How good was Riquelme?

Raees

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Some say he was better than Zidane, for me that is slightly overrating him - not in terms of ability per se but mentality wise, it isn't close. I also do not buy into the myth that we were going to sign him and he would have been a success here... I would have envisaged another Veron situation.

Having said that I really wish Pekerman hadn't taken him off in the quarter final and we see him tested against that Italian side of 2006 - The best national team player since Maradona without question.

Him vs Pirlo trying to run the show would have been beautiful to watch.

How would he fit in with the modern game and how does he compare to guys like Bruno and KDB?

@Gio @harms @Enigma_87 @Invictus @Šjor Bepo @Fortitude
 

90 + 5min

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Those who say he was better then Zidane need to watch more football.

For me, Riquelme was a very lazy player with brilliant foot / knowledge. But he was still couple of steps down from Pirlo.
 

DWelbz19

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Needed a lot of leeway and freedom of defensive/tactical responsibility from a tactical perspective, no? I believe that’s why van Gaal binned him off.
 

Enigma_87

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To me Riquelme was great to watch and one who is fun on the ball. However he lacked the motivation to be one of the best and lacked the effort too.

His lack of pace would definitely be an issue if he came to PL at the time and also now. Needed time on the ball and space to work his magic. Doesn't have the work rate in the modern game to fit the more aggressive/proactive approach of top teams.

Zidane was a big game player, whether Riquelme was fair weather one.
 

Josep Dowling

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He’s one of those cult players who was always a big fish in a small pond. Personally I think he was overrated rather than underrated.
 

frookydinho

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Absolutely loved him. You cannot compare with Zidane, Sneijder is a better comparison. Riquelme was pure joy to watch, he was elegant and had a different footballing brain to most. Should have achieved a lot more
 

Eckers99

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The ultimate hipster footballer. Plenty of talent but wasn't good enough to justify building an elite side around and he didn't achieve much (outside of a few titles with Boca Juniors).
 

Pexbo

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Would have been a flop in 00’s Premier League and a legend in 10’s Premier League.

Inb4 “too old in the 10’s”
 

Cutch

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My favourite player ever. Could watch him play all day. Would have loved him to have won the CL with Villareal and the WC with Argentina in the same year when he was the heartbeat of both sides. Fine margins that didn't go in his favour but would have defined how he was remembered
 

Invictus

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Needed a lot of leeway and freedom of defensive/tactical responsibility from a tactical perspective, no?
Yep, Riquelme possessed a lot of unfavorable traits in that he was slow to react to off-the-ball tasks, not particularly quick or press resistant, often relinquished tactical/positional responsibility, and seemed to have a haughty, labored and unaccommodating demeanor — which was antithetical to a team-oriented model. By the time he started rectifying some of the improvable characteristics in his game, particularly those relating to his mentality and sensibilities at Villarreal...to go with his sublime playmaking and tempo-dictating skills, it was already too late to rejuvenate his European career — especially at one of the elite clubs as he wasn't considered to be worth the hassle as a difference-maker.

That being said, he's a demigod in South American football, and the greatest player of the post-modern era for Boca Juniors as he played a crucial role in 3 Copa Libertadores titles, including one on his return where he was consistently a class apart and delivered back-to-back man of the match caliber performances in the finals vs. Grêmio...



The fact that coaches and fans alike got behind behind him and let him operate as a uniquely flawed but inspirational focal point must have filled him with a greater sense of responsibility, exuberance and determination vis-à-vis his European travails. The Zidane comparison is not far off in terms of certain aspects of technical skill, but the Frenchman was more well-rounded, light-footed, team-oriented and hell bent to succeed — which obviously creates a substantial gulf between the two from a generational or All-Time perspective, doubly so when you consider elite achievements.

Good video @Raees, cheers for the tag and Happy New Year (ditto everyone else)! :)
 

Lay

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One of my favourite ever players. On his day he was unbelievable. He needed a lot to show his best though. The move to Barcelona was a bad move as 1. LVG didn’t want him and made it public. 2. Barcelona didn’t play the position he was suited for. They shunted him on the wing a few times :lol:

I’d take him over Zidane on pure fanboyism.
 

Lay

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The ultimate hipster footballer. Plenty of talent but wasn't good enough to justify building an elite side around and he didn't achieve much (outside of a few titles with Boca Juniors).
3 Copa’s are pretty impressive though and will be a legend for it. From what I know, he’s more revered at Boca than Maradona. What do we expect him to achieve with Villarreal? I wished his move to Atletico went through but Atleti pulled out of the deal at the last minute

I still believe Argentina would have won the World Cup in 2006 if Pekerman didn’t bizarrely sub Riquelme off against Germany.
 

FrankDrebin

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I never forgive him for that awful penalty and performance he gave against Arsenal.
 

Garethw

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The idea that some think he was better than Zidane is utterly ridiculous.

What’s next, Paolo Di Canio was better than Ronaldinho?
 

Gio

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A throwback who needed a lot of accommodating, but when you built around him, he really caught fire as we saw at Villarreal, Boca and with Argentina. As a Rangers fan he was comfortably the best player we faced in Europe during the 2000s. He was pretty much the best number 10 around 2004-2006 IMO, in that window when the previous generation's Zidane, Figo and Rivaldo were on the wane, while the next were still coming through.
One of my favourite ever players. On his day he was unbelievable. He needed a lot to show his best though. The move to Barcelona was a bad move as 1. LVG didn’t want him and made it public. 2. Barcelona didn’t play the position he was suited for. They shunted him on the wing a few times :lol:
Agreed. For those reasons I don't think it's fair to use his stint at Barcelona as a reason why he couldn't cut it at a top team. In every way he was the anti-Van-Gaal player. And in any case Villarreal of the mid-2000s were a better side than Barcelona of the early-2000s.

My favourite player ever. Could watch him play all day. Would have loved him to have won the CL with Villareal and the WC with Argentina in the same year when he was the heartbeat of both sides. Fine margins that didn't go in his favour but would have defined how he was remembered
Aye. Argentina were basically unplayable when he was on the pitch in 2006. What football they played and it all went tits up when he was subbed against Germany.
 

TwoSheds

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A fantastic luxury player and one that wouldn't have fitted in at United I don't think. He's what Ozil wishes he was.
 

Lay

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He almost joined United. I think Fergie met him at a hotel and almost everything was sorted. Riquelme said he regrets not joining

The Mirror translated quotes from Riquelme in Mundo Deportivo: "The only thing I regret in my career was a decision that I took, when at the hotel in England before the semi-final with Arsenal, when Manchester United came to buy me and I said no. I stayed at Villarreal, because I was very comfortable with my team-mates."
Rooney was a fan

"He was brilliant for Argentina," Rooney said at a Nike launch of their new boot Total 90 Supremacy.

"I remember at half-time everyone was saying that nobody could get anywhere near him. He was fantastic."
 

RedRonaldo

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When the whole team and whole system is build around him, he is absolutely fantastic to watch. Probably the most eye-pleasing playmaking and passing game I've ever watched (when those criteria are met)
 

broccoli

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Very talented but lacked mobility to really succeed in the modern game.
 

Mb194dc

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Had 185 potential ability on the late 90s versions of championship manager iirc and was about right. Technically a brilliant player on a similar level to the likes of Zidane but lacked the mentality to be amongst the very best as others have mentioned.
 

Eriku

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Some say he was better than Zidane, for me that is slightly overrating him - not in terms of ability per se but mentality wise, it isn't close. I also do not buy into the myth that we were going to sign him and he would have been a success here... I would have envisaged another Veron situation.

Having said that I really wish Pekerman hadn't taken him off in the quarter final and we see him tested against that Italian side of 2006 - The best national team player since Maradona without question.

Him vs Pirlo trying to run the show would have been beautiful to watch.

How would he fit in with the modern game and how does he compare to guys like Bruno and KDB?

@Gio @harms @Enigma_87 @Invictus @Šjor Bepo @Fortitude
Pekerman subbing his best attacking players, with none of those subbed in being Messi, and calling it a wrap against Germany, of all sides, in a tournament on their home soil, of all things, enraged me. Argentina looked a solid bet for the trophy, and were playing gorgeous football that year.

Zidane comparisons are good, but I totally agree that he was a cut below. No shame in that, obviously.
 

FootballHQ

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Villareal was right sort of club for him in europe. They had some wonderful players at the time and lovely balance with likes of Sorin, Marcos Senna, Arraubenna and Forlan having a couple of great scoring seasons which got his career going. Good south american vibe etc and Pellegrini sort of manager who'd just give him a free role to do his stuff without much defensive responsibility.

When you look at his euro spell it was a pretty short peak. Couldn't get much of a look in at Barca even after Van Gaal left as they signed Ronaldinho straight after so he went on loan to Villareal.

05-06 was his pomp but the Arsenal penalty miss was a turning point and think he lost a bit of motivation afterwards. Left europe before he was even 30 and never returned.

Surprised he actually retired from Argentina at 30 years old. What was the story there? Fall out with Maradona when he took over in 2008 even though he was a Boca idol?

The very defintion of a mercurial player. Suprised he never played in Italy (wouldn't have worked for him in the prem).
 

manutddjw

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The catalyst of the last great Argentina team which was at Copa America 2007. Unfortunately Brazil knew it too and marked him out of the game Park on Pirlo style. If you make Brazil change their samba football for one player, you’re pretty special.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Can remember coming away from a World Cup game in 2006 thinking he’s one of the best players I’ve ever seen, think it was against Ivory Coast

Nonetheless is there a player who’s ever needed more perfect conditions to perform
 

Lay

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Villareal was right sort of club for him in europe. They had some wonderful players at the time and lovely balance with likes of Sorin, Marcos Senna, Arraubenna and Forlan having a couple of great scoring seasons which got his career going. Good south american vibe etc and Pellegrini sort of manager who'd just give him a free role to do his stuff without much defensive responsibility.

When you look at his euro spell it was a pretty short peak. Couldn't get much of a look in at Barca even after Van Gaal left as they signed Ronaldinho straight after so he went on loan to Villareal.

05-06 was his pomp but the Arsenal penalty miss was a turning point and think he lost a bit of motivation afterwards. Left europe before he was even 30 and never returned.

Surprised he actually retired from Argentina at 30 years old. What was the story there? Fall out with Maradona when he took over in 2008 even though he was a Boca idol?

The very defintion of a mercurial player. Suprised he never played in Italy (wouldn't have worked for him in the prem).
The Boca fans sided with Riquelme. He’s more of a Boca legend than Diego
 

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Riquelme is a very difficult player to get a core handle on. His moods and performance seemed to go in and out like the tide; from being unplayable to someone who didn't seem to care about getting into a game if it wasn't going his way.

An anachronistic player whose era would've been the '80's if there was some means to make the perfect setting for a skilset and archetype. Any system where he could be a #10 who did what he wanted whilst the rest of the team orbited him, would see the best of him: 3-5-2's, 4-4-2 diamonds; anything that placed him smack, bang in the middle of the attacking midfield position and expected nothing of him but to playmake and hurt the opposition.

I don't think he was ill-suited for European football, actually, far from it. I don't care the league or the reputation, an accommodated, up for it Riquelme would have been no more containable. Riquelme's personality and idiosyncracies more govern not building a team around him than his skilset and ability pitch-side. Put frankly, placing all of your trust in someone like that, with so much at stake and the requirements needed to be in place for him to truly thrive is just too risky outside of tournament football for the NT. Riquelme and perceived slights are legion, so the disruption he could cause if hooked for poor performance or even being subbed out too many times for his liking in club football at a giant, was not worth the hassle given there were more dynamic players than him who were more agreeable and less prone to the seemingly infinite lunar ups and downs of Riquelme. If you could guarantee WC '06 Riquelme in every game at club level, we're talking about a player who has few who come close, but we're not. Even the Libertadores Riquelme could be considered an outlier given absolutely everything he gravitated toward was in place for him to shine back at Boca.

I don't actually think he and Zidance have much crossover, personally. Zidane could, and did play a number of positions there and about the #10, particularly working off the left side of midfield. Riquelme would never be interchangeable with what Zidane was prepared or able to do outside of dead-centre AM.

Putting absolutely everything you are as a team into, or through one man, was the thing of the 80's and a small part of the 90's; if you were prepared to do that with Riquelme, you'd see the best of him, but the stakes are far higher and riskier than most clubs would even think about entertaining. He's one of those players who was born at the wrong time - take him back 15-20 years, and he'd be seen in a very different light to what he was and is now.

I'm not sure how exactly he is rated: do you take his achievements; his peak level of performance; his moodiness; inflexibility; failures to adapt or conform as one big package and measure it against others, or do you assess him in accordance with his technique and ability outright? As a package, he was a flawed genius, as a sum of parts, there are few even in his league in his specialist subsets. Through balls, for example, you go up to the Valderrama, Laudrup, Zico, Platini, Maradona etc. level immediately with him i.e. the very best to do it. Control of a game, the same, but unlike others he could be associated with, his dips were absolutely enormous in relative terms. So what do you do with a player like him? He's more outlier than anything else, in my opinion.
 

Tallis

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I rate Veron at his best higher than Riquelme at his best. Not a big fan of Riquelme - he hogged too much of the ball without enough of an end product and moved too slowly for my taste.
 

led_scholes

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IIRC he was instrumental for the best recent Argentina (2006). An amazing player overall but not top top class. A better and more consistent Diego (not Maradona). A player with his talent would always have an impact in football regardless of his era, although he was not close to Zidane. I think he reached his potential unlike Aimar for example.
 

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He was closer to Valeron than Zidane. A very talented player, and a joy to watch in combination with Forlan at Villareal, but very flawed at the same time.

Made me remember just how much fun the Spanish League was to watch at that time, Ronaldinho at Barca, Zidane at Real, Riquelme, Valeron, young Mata and Silva.
 
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Physiocrat

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Excellent vid @Raees

How would you build around Riquelme to maximise his assets whilst having a back up if he doesn't happen to turn it on?

I was thinking he might be best served in a lopsided 4231 with a left forward like Blokhin on the left and an attacking left back. So in possession Blokhin becomes a second striker so it is similar to a diamond but you have another genuine creator on the right wing in Figo. Instead of target man someone more like Elkjaer or Eto'o as the 9. Slow the tempo down relative to a traditional European 4231 (Figo works, not sure about Blokhin) but I think that should give him full freedom with an extra creative outlet alongside him
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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His consistency was underrated imo. Sure he was a slow player that needed tactical concessions and could take a game off, but for about an 8 year prime from 98-06 he only had the one bad season with Barca.

I think his character was more in question, where he would fall out with management, refuse to compromise positionally and sometimes get frustrated in games when things weren't working etc...and that played a part in his return to Boca from Villareal if i remember rightly.

Great player, even if not versatile.
 

RedfromIreland

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What a player. If you needed to watch a beautiful footballer play beautiful football then he was that.
I feel privileged to have seen some of the most brilliant footballers in my time and he is/was right up there amongst the best.
 

Wonder Pigeon

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There's a certain romance with players even as recent as Riquelme that's a lot rarer to find these days. You look at how stats are the be all and end all, how dismissed players who don't end up at the superclubs are and how quickly you get consigned to the banter scrap heap today, and despite his obvious talent, if he had that same career arc in the modern game, too many people would never let him out of the shadow of having failed at Barcelona.

Back then it felt like him flopping at Barca added to how admirably brilliant he was at Villareal. Likewise him returning so early to South America helped make him a legend at Boca and added to his legacy, but I feel like today he'd just be dismissed as having failed in Europe.