How have we regressed so much in eight months?

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Admins, first of all I apologise if this thread should be merged elsewhere, but I'm thinking of a specific discussion about our regression this season. How do we account for this level of failure in so short a time? Jose's first season brought two trophies; the second season we were runners up and thought we were improving, so what's happened? How have we gone so far backwards in such a short period? It feels like this is our 1989, following the second place in 1988.

Seems to me the blame lies beyond the manager alone. The board and the owners seems to be rudderless and nobody is taking control. Fergie had a grip of everything at the club and provided the leadership and focus to achieve; now it seems there is no focus and we are just a run of the mill club. Klopp seems to dominating his club in the way Fergie used to ours, with passion and a vision, whereas we look clueless.

I'm at a loss here. How do you guys account for such a dramatic slump? How have the wheels come off like this in such a short period? Can a new manager put this right, or do our problems run far deeper? I have a horrible notion that the Glazers are taking the Arsenal approach: top four means a profit, ergo all is well.

Post-Busby we learned the hard way that, once lost, the road back to the top is a long one. We can't become a sleeping giant again. Seriously worried.

 

[Massive Spanner]

We were never that good under Jose last season and Sevilla should have been a massive warning sign. Cracks were already starting to show in the latter half of the season and they've all come to the fruition this season largely due to his abhorrent attitude towards not getting the players he wanted in the summer.

 

[Minimalist]

Are we just going to ignore that we've been playing underwhelming football for all of Mourinho's reign?

Two trophies in the first season, 2nd last year - doesn't matter. We've been an awful to watch side for all it.

He got away with it and now it's coming home to roost. It's reality setting in - not regression.

Why do you think some of us thought Mourinho should have been sacked in the summer? (even if it was unrealistic)

Because it was bloody obvious this sort of season was around the corner.

 

[Skills]

It's like a disease. The symptoms were always there, and now we're full on fecked as we did feck all about it.

cnut should've been moved on this summer.

 

[montpelier]

Matic & Lukaku?

form has fallen off the edge of a cliff

given they were fairly key players, well... y'know

and everything else that's being said everywhere else can't help much either, innit? -

 

[thegaffa]

Van Gaal believed in youth and he was the right one in the long term but didn’t have the backing of the directors

 

[Borden]

We weren't good last season (better than this though, sure). 2nd was very flattering.

 

[bosnian_red]

We've been awful all calendar year. Similar to how Chelsea under Mourinho looked very good and improving for the first year and a half, and then went on a huge decline for the next calendar year where they grinded out results with terrible play for half a season and then just full on imploded.

 

[NinjaFletch]

The squad overachieved last season, we didn't really improve the squad in the summer, and now the squad is underachieving massively.

 

[AshRK]

It was coming. Many could see but our stupid board were too busy finding a tractor sponsorship.

 

[spiriticon]

Mourinho extracts all the spirit out of the players in the first few seasons and overacheive, then they run on empty after that.

It's the same everywhere he goes. It's his style of management. Burn bright, die young.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Jose is toxic and has eroded away the spirit and quality of the squad. It has been a long time coming.

 

[ABC of Football]

Ed doesn't want to sack Jose, because he will have to Pay him a big compensation package. Jose is doing everything that he can to be sacked so he doesn't leave without it. And the players cannot be bothered to play, knowing a new manager will be coming in at some point.

Its a huge mess from top to bottom of the club. Its terrible, and its the fans who have to suffer.

Most other fans will probably say United fans are just being spoilt because a lot of us have never really had to deal with the bad times. But the problem isn't dealing with the bad times, but the frustration of seeing the club we love being destroyed at every level, without a thought about how to fix the problems.

By the way we have regressed from the summer, because since Jose wasn't given the transfers he wanted, the entire team has been a mess since then.

 

[AndyJ1985]

We weren't that good last season. Many of us said as much but were shot down by the simpletons who were giddy at finishing 2nd.

We're the luckiest team in the league, both last season and this season. We almost always get outplayed but manage to score a jammy goal, or we watch as the opposition miss sitters. Even today we almost got lucky. We got absolutely destroyed but were level until 70 odd minutes thanks to a 'keeper mistake.

We've been a very poor team for a very long time. All that's happening now is Jose is in self-destruct mode.

 

[Skills]

Are we just going to ignore that we've been playing underwhelming football for all of Mourinho's reign?

Two trophies in the first season, 2nd last year - doesn't matter. We've been an awful to watch side for all it.

He got away with it and now it's coming home to roost. It's reality setting in - not regression.

Why do you think some of us thought Mourinho should have been sacked in the summer? (even if it was unrealistic)

Because it was bloody obvious this sort of season was around the corner.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are...ll-we-have-played-this-season-overall.427948/

Yeah I remember making the thread above in Mourinho's first season. Simple minded in individuals are very easy to con for a master manipulator like Mourinho but the issues were always there.

 

[Tiber]

Weren't we closed to 6th than 1st last season?

 

[Cee90]

A handful of powerful people are ruining our club.

They are not fans of Manchester United like we are.

 

[Raw]

We were never that good under Jose, we just knew how to grind out a result. Maybe a few years ago that'd work, but with the rise of attacking managers at top clubs it's completely out of place. Last season was very similar to Chelsea's title win under him, where they went ultra defensive in the latter half of the season and ground out 1 goal wins.

I reckon the wage structure being completely blown apart by the Sanchez signing must have pissed off a few players too. Not to mention Martial getting displaced for no good reason.

 

[MikeKing]

Seems to me the blame lies beyond the manager alone

It obviously does. The amount of work needed behind the scenes to catch up to our competitors has not been taken seriously, and expectations has been unfairly placed on the manager. That isn't an excuse to defend Mourinho, as any manager would have had to face the regression you are talking about. Mourinho hasn't been able to work with what he has got at all, but he has taken on an unfair amount on responsibility this season. I would like us to appoint a new manager, but if he is not backed and expected to work miracles on his own he will do a lot worse than Mourinho. The whole club needs to pull in the same direction together, it is just sad we can't get behind Mourinho because he is a great manager. Hopefully we'll get a manager we can all get behind, but I am worried the people above the manager will keep blaming the manager and not take any responsibility themselves.

 

[Minimalist]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are...ll-we-have-played-this-season-overall.427948/

Yeah I remember making the thread above in Mourinho's first season. Simple minded in individuals are very easy to con for a master manipulator like Mourinho but the issues were always there.

My post on the first page of that thread:

I think the 'good' performances have been few too many but perhaps that's just me.

Obviously I'm going against the grain there.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Mourinho philosophy doesn't work at Real and Man Utd.

 

[PoTMS]

Regression to the mean. We flukily finished second last season but as I kept repeating, Liverpool and Spurs were comfortably better teams than us despite the league showing otherwise.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Admins, first of all I apologise if this thread should be merged elsewhere, but I'm thinking of a specific discussion about our regression this season. How do we account for this level of failure in so short a time? Jose's first season brought two trophies; the second season we were runners up and thought we were improving, so what's happened? How have we gone so far backwards in such a short period? It feels like this is our 1989, following the second place in 1988.

Seems to me the blame lies beyond the manager alone. The board and the owners seems to be rudderless and nobody is taking control. Fergie had a grip of everything at the club and provided the leadership and focus to achieve; now it seems there is no focus and we are just a run of the mill club. Klopp seems to dominating his club in the way Fergie used to ours, with passion and a vision, whereas we look clueless.

I'm at a loss here. How do you guys account for such a dramatic slump? How have the wheels come off like this in such a short period? Can a new manager put this right, or do our problems run far deeper? I have a horrible notion that the Glazers are taking the Arsenal approach: top four means a profit, ergo all is well.

Post-Busby we learned the hard way that, once lost, the road back to the top is a long one. We can't become a sleeping giant again. Seriously worried.

The team wasn’t good enough to win or even compete for the league title last season.We were streets behind the best team in the league....We were woeful against Seville in the CL but Jose found a way to grind out plenty of results in the league to get us to 2nd.It was crystal clear that if we wanted to compete for the league we needed to sign 4-5 quality players....

The board let Mourinho down last season,but Jose can’t escape responsibility.He signed 2 high profile wingers(Mikhitaryan,Sanchez) and both of them failed.....He signed 2 Centre backs and both haven’t really established themselves so far...His midfield has been ridiculously inconsistent.

It’s a complete failure at all levels.But ultimately the manager needs to be accountable....Its not all his fault,but he’s certsinly failed to take us forward and for that he needs to leave next summer.A new DOF needs to be appointed along with a new manager before the start of next season..,

 

[Patrick08]

I feel mourinho is deliberately sabotaging the season wanting the sack as he was denied his players and screwing up in the process

 

[Irwin99]

It was evident in the dire mood around the club in the summer which Jose did nothing to remedy with his constant moaning.

 

[devilish]

Piss players off long enough and they stop producing for you.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Ever since we bought Sanchez and Jose got a contract extension in January, it seems to have nosedived considerably.

I don’t know whether the arrival of Sanchez upset squad members because he was on reportedly mega money or he just didn’t fit personality wise, not to mention whether Jose got sold false promises about buying players in the summer which the board subsequently denied him, causing him to go completely off the deep end.

Jose’s problem is his personality and ego and I knew this when we hired him... you’ve either got to go all in with him and he’s happy and if you even drop a small percentage of that, he will kick up a fuss as he is really stubborn.

 

[buckooo1978]

we don't have a style of play, we rely on individuals and when things stopped happening for Ibra/Pogba in season 1 we struggled - we approached the big games in a cowardly fashion

4 nil FC dried up after that pathetic approach to the game at Anfield in season 2 and we never really played well with any consistency after it. When we played well over last Christmas that momentum and balance was abandoned with the Sanchez signing and subsequent poor performances

this season we've not played well for more than a half really

no plan + no strategy + poor management + demotivated players + out of form players unstoppable = the shite we've endured

 

[Josep Dowling]

First season: We finished 6th in the league. Mourinho used the cup competitions to save his job. Starting strong teams in the league cup when most other big clubs don’t give a dam until the semi finals. The Europa League we needed to get to the Champions League. We had an incredibly easy run.

Second season: The season started really well, it went to pot the minute we were schooled at Old Trafford versus City. From that point everything has been a total disaster

Third Season: The club should have backed him and they didn’t. People can say what they want but if we got Alderweireld rather than penny pinching once again that back 4 would be a lot more solid. We should have spent £200m in the summer.

 

[Ekeke]

Terrible tactics, terrible man management, terrible transfers

 

[VeevaVee]

We improved a bit under Jose but there was never clear defined consistent improvement. We haven't regressed much, we just got found out and the players aren't responding as well. Last season was as much as I'd expect from this group of players and this season has swung the other way.

 

[andersj]

We were never that good under Jose last season and Sevilla should have been a massive warning sign. Cracks were already starting to show in the latter half of the season and they've all come to the fruition this season largely due to his abhorrent attitude towards not getting the players he wanted in the summer.

This. Table was so misleading last year!

 

[Theonas]

Our football did not really regress. We are playing the same football that relies on percentages. We try to nullify and frustrate and nick one at the other end. The biggest difference is momentum and confidence. We were relatively more confident last year and managed to do more nicking and nullifying. Now it's the opposite. But if you watched us against Liverpool, Celta, Anderlecht or Ajax 2 years ago and did not look at the score, I am not sure you would be able to tell the difference to this season's.

 

[spwd]

Basically two words, which everyone knows.

 

[Skills]

First season: We finished 6th in the league. Mourinho used the cup competitions to save his job. Starting strong teams in the league cup when most other big clubs don’t give a dam until the semi finals. The Europa League we needed to get to the Champions League. We had an incredibly easy run.

Second season: The season started really well, it went to pot the minute we were schooled at Old Trafford versus City. From that point everything has been a total disaster

Third Season: The club should have backed him and they didn’t. People can say what they want but if we got Alderweireld rather than penny pinching once again that back 4 would be a lot more solid. We should have spent £200m in the summer.

Even earlier than that. It was the cowardly way he set us up at Anfield which completely sucked the confidence out of the team.

 

[Cassidy]

Our football did not really regress. We are playing the same football that relies on percentages. We try to nullify and frustrate and nick one at the other end. The biggest difference is momentum and confidence. We were relatively more confident last year and managed to do more nicking and nullifying. Now it's the opposite. But if you watched us against Liverpool, Celta, Anderlecht or Ajax 2 years ago and did not look at the score, I am not sure you would be able to tell the difference to this season's.

Pretty much

 

[LuisNaniencia]

We were never that good under Jose last season and Sevilla should have been a massive warning sign. Cracks were already starting to show in the latter half of the season and they've all come to the fruition this season largely due to his abhorrent attitude towards not getting the players he wanted in the summer.

This is the single reason for me. He's been sulking since the summer and has killed all sense of teamwork, motivation and joy within the team.

 

[devilish]

First season: We finished 6th in the league. Mourinho used the cup competitions to save his job. Starting strong teams in the league cup when most other big clubs don’t give a dam until the semi finals. The Europa League we needed to get to the Champions League. We had an incredibly easy run.

Second season: The season started really well, it went to pot the minute we were schooled at Old Trafford versus City. From that point everything has been a total disaster

Third Season: The club should have backed him and they didn’t. People can say what they want but if we got Alderweireld rather than penny pinching once again that back 4 would be a lot more solid. We should have spent £200m in the summer.

We've spent 72m in defence and yet he still wants a CB. We spent 180m in CM and yet according to Mou we lack bite + he cant find space for his two most expensive signings there. The club desperately needs a DOF but lets not try to shift the blame solely on the club. The manager is messing up big time.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Admins, first of all I apologise if this thread should be merged elsewhere, but I'm thinking of a specific discussion about our regression this season. How do we account for this level of failure in so short a time? Jose's first season brought two trophies; the second season we were runners up and thought we were improving, so what's happened? How have we gone so far backwards in such a short period? It feels like this is our 1989, following the second place in 1988.

Seems to me the blame lies beyond the manager alone. The board and the owners seems to be rudderless and nobody is taking control. Fergie had a grip of everything at the club and provided the leadership and focus to achieve; now it seems there is no focus and we are just a run of the mill club. Klopp seems to dominating his club in the way Fergie used to ours, with passion and a vision, whereas we look clueless.

I'm at a loss here. How do you guys account for such a dramatic slump? How have the wheels come off like this in such a short period? Can a new manager put this right, or do our problems run far deeper? I have a horrible notion that the Glazers are taking the Arsenal approach: top four means a profit, ergo all is well.

Post-Busby we learned the hard way that, once lost, the road back to the top is a long one. We can't become a sleeping giant again. Seriously worried.

We wasted the summer and are paying for it. Its that simple

 

[hobbers]

Combination of a lot of different factors really.

1. Our shit squad chocked full of mediocrity and players with no backbone. Caused by poor signings/no signings by SAF in his last few seasons, not addressing obvious problem areas. Then total indecision under Moyes. Then a scatter-gun approach under LVG. This issue obviously existed before Mourinho, but he's done nothing to address it, besides...

2. Signing short term "fixes" to the above. Ibrahimovic and Matic the most obvious examples. Players who are on a timer the moment they kick a ball for the club, and...

3. Signing big name stars without having a solid foundation in place. It doesn't matter how many Sanchez's, Mkhitaryan's, Di Maria's or Pogba's that Woody goes out to sign. If the spine of the team is shit then they are never going to have enough of a platform to perform to expectations, especially when you go for known fair-weather superstars who are mentally weak. Which is the other half of the issue, not putting any thought at all into the character of the players we sign or whether they'll fit into the (currently non-existent) system. Signing Lukaku, the sort of player SAF wouldn't touch with a barge pole, even on a free transfer. Another obvious mistake was signing two young, inexperienced centrebacks without a top quality partner to pair them with and bed them in.

4. All of the match-winning, title-winning nous drained out of the squad and has never been replaced aside from the above mentioned stop gaps like Ibra and Matic.

5. Mourinho's third-season-syndrome. He's so abrasive and toxic when things aren't going his way. This accumulates and eventually enough of the squad are so sick of him he's rendered totally ineffectual at motivating them.