forum, mostly in the Ten Hag thread (where you will also find me). I don't put all the blame on the players not caring, I just discuss about it in here.
No you didn't. You saidI'm not. I said that I don't and can't know, I also said why. I went with the simplest answer which is the opposite of overcomplicating it.
If you'd said "I'd have to know them personally." That would be fine. But you're telling others they can't because they don't know them personally.In order to answer, you would have to know them personally.
No you didn't. You said
If you'd said "I'd have to know them personally." That would be fine. But you're telling others they can't because they don't know them personally.
You understood perfectly that sentence and you know perfectly that it's not an overcomplication.They're just asking what you think. You've overcomplicated it.
No one is, or should be, saying anyone's word here is gospel. You're right in that we'll never know. It's just people trying to have a discussion which, neither I or you, have actually contributed to.
My thoughts exactly, we have players who have seen off 4 managers in Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick and ETH will be their 5th.Hoping they have done enough to get this one sacked. On to the next one. And the buddy Sancho will be back. Merry times.
If you were getting paid a kings ransom to do a job that for many is their dream job, with a chance of huge personal achievement and glory, the only thing that would motivate you to be at your best is what consequences you might face if you underperform?Legitimately if I was getting 150-300k a week knowing I could half ass and no consequences I absolutely would. So I sort of don't blame them. Just makes the club a shambles.
Yeah right. Let's not let the words we say let anybody make any assumptions. I'll never know what you meant because I don't personally know you.You understood perfectly that sentence and you know perfectly that it's not an overcomplication.
So it's maybe best to move on.
I think this is where a lot of them are. They’ve all managed to lower expectations for each other.Dude if im paid millions to just show up and have no consequences at all for my poor performances, i wouldn't care. The players probably planning for christmas party and gatherings ahead, to answer your question.
I seemingly offended you, so I offer you my apologies.Yeah right. Let's not let the words we say let anybody make any assumptions. I'll never know what you meant because I don't personally know you.
Er why does that matter?Yes, but I bet you do the basics well enough not to be ridiculed about it by your peers or audience constantly.
It matters because even if a player is drained completely of their confidence, I still expect them to be able to run and challenge for a 50/50 ball. Just like you are still able to speak with no confidence.Er why does that matter?
Do I lose my words when not confident? Yes. Can I actually speak? Yes.
What's the reason for me to lose my chain of thought? Confidence.
Same happens in every walk of life, it's real fecking life whether you want to accept it or not, it's human nature and it'll happen to you and everyone at some point.
You just don't understand, it's not about 'doing the basics', a player low on confidence is less likely to engage with a player quickly, they are more likely to be passive.It matters because even if a player is drained completely of their confidence, I still expect them to be able to run and challenge for a 50/50 ball. Just like you are still able to speak with no confidence.
Again, we're not talking about confidence to do mad skillz or eye of the needle passes, we're talking about caring enough to do the basics. Literally just running to the ball.
If you think that low confidence excuses a player from caring about winning, we can just agree to disagree.
Yeah but we see the same issues even when we are winning and supposedly 'in form'. Some of them naturally prefer to back out of a 50/50 and it gets worse when we're losing.You just don't understand, it's not about 'doing the basics', a player low on confidence is less likely to engage with a player quickly, they are more likely to be passive.
It's isn't about not caring or not being bothered.
We see it ALL the time with teams struggling, look at Newcastle, their pressing has gone, some blame it on lethargy however it's more than likely also due to the fact they are not riding the crest of a wave currently and so are deflated and unconfident in what they are doing.
This leads to them second guessing themselves and often standing an extra half yard off a player rather then closing them down.
It happens to ALL teams at some point.
If you can't understand that then you are a lost cause in this conversation.
