How good was Cesc Fabregas?

[Skills]

For a few years (up until he joined Barcelona) I think most people thought he was one of the best midfielders outside of Barcelona. Many even thought, he'd improve them when he joined and would be a mainstay in the team. But I think his tenure there kinda showed, he wasn't quite the same gravy as Xavi or Iniesta (which is no shame - they are two of the best ever).

When they were together in the Premier League, I thought he looked a level above Modric as well. But Modric has moved onto Madrid and established himself as arguably the best midfielder around. Now Fabregas is still only 29 years old (should be his prime essentially) and is now on Chelsea's bench. So was he just overrated at Arsenal? Or Wenger managed to play to his strengths and hid his flaws?

 

[Giant Midget]

Had a tactically naive manager in Wenger who indulged his flaws more than Guardiola and Conte will allow. The Arsenal team was built around him. He also played in the PL at a time where it wasn't tactically as sophisticated and nuanced as it is now - most teams still played a 4-4-2, talent (especially midfielders) weren't distributed as evenly.

Since then, he's only further declined physically and shown he can't perform in systems that don't play to his strengths. So I'd say he was a very good player, but never world class and not comparable to the likes of Scholes or even Modric.

Modric wasn't someone who was recognized as world class initially because he was shunted out to the left wing due to "lacking physicality." Give him the keys to the engine room and you'll see the best midfielder in the world, something that can't be said for Fabregas at all.

 

[Ødegaard]

I believe that any young player who does fantastic will to some degree be overrated.
It's natural, because you expect them to kick on and get even better once they hit what people perceive as the prime years for footballers, in the same way, people will believe that most footballers who are past the typical prime cannot possibly get better and will definitely go down fast.

Fabregas for me, was one of the players who went against the natural order of things, as he was genuinely great when he was young (or at least I thought so, but i was just a kid back then so my understanding of the game was lower than it is now) and seems to have lost a bit of that cockiness that made him stand out, and the pride that made him work harder as a central midfielder. He found some of it back again in his first season in Chelsea but he couldn't seem to keep it up after the mid-season mark as he usually couldn't when he was at Barcelona.

It's hard for me to remember if his brilliance went downhill as massively in his Arsenal years, but going of my memory it didn't, it was the team collectively and not the key-individuals that lost their title races all the time.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have Zlatan who people (me included) believe have improved parts of his game as he has grown older. Before playing in the Premier League people were sure he wouldn't make it, as he never had a history of being great against English teams, but he as a player has matured from the raw force of nature he was when he was younger into the fine wine he jokes about these days, and he has proven that just because you are old and not accustomed to the Premier League, you can come in and take it by storm, showing that old can still be gold.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Based on his form for Arsenal aged 21/22 I don't think it was a stretch to imagine he'd go on to be the world's best midfielder. I think he made the wrong move going back to Barcelona, they already had an incredible midfield trio of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets that he was never going to crack, and ended up being used almost as a striker where he was basically limited to only scoring goals.

I still maintain he's one of the best assist makers I've ever seen though, his through balls are out of this world and arguably only beaten by Messi.

 

[Robertd0803]

He was brilliant at Arsenal and there was a bite to his game as well that a lot of that team didn't have. It was inevitable that he would move to Barcelona really and he was always going to struggle to replace anyone in that midfield. I wish we would have signed him from Barcelona when he was still very good, unlike a few Chelsea players I don't think he has really recovered from being rubbish last season. There is the argument that Contes set up doesn't favour him at all though but I don't think that makes a massive difference.

 

[adexkola]

Had a tactically naive manager in Wenger who indulged his flaws more than Guardiola and Conte will allow. The Arsenal team was built around him. He also played in the PL at a time where it wasn't tactically as sophisticated and nuanced as it is now - most teams still played a 4-4-2, talent (especially midfielders) weren't distributed as evenly.

Since then, he's only further declined physically and shown he can't perform in systems that don't play to his strengths. So I'd say he was a very good player, but never world class and not comparable to the likes of Scholes or even Modric.

Modric wasn't someone who was recognized as world class initially because he was shunted out to the left wing due to "lacking physicality." Give him the keys to the engine room and you'll see the best midfielder in the world, something that can't be said for Fabregas at all.

Fabregas pre-Barcelona move was at times the best midfielder in the Premier League. I must have imagined the Arsenal run to the CL final in 2006 where he more than held his own against the midfields of Juventus and Madrid...

 

[adexkola]

There was a post made by someone on twitter summing up Fabregas' weaknesses and how they were exacerbated at Barcelona. Probably @FCBarca can help me find this.

 

[TheSweeper]

I think it's fair to say that certain players fit certain leagues better - as someone said - Fabregas had a bite to his game at Arsenal. This is something much more valuable in the English game. Moving to Barcelona kind of took that out of him as it was less needed & utilized. Even when he was good at Chelsea - he was far from the same player.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

I've always liked Fabregas as a player. In that period just before he joined Barcelona he was the standard for all others to be measured against in terms of penetrative passing from midfield, first touch and technique. His surprisingly good finishing was put to good use at Barcelona and later for Spain too. He was the best midfielder in the PL just before he left and arguably so again in Chelsea's 2015 league win.

He had a silly habit of nasty fouls though, weird when coupled with his relationship with the physio room. Also had a bad habit of disappearing in the second half of seasons after undisputably world class former halves.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Fabregas has been as good as any Chelsea player this season.

It's kind of funny that Cesc moved closer to the goal with age. In contrast with Scholes who moved further away from the goal.

 

[m1y2]

I could never understand how he could be a captain, he doesnt really looks like a leader, he's more a cnut than anything and at that early age at arsenal, what did they win with him btw? he's like Mata but in midfield, slow and limited movement from him but super creative and with special technique, some ppl just tire and peak quicker... He's not a good fit for the current physically demanding chelsea style which will give them a premier league title but good back up option to change things

 

[Cascarino]

When he left for Barcelona, I thought he was the best player in the premiership.

 

[AgentP]

I was a huge fan back in his Arsenal days and I genuinely believed he would be Xavi's successor in a few years. Just goes to show how little I know about football. He will still be considered one of the best midfielders in the PL. He has more than 100 assists in the PL alone and only behind Ryan Giggs in the all-time list.

 

[charlenefan]

He's not a central midfielder, give him a free role/number 10 I'm still convinced he's one of the best (better than Silva for example)

 

[duffer]

Assist machine.

If he could run he'd be one of the greats.

 

[Nighteyes]

There hasn't been a better passer of the ball in premier league history without doubt. His vision was truly outrageous. World class at Arsenal and one of the best midfielders in the world at the time.

 

[VorZakone]

Let's not give less credit to Fabregas because of the past few years. When he was at Arsenal he was really fecking good.

 

[Hojoon]

He's probably the best final passer of the ball in the PL history. It's funny how an ex-Barca youth player who so many players wanted back turned out to be the worst fit for Barca.

 

[harms]

World-class talent, even at the very young age he was, without a stretch, one of the best midfielders in the world. I preferred him deeper, like he played at first, and when Wenger moved him to the n. 10 spot his relative weaknesses (close control and the of mobility) were exposed. The move to Barca showed that he wasn't as good as Xavi and Iniesta, even though it really looked at some point that he is going to match and succeed them at Spain/Barca.

Now he struggles like Rooney, because of the ridiculous amount of games they played at the very young age. Incredible to think that he's only 29 though!

Just look at this! And Arsenal's trademark finishing

Probably the second best long distance passer in PL history after Scholes. Veron and Xabi Alonso are also somewhere around, but, imo, behind those two

 

[Hugh Jass]

Cesc is very good creative wise but lacks work ethic. Thats why Barca got rid of him.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He was fecking brilliant before his move to Barcelona.

 

[Infordin]

I still find it hard to believe he's only 29. He's been around forever it seems.

 

[BlueCelery]

He's one of the greatest passers to ever play & is still the best in the World along with Messi. His peak was in 09/10

 

[montpelier]

certainly one of the greatest complete bell-ends in premiership history

interesting thread nonetheless & a lot of very good posts already

very intelligent footy player, outstanding for finding the right pass for the situation

dunno about edge or whatever it was, just seems snarky to me, always finds himself in the middle of any kerfuffle & then whines about it

cannot stand the sight of him, but very gifted player, maybe didn't train on (even physically if that's possible / sensible to say) - maybe he got a limiting injury that we don't know about
I expected him to be more exceptional than he has been, if that makes sense either. He has had a career with Arsenal, Barca, Chelsea & Spain & isn't short of medals from it.

 

[Cutch]

Absolutely class in his early years, as good a 16-17yo centre midfielder you'll ever see. Havnt rated him the same since he left Arsenal

 

[Vato]

He's shit. Shouldn't start a single game for the Spanish NT.

 

[Jaybomb]

Better than Gerrard.

 

[Infordin]

He's shit. Shouldn't start a single game for the Spanish NT.

Was great at Euro 2008. A benchwarmer at the 2010 World Cup and played out of position at Euro 2012.

I agree that there's no way he should have ever started at Euro 2016 ahead of Koke or Thiago though. That was a sackable offense by that clown Del Bosque.

Better than Gerrard.

More talented for sure, but half the heart and half the effort.

 

[harms]

A benchwarmer at the 2010 World Cup

To be fair he assisted the golden goal

 

[Infordin]

To be fair he assisted the golden goal

Good point.

Cesc was used mostly as a sub for Xabi Alonso, while Silva was used as a sub for Pedro.

That makes you realize just how insane Spain's midfield was from 2008-2012. The best midfield ever.

 

[squiggle]

I think it's fair to say that certain players fit certain leagues better - as someone said - Fabregas had a bite to his game at Arsenal. This is something much more valuable in the English game. Moving to Barcelona kind of took that out of him as it was less needed & utilized. Even when he was good at Chelsea - he was far from the same player.

As an Arsenal fan I suppose I'm prejudiced but I'd guess that some of it was mental. After all the controversy and trauma of leaving his 'second father' to return to his childhood club to play alongside many of the other best players in the world, only to find that he couldn't fit into that team as effectively and seeing his stock slowly dwindle, then returning to one of his old team's main rivals... it would take it out of anyone.

 

[TheSweeper]

As an Arsenal fan I suppose I'm prejudiced but I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was mental. After all the controversy and trauma of leaving his 'second father' to return to his childhood club to play alongside many of the other best players in the world, only to find that he couldn't fit into that team as effectively and seeing his stock slowly dwindle, then returning to one of his old team's main rivals... it would take it out of anyone.

Yeh I was thinking along the same lines of mental strain. Most adults have maybe one or 2 opportunities in their life to make a change in direction.

Of course all of us would love to be footballers but they do come across many more interchanges in their lives coupled with a very short working career.

As an Arsenal fan what do you think might happen to bellerin if he does the same?

 

[Boycott]

He had all the qualities to be the best midfielder of his generation. Didn't hit that height but still was in the world class bracket and at such a young age at Arsenal was running the show against older, high class opponents. I would also say he joined Barca at the wrong time. He struggled in the shadow of Xavi who was clockwork at what he did - Fabregas in contrast had more flaws but a more rounded game. The comparison was unfair - I don't like the notion that you can't be a top midfielder if you don't control the game. Since then I guess you could question if the hunger is still there but more importantly his legs are facing the effects of being put in the line-up since the age of 16.

 

[do.ob]

World-class talent, even at the very young age he was, without a stretch, one of the best midfielders in the world. I preferred him deeper, like he played at first, and when Wenger moved him to the n. 10 spot his relative weaknesses (close control and the of mobility) were exposed. The move to Barca showed that he wasn't as good as Xavi and Iniesta, even though it really looked at some point that he is going to match and succeed them at Spain/Barca.

Now he struggles like Rooney, because of the ridiculous amount of games they played at the very young age. Incredible to think that he's only 29 though!

Just look at this! And Arsenal's trademark finishing

Probably the second best long distance passer in PL history after Scholes. Veron and Xabi Alonso are also somewhere around, but, imo, behind those two

Watching that video gives you a good idea why he doesn't look as great as he used to. He's (almost) literally never pressed, for a lot of his passes he can just slow down to walking pace and take aim. The game isn't played like that anymore especially on the continent.

Sahin never was as big a name as Fabregas but he's basically got the same problem (aside from being injured for the past two years).

 

[Successful]

He was really good. At an early age he played deep and learned from Vieira. I think that is reflected in his game today.

The season before he was sold to Barca he had reached the peak of his career. He had a lot of stamina and also scored a lot of goals in an advanced midfield role.

He arrived at the worst possible time at Barca. I believe they only wanted him to add quality in depth and recollect some of that DNA they like to talk so much about. Most people thought he would struggle to get into the side and he would. At last he was just sitting on the bench trying to keep warm. When Chelsea bought him he had lost everything of what made him great in the PL. He's got some vision and great touch but is far from the real Fabregas. I don't think he's useful for a club like Chelsea.

 

[Lebo]

Overrated from 2008. Fabregas was always dominated by any good opposition to be honest. I would honestly have feared 2010 arsenal more had they had a more dominant midfielder replacing fabregas like prime Essien, Modric, Shweisteiger, Vidal, Scholes, etc.
Being a great passer doesn't make you a great midfielder unfortunately. Kante and Matic aren't great passers. They still work. So did Fletcher and Carrick when the latter was heavily criticised for back and sideways passes.
A midfielder has to be an all round good footballer. It's the least specialised role in the pitch

 

[duffer]

I just checked his assists record in the premier league. He's 3rd all time despite only being 29 and playing 3 seasons abroad.

He's on 102, Rooney is on 104 and Giggs is the assist king on 131.

Doubtful if Wayne or Cesc catch Giggs but it's not really fair as Giggs played about 5,343 games.

 

[Gio]

He just hit his heights earlier in his career compared to the conventional trajectory for a central midfielder. Still produced 4-5 very good seasons with Arsenal.

 

[Boycott]

Overrated from 2008. Fabregas was always dominated by any good opposition to be honest. I would honestly have feared 2010 arsenal more had they had a more dominant midfielder replacing fabregas like prime Essien, Modric, Shweisteiger, Vidal, Scholes, etc.
Being a great passer doesn't make you a great midfielder unfortunately. Kante and Matic aren't great passers. They still work. So did Fletcher and Carrick when the latter was heavily criticised for back and sideways passes.
A midfielder has to be an all round good footballer. It's the least specialised role in the pitch

2010 Fabregas had his prime years ahead of him. He was 23 - at that age he was ahead of Modric, Scholes and Schweinsteiger.

The fact his career trajectory didn't reach those heights is irrelevant to your hypothetical argument as it's only known with hindsight.

 

[Attila]

I just checked his assists record in the premier league. He's 3rd all time despite only being 29 and playing 3 seasons abroad.

He's on 102, Rooney is on 104 and Giggs is the assist king on 131.

Doubtful if Wayne or Cesc catch Giggs but it's not really fair as Giggs played about 5,343 games.

According to the site that has Giggs on 131...he had one assist from 1992 to 1999....