How much of Ole's success is Mourinho's?

[tony54]

Well he brought in Dalot,Lindelof,Pogba,Fred and Lukaku so thats something he should be credited with. He also helped develop Rashford and Mctominay
People may not like the man and whilst he drastically underachived during his tenure here he has built a pretty good squad with strength and depth that is possibly one or two signings away from a serious title challenge and dare i say it success in europe.

A really good question by Red Comet. I immediately thought my answer would be ' SFA' but on reflection and reading the replies it is clear he did do some good things. The players in the quote above are all starting to perform well NOW and he did bring some good silverware. But his style of football was so negative and his manner so morose that no team could prosper with him in charge. Oly is light years ahead in tactics and his character is and has always been impecable which has gelled the team and the club. The noticeable difference in tactics is that we are playing in a much more advanced position and the team spirit is much improved.
I think Mourinho should be credited with some of the improvements we are seeing today and he won silverware, whereas Oly as yet hasn't but the football has been fantastic - watch this space.

 

[KM]

Bollocks, we don't really play attacking football especially against a team superior than us, the win against Spurs, Arsenal, draw vs Liverpool and yesterday was a very Mourinho-esque performance , He would be proud seeing his philosophy is still being implemented after he left. What Ole brought to us is simply a good positive vibe that enable the player to play to their full potential.

Yes but we do play attacking football against a team inferior to us which wasn't the case under Jose.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

If mou wasn't so destructive and incompetent then ole would have never managed us. That's all

This is it in a nutshell.
Jose had everything going for him here but ,yet again, its his self destructive attitude that brings the whole thing tumbling down..

 

[Balljy]

I think the days of players getting just inspired by such things are gone.

Judging by recent history if you've got the money, you get the players. I don't think the manager has much pulling power. It could be argued that Mou is building quite a case for players that absolutely won't play under him though.

 

[izec]

0.1%

 

[coolredwine]

0

 

[Greck]

The defense proving they aren't as bad as Jose convinced fans shouldn't now be to Mourinho's credit. Otherwise everyone who fecked up in history would be given credit for the accomplishment of the next guy who cleaned up their mess.

 

[ohhrooney]

What a joke of a thread. Better still, How much of Ole's success is LVG's success? Even better, Moyes's success?

 

[OT1214]

McTominay’s contribution is probably the only thing that Mourinho can take credit for. Zero credit for everything else.

 

[Volumiza]

Bollocks, we don't really play attacking football especially against a team superior than us, the win against Spurs, Arsenal, draw vs Liverpool and yesterday was a very Mourinho-esque performance , He would be proud seeing his philosophy is still being implemented after he left. What Ole brought to us is simply a good positive vibe that enable the player to play to their full potential.

I disagree ... under Jose, not only did we NOT attack, we also looked like we COULDN'T attack. Nothing Mourinho-esque about Wednesday's (or many other days since he's gone) performance at all. Now we attack as much as possible and defend with our life when needed. More Fergie-esque if you ask me. Anyone who thinks SAF just attacked and Jose just defended are wrong.

 

[Rolaholic]

Been hilarious seeing how the goalposts have been shifted

When Jose couldn't get the most out of his own signings, you had certain fans adamantly arguing that certain players had been 'forced' on him by the club. Now that someone else is getting the most out of those players, it's because Jose left him with a good squad and he deserves the credit

 

[breakout67]

Been hilarious seeing how the goalposts have been shifted

When Jose couldn't get the most out of his own signings, you had certain fans adamantly arguing that certain players had been 'forced' on him by the club. Now that someone else is getting the most out of those players, it's because Jose left him with a good squad and he deserves the credit

This is bollocks of the highest order. There were plenty of fans saying that Jose's signings were horrible and we were in a mess because of him. Shock horror there are different opinions on a forum, nothing to do with shifting goal posts. I said countless times that we have a good squad, there is no shifting of goalposts for me, that is exactly why I wanted him sacked, we should be good enough to be in the top 4 not 7th place!

 

[Brightonian]

The absolute catastrophic shiteness of Mourinho at the end has probably helped Solskjaer simply by dint of comparison.

Otherwise no.

 

[RedPed]

Waiting for LvG's philosophy to creep in there somewhere too.

 

[Rolaholic]

This is bollocks of the highest order. There were plenty of fans saying that Jose's signings were horrible and we were in a mess because of him. Shock horror there are different opinions on a forum, nothing to do with shifting goal posts. I said countless times that we have a good squad, there is no shifting of goalposts for me, that is exactly why I wanted him sacked, we should be good enough to be in the top 4 not 7th place!

There is no need to take such offense if you weren't of that train of thought then is there...

Plenty of people believed that the performances under a finished manager were indicative of many of the players quality and judged many to be flops when it's since been proved not to be the case under other managers and for country

 

[Ferginolol]

Zero. None.

 

[Trophy Room]

I think Mourinhos biggest influence on this team was that he bought well and raised the overall quality of the squad. I give him credit for that. He just couldn’t get them to play to their potential. Ole is doing this.

 

[davidmichael]

Three of the first choice back three (Young, Smalling and Shaw) were signed before Jose as was our keeper and our whole defensive structure and system now is completely different to how it was under Jose.

The only thing Jose could get credit for was signing Lindelof although Jose nearly ruined Lindelof and Lindelof found form when Jose was forced into playing Lindelof due to injuries, giving Jose credit for Ole’s work is like blaming Sir Alex for Moyes work or lack of.

 

[Water Melon]

None. Hope the toxic fecker goes to either Madrid or PSG and we face him again in CL next season.

 

[AshRK]

I thank jose for dalot. In dalot we have signed a gem who has full potential to be a great full back in years to come.

 

[Cloud7]

Been hilarious seeing how the goalposts have been shifted

When Jose couldn't get the most out of his own signings, you had certain fans adamantly arguing that certain players had been 'forced' on him by the club. Now that someone else is getting the most out of those players, it's because Jose left him with a good squad and he deserves the credit

I remember this as well. Any player that wasn’t doing well magically became a Woodward signing that was forced on Mourinho Near the end of his tenure you would struggle to say he actually had any input in signing anyone, were you to believe a lot of posts on here.

So which is it? Were they Mourinho signings or Woodward signings

 

[Cloud7]

None. Hope the toxic fecker goes to either Madrid or PSG and we face him again in CL next season.

Nothing would make me happier than for Ole to smash a Jose led team, with goals from Pogba and Martial, immediately followed by Pogba dancing on the field and posting a video of it on Instagram.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

First of, I want to be clear that I'm one who was strongly against Mourinho's appointment. In fact, I had not been posting ever since he was made manager, not even when we won the "treble". To me, Mourinho is the
antithesis of what Man Utd is, and I'm relieved as anyone when he was finally sacked.

Our recent victories where we won with less possession and less shots has elicit a lot of comments on the irony of it, that Ole's team are more success at Mourinho's football than Mourinho is at Utd.

This struck me - how much of the current defensive organisation and solidity is down to Mourinho, which Ole inherited?

Case in point, when Roberto Martinez took over Everton from Moyes back in 2013, his first season was seen as a huge success. Everton while still being solid defensively, which is a hallmark of Moyes' reign, were now also good at moving the ball forward. Everton finished that season above us for the 1st time ever since EPL started. I remembered people also using this to deride Moyes for holding Everton back (given how shite Moyes were for us during that season).

However subsequently, Martinez's Everton began to fall apart in the following seasons. It soon became apparent that Martinez has inherited a team that was very well drilled in defensive play by Moyes. Once the Martinez has fully changed Everton to his style, it was very clear that his Everton were an exact mirror of Martinez's Wigan - exciting going forward but porous at the back.

So this comes back to my title - how much of our current defensive play is down to the remnants of Mourinho's training? Will Ole be truly tested (god damn I hate myself for typing this) once he has a full preseason with the team?

Our defenders were all playing horribly under Mourinho.Mourinho had a good overall defensive structure,but the players were playing horrendously under him.Lindelof and Shaw were struggling under him,none of the other defenders were playing better...So no,I don’t think it’s got anything to do with Mourinho at all.I actually still think that we are vulnerable at the back...We need new defenders this summer,no question about that...

 

[simon2727]

Well the only sense I can make out from here is....

Ole success due to mourinho.. mourinho success due to Lvg... Lvg success due to Moyes... Moyes success due to saf...

So to simplified it... ole's success is due to saf.... aint gonna argue with that...

 

[Water Melon]

Nothing would make me happier than for Ole to smash a Jose led team, with goals from Pogba and Martial, immediately followed by Pogba dancing on the field and posting a video of it on Instagram.

You took it to another level. Bravo, Sir!

 

[breakout67]

There is no need to take such offense if you weren't of that train of thought then is there...

Plenty of people believed that the performances under a finished manager were indicative of many of the players quality and judged many to be flops when it's since been proved not to be the case under other managers and for country

I see this all the time, posters acting as if there is a collective group think, and start mixing up opinions. I'm sure it'd be quite straight forward to find posters that believed that certain players were 'forced' who made a U-turn and said that these same players were good signings by Jose.

I personally find this idea that players are forced on managers ludicrous. Which player would fit this bill? Certainly not Pogba who was undroppable for 1.5 seasons. If a player is forced on a manager they just bench them and play them sporadically.

 

[dmode]

Bollocks, we don't really play attacking football especially against a team superior than us, the win against Spurs, Arsenal, draw vs Liverpool and yesterday was a very Mourinho-esque performance , He would be proud seeing his philosophy is still being implemented after he left. What Ole brought to us is simply a good positive vibe that enable the player to play to their full potential.

Ohhh come on... it's nicer watching us play up front now. See the scores.

 

[Man of Leisure]

What a weird idea for a thread.

 

[Borden]

People are very reluctant to accept Jose's good points. He would have won the league in his second season but for City having a freakishly good season. He obviously instilled a discipline in players that they still benefit from. He also eventually made them miserable and useless, so that a massive bounce would occur the moment he left. Exactly like at Chelsea.

It's quite clear Ole benefited from all that.

There's been 26 seasons in the PL era. We finished on 81 points last season, which would've yielded a PL title in only 5 (6 if you bettered Leicester's goal difference in 2015/16) of those 26 seasons (3 of those in the 90's). So no, it did not take a 'freakishly good season' to beat our points total (which some of us also argued flattered to deceive given our performances).

 

[dmode]

A really good question by Red Comet. I immediately thought my answer would be ' SFA' but on reflection and reading the replies it is clear he did do some good things. The players in the quote above are all starting to perform well NOW and he did bring some good silverware. But his style of football was so negative and his manner so morose that no team could prosper with him in charge. Oly is light years ahead in tactics and his character is and has always been impecable which has gelled the team and the club. The noticeable difference in tactics is that we are playing in a much more advanced position and the team spirit is much improved.
I think Mourinho should be credited with some of the improvements we are seeing today and he won silverware, whereas Oly as yet hasn't but the football has been fantastic - watch this space.

Spot on! Should give some credits to LVG too.

 

[roonster09]

Bollocks, we don't really play attacking football especially against a team superior than us, the win against Spurs, Arsenal, draw vs Liverpool and yesterday was a very Mourinho-esque performance , He would be proud seeing his philosophy is still being implemented after he left. What Ole brought to us is simply a good positive vibe that enable the player to play to their full potential.

fecking hell, there are people who still think all Ole did was to bring positive vibe.

 

[Ish]

Froget Mourinho. @santiagokinderbueno

He's still somewhere, in a white room, muttering how Ole's success is all down the foundations laid by LvG. Ditto both Spain and Germany's WC successes.

 

[Ish]

Bollocks, we don't really play attacking football especially against a team superior than us, the win against Spurs, Arsenal, draw vs Liverpool and yesterday was a very Mourinho-esque performance , He would be proud seeing his philosophy is still being implemented after he left. What Ole brought to us is simply a good positive vibe that enable the player to play to their full potential.

We found Paul Ince's Caf account.

 

[Ali Dia]

LVG did buy Martial, Shaw and Herrera! He gave Lingard a lot of time. He also played Rashford when we had everyone out with injuries and it worked! Foundations!

Mourinho did buy Lukaku, Pogba, Matic and Lindelöf! He also didn't sell any amazing players really so didn't feck the squad up! Foundations!

By all accounts the club signed martial shaw and Herrera. I think Jose had a much better idea of what a Manchester United player should be. LVG was trying to take us in a different direction that didn’t work out. Still, Props for blooding lingard Rashford and martial.

 

[Canagel]

Nothing.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Mourinho was the wrong man for United. But lets not pretend he doesn't have a huge knowledge of the game.

I think he's had a breakdown and has serious on-going mental health issues, in combination with a narcissistic personality disorder. I think his mental state deteriorated in Madrid and he never recovered. He's erratic and cannot build or maintain personal relationships (this has brought his downfall at three clubs now).

His football knowledge allows him to highlight the right signings (Lukaku, Fred, Pogba, Lindeloff) but once he signs them he can't work with them appropriately. He also identified talent in certain academy players, but instead of nurturing them he used them as pawns in his schemes.

So I think Ole can thank Mourinho for the players he brought to United because he undoubtedly improved the squad in comparison to what he had when he took over from LVG.

 

[GM K]

Massive credit to Ole. Take nothing away from him but to respond to the OP, Mourinho signed Lindelof, signed Dalot, stuck to Young and admit it or not, brought Luke Shaw back to life. He also signed Matic to shield the defence and brought McT to the first team to do the same. Easy to forget that prior to the start of this season, this team was actually the second best in the country.
I am not sure about Ole's technical competence and contributions yet but he is certainly a damn good man manager and motivator so far.

 

[RedSky]

I'd say a decent amount but not significant enough.

Can't imagine us pulling off a Pogba signing without someone like Jose in charge.

Lindelof started being good at the end of Jose's reign too.

We were not the only ones interested in Lukaku, so Jose might have a hand there as well.

At least from a squad point of view, he deserves credit.

From a footballing point of view, not so much.

I'd agree with this. I think he's helped with the development of some of the players, not from an attacking perspective, but from the mental side. We were able to come back into games from being behind during Jose' time at the club, we won trophies under him.

 

[glazed]

There's been 26 seasons in the PL era. We finished on 81 points last season, which would've yielded a PL title in only 5 (6 if you bettered Leicester's goal difference in 2015/16) of those 26 seasons (3 of those in the 90's). So no, it did not take a 'freakishly good season' to beat our points total (which some of us also argued flattered to deceive given our performances).

We casually dropped points at the end IIRC, once second place was secured. And they played ugly football. But the table doesn't lie. That was a successful team that could have won the league in a good year.

I'm glad Jose is gone, but it's silly to pretend nothing he did was ever positive. He bought Paul Pogba ffs. If everything he did was so terrible then why is one of coaches (Carrick) still at the club? We need to get away from the extreme positions on everything. Otherwise at some point Ole will have a bad run and everyone will start demanding his head too.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

How is this even a discussion