predator
Youth NITK
Just rewatched it on motd. Cannot believe not one of our players spotted it in real time and made a fuss.
Not that it is their duty as a footballer but still.
Not that it is their duty as a footballer but still.
"If you weren't there when I tackled you it wouldn't have been a free kick."I think it's because if it wasn't gonna touch CHO's hand then it would have touched Greenwoods.
Klopps put the kibosh on us being treated fairly by refs or var now.You telling me that Odois arm was in a natural position?
He has actively bent his arm so it is closer to the ball, how anyone can claim otherwise is baffling.
I mean it’s not like Greenwood is jostling with CHO or they are in a tangle of players, they run some two separate positions and his arm is above his shoulder for no reason. His hand then touches the ball which stops Greenwood from gaining possession, if CHO isn’t there, Greenwood’s arm isn’t in that position anyway.What do you mean you don't get it was a tustle? They were both tustling over the ball?
It’s clear it is CHO who handled it first, rather than Greenwood. People are focussing on it because it is a very obvious handball bizarrely not given, despite the referee having the benefit of VAR telling him to review.50/50. Both had arms up and it looks like either one is the perpetrator depending on the angle.
I think people are overly focussing on it because without that being given, we failed to create one good chance all game.
For those that don’t know that FIFA as well as publishing the laws of football and yes you have correctly copied law 12, they also publish another document that goes into more detail as to what the refs should take into account.It is an offence if a player:
- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
- scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
- after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
- scores in the opponents’ goal
- creates a goal-scoring opportunity
- touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
- the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
- the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm
case closed.
You mean where he was clearly trod on? That really hurts when you get stood on like that.Maybe see it as karma after Rashford's dive in the Newcastle match.
Yeah yesterday was a tough one for players to see but generally we're terrible at allowing other teams to influence the ref while we turn muteJust rewatched it on motd. Cannot believe not one of our players spotted it in real time and made a fuss.
Not that it is their duty as a footballer but still.
According to the rules that were set for penalty box handballs, it's a clear as day penalty. I'm glad its finally front page on the BBC but Ole needs to be more forceful on these things, its not a questionable decision in any way. It's two or three games now where these decisions have cost us. The points add up.
The PL statement basically passes the blame 100% on to the referee and confirms he bottled it. They usually back the referee and explain the decision. This time they just said he 'stuck with his original decision' i.e. he got it wrong but didn't change it.
Greenwood can put his arms where he wants if he doesnt handball it?50/50. Both had arms up and it looks like either one is the perpetrator depending on the angle.
I think people are overly focussing on it because without that being given, we failed to create one good chance all game.
In reality, how often do you see handballs where the player has clearly and intentionally moved their arm/hand towards the ball? Majority of penalties are given because the hand is in an unnatural position.For those that don’t know that FIFA as well as publishing the laws of football and yes you have correctly copied law 12, they also publish another document that goes into more detail as to what the refs should take into account.
Here’s what they say in handball
Handling the ball
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
Like the vast majority of supporters I want to see diving, gamesmanship, ie conning the ref, outlawed and punished, but the same goes for off field gamesmanship too like managers trying to influence referees decision making. VAR should be used to review every incident where a player has dived or appeared to dive. The result of the match cannot be altered but the player, if found guilty of cheating, should be punished with a huge fine, a month or more wages. its not right to punish a whole team for one players stupidity, though if he continues doing it then the club should be punished by being docked points. VAR could,if the FA had the guts to use it in this manner, stop all forms of cheating but they only seem to use VAR to decide whether or not a player was offside or not by the tiniest, most irelevant distance.Maybe see it as karma after Rashford's dive in the Newcastle match.
I think it's unclear if Greenwood's motion pushes CHO's arm towards the ball. CHO definitely makes contact, but whether his arm is in an unnatural position of his own volition is less clear.Greenwood can put his arms where he wants if he doesnt handball it?
That's unfair on VAR this time. It was the on-field referee who didn't give it in real time. VAR, correctly, told him to check it out, he took a look at the replay and still didn't give it. It's all on Attwell.We’ve been fecked over by VAR again.
I really want to see a defender tackle someone by throwing a boot at the ball from meters away.• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
Can you please remind me incident where this happen after VAR introduce?If I was the ref I’d have given it I reckon. That said, it would be a close call, and those that are suggesting it’s some kind of cast iron penalty that would be given 10 times out of 10 if it was a Utd player in Utd’s area are simply wrong IMHO.
It is, and I find that quite concerning because VAR is the biggest change that's happened in football since the back pass rule and yet we still find ourselves constantly discussing situations that ultimately are decided on how the referee is feeling that day.That's unfair on VAR this time. It was the on-field referee who didn't give it in real time. VAR, correctly, told him to check it out, he took a look at the replay and still didn't give it. It's all on Attwell.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Funny thing is, those 2 pens were contentious / soft (thought the Rashford one was a pen and the Martial one wasn't)Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I agree. Yeah, by current rules it should be a penalty but that just means rules are dumb in my view. Penalties should be given for clear fouls in the box and handballs with intent that prevent goalscoring opportunities. In this one it was clearly an accidental handball, which would have been Greenwood's handball had CHO taken his arm away, and it prevented literally nothing.That's that a penalty, come on.. that's desperate. The ball is moving away from the goal at the corner of the box.
I'd be ashamed if we had won with that penalty.
It's more annoying that they keep saying we get loads of penalties, when actually we get the same as other teams. It's the fact if our manager or players say something, they will be asked to explain themselves, when Chelsea can intimidate referees with no come back. Klopp and his spawny captain can say what the hell they like with no comeback. Ole is a gentleman, but Klopp can scream in officials faces and nothing happens.Funny thing is, those 2 pens were contentious / soft (thought the Rashford one was a pen and the Martial one wasn't)
Thinking back, apart from yesterday, have we been denied any stonewall/good shouts for a pen? Think maybe there was one on Fred a few months back... Other then that it's mainly been decisions that have /haven't cancelled goals that haven't fallen our way.
Yeah, this is my biggest issue at the moment. Even with VAR, it often feels like that if they decided these contentious calls with a coin toss, it really wouldn't be any more random. In the referees' defence: it's absolute chaos when it comes to this issue. We had an effing rule change in the middle of the season, and there seems to be no consistent guidelines for the application of the laws of the game.It is, and I find that quite concerning because VAR is the biggest change that's happened in football since the back pass rule and yet we still find ourselves constantly discussing situations that ultimately are decided on how the referee is feeling that day.
I personally think that referees should not officiate on what they, personally, think should be the rules. Personally, I despise the changing of the handball rule, which incidentally gave Liverpool the CL two years ago. But even more important is that there isn’t different rules for different games, or worse, for different teams. An honest refereeing mistake, I could live with. But referees who don’t actually know the rules they’re upholding, and instead judge on what they personally feel, that makes me cranky. Which this ref by his own words did.I personally think that this kind of incident should lead to an indirect free kick unless the referee determine that there is clear intent in which case a penalty/direct free kick and a card should be the sanction. But yeah, the rules say that it was an offence and therefore a penalty.
I think the only way VAR works long-term is for us to be able to listen to the referees thought process as we can and do in Rugby matches. Mic them up, only let the captains approach them and let us hear everything that is being discussed, and crucially we must have the referees explain their decisions while they are making them.Yeah, this is my biggest issue at the moment. Even with VAR, it often feels like that if they decided these contentious calls with a coin toss, it really wouldn't be any more random. In the referees' defence: it's absolute chaos when it comes to this issue. We had an effing rule change in the middle of the season, and there seems to be no consistent guidelines for the application of the laws of the game.
For this particular case, under current rules it should absolutely be a penalty but I'm with those who suggest an indirect free-kick for cases like this. Because ultimately, the punishment has to fit the crime to a certain extent.
I think it admirably to try to view things like this in a neutral light Even if you support one of the teams. It’s frustrating, though, because every replay shows that CHO lifts his hand AND connects with the ball before Greenwood comes into touch with him.I understand why it wasn't given. Greenwood and Odoi were pushing each other, so technically his arm was in a natural position when the ball strikes his hand.
I don't really think it is much of an issue, to be honest.
This is just one of the ways that VAR isn’t fit for purpose. The VAR referee has much longer to review the footage (without Chelsea twats distracting him) so he should make absolutely sure that the on-field referee doesn’t miss something obvious. If that ever happens it’s a failure of the system.That's unfair on VAR this time. It was the on-field referee who didn't give it in real time. VAR, correctly, told him to check it out, he took a look at the replay and still didn't give it. It's all on Attwell.
I agree. If Ole does one thing this pre season it should be to get Roy Keane and Jaap Stam in to show the team how to appeal for and debate a decision with the ref.Yeah yesterday was a tough one for players to see but generally we're terrible at allowing other teams to influence the ref while we turn mute